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Judgment of the Prosperity Gospel
Living under God's blessing is NOT the same as the prosperity gospel that is being taught in today's world. There will come a day when God will judge the prosperity gospel. In following such teachings, we are letting the Light of Jesus grow dim. Consider this: The devil knows how to bless too. America is being blinded . The churches are blinded. Men are refusing to hear the council of God. Why is this? Where does the believer stand spiritually? Where do we stand with Jesus?
We must call the church (the body of Christ) to repentance because we have hid the Light of Christ.
1 Samuel 3:1-3
1And the child Samuel ministered unto the LORD before Eli. And the word of the LORD was precious in those days; there was no open vision.
2And it came to pass at that time, when Eli was laid down in his place, and his eyes began to wax dim, that he could not see;
3And ere the lamp of God went out in the temple of the LORD, where the ark of God was, and Samuel was laid down to sleep;
1 Samuel 2:29
29Wherefore kick ye at my sacrifice and at mine offering, which I have commanded in my habitation; and honourest thy sons above me, to make yourselves fat with the chiefest of all the offerings of Israel my people?
God will judge sin. The light IS going out in the church.
We have allowed wrongs. We've failed to keep the light burning. The dead don't worship God. Our light is not shining. Somebody has got to turn the light back on. We must be watchmen to stand against such nonsense. To stand against the gospel of greed. It seems we want to take the best and give God the rest.
The benefits of God are far greater than the benefits of sin. We must preach the truth that the Light of Christ will shine and darkness will be exposed. Woe to you who are blind, naked, destitute. It's time to Rise Up, turn the light back on. You are the light of the world.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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Hello Robert,
It is great to have you here. We always rejoice with new family in Christ and their contributions. I like what you have brought up because you have spoken much truth and it balances the message. So may angles to the majority of biblical topics. A five minute video cannot give justice to what anyone believes. John Pipper is a great teacher who teaches almost word for word what you have stated above. Here he is expressing his hate towards a false Gospel, which I too share. A gospel that harms millions.
John and other teachers do specify what you have stated above in a regular basis in actual sermons. Here again the focus was on the damage this false gospel has on many. It is true that we do not have to go through horrible ordeals, trials and tribulation to bring God glory. We do not attained wisdom only through failures, but true wisdom is the ability to learn from the many examples we find in the word, so we do not make the same mistakes. We also learn from mature Christians who are walking in holiness. Yes, we serve a good God, a compassionate God. He is beautiful. He does hate false doctrine though. Jesus was a perfect man, He had a perfectly balance life. He could pick up a child and laugh with him and also pick up a whip and drive those who were turning his house into a den of thieves. We are not Jesus; I do realize that, but zeal and passion for purity in the body is what I believe creates this sort of short message.
Satan told God (paraphrasing here) "of course Job serves you, why wouldn't he? You have your protection all around him" So God said very well... etc.
Job brought much Glory to God by saying "God gives and takes away, blessed be the name of the Lord."
Can a believer bring Glory to God by prospering in the spirit and in all other areas, of course? I think though that some of the beauty of Christianity is how we can have peace while things are falling apart, Joy thru it all and no fear even through the valley of death. Now, do we always want to be in trouble or in trials, nope? We love God because He is good.
Hopefully the vid below gives you a different view of this servant of the Lord.
>>He does not hate anybody.
Psalm 5:5
The boastful shall not stand in Your sight;You hate all workers of iniquity
Psalm 11:5
The LORD tests the righteous,But the wicked and the one who loves violence His soul hates.
Is ok for us to hate false Gospels and evil as well.
Psalm 31:6
I have hated those who regard useless idols;But I trust in the LORD.
Psalm 101:3
I will set nothing wicked before my eyes;I hate the work of those who fall away; It shall not cling to me.
Proverbs 8:13
The fear of the LORD is to hate evil; Pride and arrogance and the evil way And the perverse mouth I hate.
I could paste many more scriptures but these ones will suffice. Thank you for helping me balance the topic through your post.
Blessing bro.
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Permalink Reply by forgiven on
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Thanks John, the second video was a little easier to take for an introduction. Soory I might have jumped in and assumed things. To me the prosperity gospel is not much different than the 'Barbie doll' syndrome. (:
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Well yes she does, I am just trying to keep her out of un neccessary trouble. (:
it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. Acts 9:5 -
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Mary -
It's me again. I truly hope you don't think I am after you for your statements. Because you are actually bringing up some excellent points, which give me the opportunity to expand on some other angles of the topics you raise. So please do not think I am after correcting you or anything like that.
