All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
S.O.A.P. 6
Greetings all,
I will continue to try something on TheNET. I would like to see if we can engage in a Bible study using the forums. I hope to simulate a small group setting, but realize that there will be lag time. Here are the parameters that we will work with ... and this is open to everyone.
1) We are attempting to work our way through the gospel of John.
2) We will not tolerate negative comments made about a person or persons.
3) We are using the S.O.A.P. approach which = Scripture - Observation - Application - Prayer.
... 3a) Scripture text from the Gospel of John using KJV (no copyright attached)
... 3b)Observations about the particular text. What is being said, what is going on, who is involved and what might be the points being made?
... 3c) Application of the text/teaching to our lives today.
... 3d) Prayer pertaining to that which we have sought to discern.
4) It is appropriate to ask questions along the way.
5) I operating as the facilitator and teacher of this online group/class, but want the open participation of others.
6) At the end of each week (Friday's) I will close the current one and start a new one.
This weeks discussion:
Joh 3:10-21 KJV Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? (11) Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. (12) If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? (13) And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. (14) And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: (15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. (16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (17) For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. (18) He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (19) And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. (20) For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. (21) But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on
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A good example in my opinion of a wrong belief is that there is one God who has revealed Himself progressively through all the religions of the world. There is one true God, but many false religions in the world. It matters what we believe about God and about God's Word.
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Permalink Reply by ribbon on
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They say they believe but do they really if they keep doing evil?
According to some teachings that I have read.... yes , they are the believers and belong to God.
I guess I haven't thought of faith and believing being together. I am one of those who don't attend church nor do I read much. So, I guess how could my belief grow without a growing faith then, huh? Thanks for yalls answers.
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Permalink Reply by Seek on
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Yes, we ALL commit sin, but the key is "and men loved darkness rather than light". Do you love darkness rather than light? I mean, would you RATHER read the Bible and attend church and really get to know Christ or would you rather go to a bar and get drunk instead? Or sit down and watch a movie full of cuss words? Do you value worldly things over Christ? If your heart keeps leaning toward Jesus, then He's trying to get your attention and if you abide in His Word and His Word abides in you, you are His disciple indeed. So your step then is to abide in His Word.
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HONESTLY ...... I am more comfortable in a bar and or getting drunk. The cuss words doesn't bother me... but, the nasty does, but it bothered me even before believing in Jesus. I am now hoping for the conviction that one of yall mentioned.
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Permalink Reply by Richard L. Broch, Sr. on
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Greetings Group,
Yes, yes, yes.......spiritual belief, spiritual faith, and a real trust in God......ARE ALL CLOSELY RELATED, IN ONE'S RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD, THROUGH HIS SON - CHRIST JESUS.......Amen, amen,....and amen.
Imagine a glass of ice water, there on the table, during a hot summer's day (temp 101+).
You look at it. You can believe it's there....because you see it. So you know it. That is referred to as INTELECTUAL BELIEF.
You pick up the glass of water and drink gladly from it. Now you have exercised an active belief by putting your physical, mental, and spiritual belief into action. We can refer this to AN ACTIVE SPIRITUAL BELIEF.
James 2:19-20, "You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. (20) But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?" (N.A.S.B.).
What is the Holy Spirit and James telling us here?
Just that Satan and his crowd (yes, crowd) believe in God and His Son, Jesus....as an intellectual belief...as an enemy. And that same type of belief is held by most of the world's population (yes, most) because they don't show an active spiritual belief in a true love for God. They show the opposite life from their hearts - I Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21.
These are not man-made rules of life for the world......but God-made rules FOR life, now and eternal.
Deuteronomy 30:19," I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants," (N.A.S.B.).
Grace and Peace.
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My only problem with your explanation is that it is very possible to intellectually choose to keep laws and rules and do works. That's the whole point behind saying it is wrong to believe that one must do works in order to be saved. There's no denying that the truly saved will do good works and will walk in His righteousness. None of that is saving them however. Simply choosing to do good works doesn't make one's belief spiritual instead of intellectual. Being known by Jesus and knowing Him, being born again, makes one alive spiritually.