When I read your latest post the following scripture came to my mind.
John 13:35 (New International Version)
35 By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."
Again what I am about to write is not to refute what you wrote but to hopefully enhance it. God gives pastors a zeal for doctrinal purity and in the bible we see Jesus and the apostles dealing with erroneous teachings extremely harsh. I am not telling people here to become followers of John Pipper, I have a great love and respect for the courageousness of such men, to step up to the plate and speak up on doctrines that hurt the people of God. In the bible we read verses by Paul, John and Peter dealing with teachers that deviated from the pure milk of the word with harsh words, so we have biblical precedence to respond as John did. I listen to a lot of ministries via radio and have seen them preach well balance sermons about the topic at hand where they do asked the congregation to pray that God change these men. They hold such prominent plateaus that one can only hope they would turn from their error and teach sound doctrine. Such teachings however need to be exposed. Not everyone is called to do that.
I love reading your post because you are an action driven daughter of God. I just read your post on another thread of how God gave you a word to give to a couple today. So I respect you dearly and look forward to reading what you share. I am here only trying to balance the situation by saying that we can pray for them and love them, but there comes a time that some in the body, especially those called to be pastors, elders etc, when they are commanded by God to speak up and expose teachings that drive so many stray. I am very familiar with the prosperity Gospel myself being that I listened to the teachers of such for many years and I do pray that God would work in their hearts, as I am sure John does as well. Again I am not trying to tell people here follow this man or this other one. Just trying to help us see that what they are commanded to do is scriptural. We are a dynamic body, a living organism and we should at least understand that each member is call for a specific task. Check this other vid of him confronting our president. Every sermon this guys preach does not have to do with exposing false teachers, for the most they spend their lives teaching sound doctrine, but at times produce this short vids. Honestly what they are doing is in the bible, but we are not all to do such work.
I personally thank God for men who are willing to do the hard work to speak the truth in love. I know it does not appear at times in short messages to be love, but those called to do such work know how hard it is to go against what will appear to many to be wrong and judgmental.
In love your bro. -
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Dear Mary -
I understand your statement but would like to expand on a thought here.
Ministers of the Gospel will eat from their labor as I am sure you are aware and agree. Paul said that if they give you spiritual things why not give them material things. There is however a huge difference between being blessed by God for preaching the biblical Gospel and making money out of teaching a distorted version. Also there is a difference between dressing in nice apparel and being extravagant, as well as disclosing your financial statements to the public and keeping them close. One is accountable the other is not.
Just my thoughts sis.
Luv you.
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Permalink Reply by JB on
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I love every body here, and have no intentions of offending anyone or to condemn their convictions, but I would just like to know how you look at these scriptures, in the old and new testaments?
Especially for those that believe in just a spiritual healing and just having your own needs met and barely getting by, and having nothing to give to others.
And I would like a good definition of “Suffering for Christ sake”
I think some feel anytime they get sick and they endure it, they are suffering for His sake; when all the time it is because they over ate or ate something that didn’t agree with them. Or because of their own negligence.
I love this Proverb 26:2 “As the bird by wandering, as the swallow by flying, so the curse causeless shall not come“.
Luke 6:37-38 (KJV)
37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.
And also Deut. 28:1-14
I wonder if this actually applies to us as well?
Though all the verses are good, but look at the 11th, 12th, and 13th verses.
Sounds like He wants to bless us with plenty. I do realize that a lot of the prosperity preachers go a little over board sometime, but it is not my place to judge them, only for myself, whether I want to listen to them or not, but not to run them down by condemning them to others, they will be judged by God, not man. Even those that do the condemning.
I just want to stand on His promises, live the life and let others judge whether I am in the faith or not.
I love what Paul said in 1Cor.2 “and I my brethren when I came to you , I came not with Excellency of speech, or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God, for I determined not to know anything among you save Jesus Christ and Him crucified, For I was with you in weakness and fear and much trembling, and my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man’s wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, that your faith should not stand in the wisdom of man, but in the power of God….. ” we speak wisdom to them that are perfect, ”matured”
Deuteronomy 28:1-14 (KJV)
1 And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command thee this day, that the LORD thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth:
2 And all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God.
3 Blessed shalt thou be in the city, and blessed shalt thou be in the field.
4 Blessed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy ground, and the fruit of thy cattle, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep.
5 Blessed shall be thy basket and thy store.
6 Blessed shalt thou be when thou comest in, and blessed shalt thou be when thou goest out.
7 The LORD shall cause thine enemies that rise up against thee to be smitten before thy face: they shall come out against thee one way, and flee before thee seven ways.
8 The LORD shall command the blessing upon thee in thy storehouses, and in all that thou settest thine hand unto; and he shall bless thee in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
9 The LORD shall establish thee an holy people unto himself, as he hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, and walk in his ways.
10 And all people of the earth shall see that thou art called by the name of the LORD; and they shall be afraid of thee.
11 And the LORD shall make thee plenteous in goods, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy ground, in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers to give thee.
12 The LORD shall open unto thee his good treasure, the heaven to give the rain unto thy land in his season, and to bless all the work of thine hand: and thou shalt lend unto many nations, and thou shalt not borrow.
13 And the LORD shall make thee the head, and not the tail; and thou shalt be above only, and thou shalt not be beneath; if that thou hearken unto the commandments of the LORD thy God, which I command thee this day, to observe and to do them: 14 And thou shalt not go aside from any of the words which I command thee this day, to the right hand, or to the left, to go after other gods to serve them.
The greatest blessing that man can possibly receive is “the gift of Christ” for in Him dwelleth all the fullness of the God head bodily, and I am complete in Him. Because in 2 Pet.1:3 He has given to me all things that pertain unto life and Godliness. But I must appropriate them by faith.
So I have a hard time with the beliefs that we are only healed spiritually, and to suffer need and live below the poverty level.
Blessed be the man that trusteth in the Lord; for he shall be like a tree planted by the waters, that speaketh out his roots to the rivers and shall not know when heat cometh, but his leaf shall be green, he shall not be careful in the year of drought, and he will never cease from yielding fruit. Jer.17:8 and Ps. 1:3
“To paraphrase” Paul said I know how to be abased and I know how to abound, and I know how to be content in what ever state I am in.
I realize I am jumping around a lot, so I will stop for now.
Blessings
Joe
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Hey brother Joe,
I have this posted on page 2 of this discussion and would love your inpute on the questions below:
Since we have been discussing the prosperity message a little, i want to discuss one of the reasons i feel they get off in their doctrine. it relates to a line of reasoning they hold to. they beleive since we are children of abraham and share in the "covenants of promise", they hold that all the benefits of the abrahamic and mosaic covenant belong to us. so they say things like, abraham was rich, we should receive that benefit. they say that since the law promised that our land crops would be blessed, our businesses will be prosperous. etc. etc. they also apply the "curses" of the mosaic covenant to believers, but here i would like to focus on how they apply the "promises" and benefits of those covenants to the nt believer. in the discussions about "christians under law?" we talked about the curses.
-So, is their logic correct?
-Do all the promises of prosperity in the abrahamic and mosaic covenants apply to us? Do we have the promise of blessed crops? Do we have the promise of victory over our national enemies? Do we get the promise of living at peace in our land? etc, etc.
-how do we decide which promises of the abrahamic and mosaic covenants to apply to NT believers???
-2 Corinthians 1:20 "For all the promises of God in Him are Yes, and in Him Amen, to the glory of God through us."
Does this mean we can claim any promise we find anywhere in the old testament???
This might seem like an odd way to approach the errors of the prosperity message, but i believe it is one of, if not the, main sources of their error. the way they understand the old testament covenants in relation to the New covenant believer.
It is not an easy thing to navigate around, but i thought i would throw it out for meditation.
BTW - I love the way you approach the family. You are a blessings. :) -
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Permalink Reply by Ginnybee on
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I'm with you here, Joe.
Apparently, believing that God desires to bless His children, or that He will, is difficult for some to believe. That surprises me, however. The question that lingers in my mind is why would anyone wish to destroy the hope of another, the hope that the Word of God says we have in Him? Saying that God doesn't bless us in the physical is like telling people to crawl in a hole and drown in your pain because you have not hope for a better anything in this life. That holds a potential for sending someone into severe depression, in my opinion. People suffer long and depend on the hope of our Lord to get them through each day, hope that maybe tomorrow will be the day the Lord sees fit to lift the burden from them. To tell them God won't bless you, give it up, is insensitive, mean, and incorrect IMO.