He did not die and resurrect just to make it possible that we could choose to do good works or so we could simply become a better person, but so that we may become a new creation. Works will follow. None of us deserve it and it doesn't appear right that once we become a new creation that works or choices could make us no longer deserve it either. If we continue to look at works as proof of being saved instead of looking at salvation as only being evidenced by good works, then our assurance isn't found in nothing but Jesus. It is found in nothing but our performance and in ourselves.
I'm confused by your statements regarding intellectual belief and active spiritual belief. The choice to live righteously will turn belief into spiritual belief instead of only an intellectual assent? What about the new birth?
I am aware that it is commonly taught that there is God's part in salvation and then man's part and that both are necessary if man is to reach heaven. I know it's taught that we must comply with the conditions set forth by God and the works are not our works but are works that are God's and which the Lord has commanded and one of the steps to be saved is to live the Christian life. I just have trouble agreeing with that teaching anymore. I'm not saying this is what you mean. I'm just confused. Is my part to make the good choices? I know we must come to God on God's terms but what are those terms?
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Permalink Reply by thewatchman on
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There's no denying that the truly saved will do good works and will walk in His righteousness. None of that is saving them however.
So do you believe that doing absolutely nothing will save you? Just curious, because in that case everyone should be saved, correct?
The Bible says: 1 Cor. 6
1Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? 2Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? 4If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. 5I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren? 6But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.
7Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded? 8Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.
9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
12All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. 13Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body. 14And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.15Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid. 16What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.17But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
18Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.19What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
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I believe we can do nothing to save ourselves. Jesus is our Savior. Why do you believe that your works are saving you? We are saved by grace through faith. Works follow but do not cause salvation. Repenting and believing aren't works. God calls, draws, supplies the faith and gives the repentance. I believe we can choose darkness over light but that isn't a work. Calling on the name of Jesus isn't a work.
Please note: I never said we will not bear fruit or have good works. The works aren't saving us. That's what I said.
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life. (1 John 5:11-13 ESV)
but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. (John 20:31 ESV)
remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. (Ephesians 2:12, 13 ESV)
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Permalink Reply by RoyW on
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Our only hope in this world is Jesus. Otherwise, we are all lost in our sin. We will never be able to do enough works to compensate for all our sin. We need Someone to come and grant us salvation. Baptism will not save you. Works will not save you. Only faith in Jesus saves us from our sin.
Amanda, I perceive you to be saying that those who have come to Christ will find themselves seeking to live at a higher standard but that is not what saves them. Jesus took a severe, brutal beating for our sin. I agree with you that we cannot take any credit for our salvation. It is all Christ.
Sinners will not inherit God's Kingdom. All have broken the Commandments of God. They are all lost in their sin. Only those who come to Christ will be forgiven of their sin. I wish all would come to Him but sadly all do not. In Him all our sins are forgiven. Through faith we are granted eternal life. The Words of Jesus as LT has pointed out are still true today.
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Jesus is the One that can cause the lame to walk, open blinded eyes, heal the lepers, turn water into wine, and do all kinds of things that man in himself has no power to do. He is the Messiah and He is the only One that can forgive our sins. He is the One that we follow. He is the One that we put our faith and trust in for the eternal life He promised all that believe in Him.
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Permalink Reply by JB on
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Jesus is the One that can cause the lame to walk, open blinded eyes, heal the lepers, turn water into wine, and do all kinds of things that man in himself has no power to do. He is the Messiah and He is the only One that can forgive our sins. He is the One that we follow. He is the One that we put our faith and trust in for the eternal life He promised all that believe in Him.
Thats so true Roy, But the good news is , that same Christ is in us doing the works. Eph. 3:20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
Amen? Also John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. And John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.JB
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