Now that I've said that, I want to include that I recognize the extreme importance of keeping our reverence for the Lord at the forefront. We should be careful not to regard our worldly circumstances as more major than He and His goodness. But, please don't destroy a person's rightful hope in the Lord through this discussion, I beg. God does bless His children tangibly, not suggesting we will get whatever we want, but He is sensitive to our suffering, and He does bless us according to His righteous preference. Thank you.
GB -
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Dear GB, Thank you for somewhat agreeing with me.
I hope I am not leaving everyone with the impression that I think material and earthly possessions are the most important thing in being a Christian.
I would hope that it is obvious that I believe that having my name written in heaven is by far the most important thing we can have.
I’m somewhat surprised though: that no one responds or says anything about the New Creation or what was said about the understanding on the Spirit, Soul and Body. When by the responses I get, it is pretty obvious that it doesn’t seem to be very important to them, But from my understanding and point of view it has everything to do with it. To understand that everything we will ever need has already been deposited in our Spirits at the time of the new birth.
All by the “Grace “of God. He does not have to die on the cross again to give us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, or to rebuke the devil for us, He has given that authority to us to walk upright and victorious before Him.
I don’t believe that any of the blessings of God can be experienced if we were not seeking Him and His righteousness. Mat.6:33.
Deut.28: says [ IF ] you hearken diligently unto the voice of the Lord thy God…….., And then what happens if we don’t hearken…….? Will you still be blessed?
Luke 10:19-20, Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.
We have been blessed with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places…
Ephesians 1:3-4
But I wonder what this scripture means to those that don’t believe we should have anything that belongs to this world. Well, maybe not anything, surely they believe we should have food, clothing and shelter, but beyond that?
Some will say, “God works in strange and mysterious ways, His wonders to perform” There are many that will quote this, but it is not in the Word, It actually says just the opposite, It does say that we have the mind of Christ, and that God’s Spirit is within us and reveals to us the things that God has prepared for us. Mat.13:11 says,” It has been given to you to know the mysteries of heaven. Eph. 1:9 says, “ having made known unto us the mystery of His will” I wish we could all understand that we need to think like God thinks, according to His Word and not the way we have been taught by the passive’s way of thinking. Just like someone said in another post, a rich man can not go to heaven, where do they get that? When in Matthew 19:24-26, it says “ And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?
But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible. So with the rich man that has his salvation in his own strength and possessions, it would be impossible, But if he has Christ in his life and acknowledges Him as Lord, then it is possible.
2Pet.1:2,3 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, 3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto “life” and “godliness“, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
Be blessed, strengthened, and enriched in His Love and Word.
Joe -
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Ok.....I feel somewhat 'stuck in the middle' here, not neccessarilly about this one specific issue. There are many more issues and this is just one of them. But I think many of us are waking up to something new. Many of us jumped in with both feet at a certain church or congregation, and we looked to people there as mentors. We grow and learn and we begin to see that maybe some of these people we 'look up to' are not so perfect. Maybe we do not really believe that everything they are saying is good doctrine. We can begin to feel quite alone in our fellowship when this happens and very dissappointed, even angry. But the fact is.....most of our churches have some 'good doctrine' as well as a bunch of crap that tends to creep in. So what do we do about it? If we start yelling and complaining we just make ourselves look like the bad guy. Instead...we grow up; grow up in our churches, maybe even begin going to a new church and look to step up into leadership. If we are the ones who 'see' a mess, just take on some responsibility and fix it. I have taken a break from the church I had attended for years for some of the reasons we are talking about here. Maybe it 'is time' to throw the money changers out of the temple. We need to get 'ministry' back into our churches and do the things our Lord commanded us, call the lost, give hope to the hopeless, tell the 'Good News' of Salvation/ our Saviour. If our churches and leaders are not doing it, then 'we' must do it. If we just whine and complain about what we think is right and then blow away like dry leaves in a wind,..... we are not going to have any lasting influence on our body. But if we start 'doing' what is right and living it others will join in. I also need to practice what I am preaching, I am certainly not perfect. I think many of us are seeing a need, for more. It just so happens that we all know the direct source to 'get' more. He wants us to have more. All we need to do is go back and knock again on that same door and He will answer. He desires to give us riches far greater than money or material possessions. If somebody else gets 'stuck' on that garage full of 'stuff', just forgive them and lead the way, truely lead the way to something better. If those who see the way do not lead, who will?
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