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Hebrews Ch. 1:8-9

Hebrews Ch. 1:8-9

I chose to read Hebrews today and felt a great mist lift from my eyes – almost a physical sensation of revelation to me. The first three chapters of this book (I had to stop just before Chapter 4 because of this revelation, I had to write it down) have gotten me thinking a great deal about translations and the truth of said translations.

 

I’ve had times when I have questioned the Trinity because it is not something I can understand. I will never fully understand it, which I accept, but accepting God as three persons in one God has been a bit of a tough issue for me. I’ve looked for passages pertaining to this matter as I know the Bible is the inspired word of God so if there is anything said about this, it’ll be there – and it certainly is. I am beginning to understand more about God’s triune nature courtesy of His grace, and I thank Him wholeheartedly for even the tiniest snippet of understanding He sees fit to grant me. I wish to please Him and knowing Him just a little bit better achieves this, I think.

 

Another element of this life that I struggle with is to do with the Jehovah’s Witnesses. I have a friend who is a JW and I don’t talk to him much about his beliefs because I don’t know how to rebuke or correct someone if needed – all I remember right now is him telling me that the New World Translation is widely considered the most accurate translation of the Bible around… I’ve heard quite the opposite and seen red flags pop up in JW literature (two JWs come by my house and give me magazines once a month, each time the content seems to goes against Scripture; I’m not affiliated with the JWs, I just keep wishing I could tell them the truth, the words don’t come though; I'll keep praying on the matter). Now, bear with me – this does all have to do with my revelation today.

 

So while I was reading the book of Hebrews something come into my head, an idea, as I spotted a few verses of that would act as evidence for Jesus’ deity and the deity of the Holy Spirit. I thought I would take a look at them and compare them to other translations of the Bible. I truly believe this exercise is God’s will, both for me and hopefully for others who are struggling with the same battle of faith and JWs.

 

The first extract that really jumps out at me is Hebrews 1:8-9, which is as follows in the New Living Translation of the Bible:

 

But to the Son he says,

“Your throne, O God, endures forever and ever.

You rule with a sceptre of justice.

You love justice and hate evil.

Therefore, O God, your God has anointed you,

pouring out the oil of joy on you more than on anyone else.”

 

The extract is actually a Psalm, Psalm 45:6-7 to be exact, but as I’m reading the book of Hebrews I thought I’d copy over the translations of this portion of Hebrews from other Bibles, I've underlined the sentence that has sparked this interest.

 

King James Version (1611 edition)

8 But unto the Sonne, he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

9 Thou hast love righteousnesse, and hated iniquitie, therefore God, even thy God hath anointed thee with the oyle of gladnesse above thy fellowes.

 

English Standard Version

8 But of the Son he says,

“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,

the sceptre of uprightness is the sceptre of your kingdom.

9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;

Therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”

 

New International Version

8 But about the Son he says,

“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.

9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.”

 

I have looked through 43 English translations of the Bible and have found that while some of them use different wording, they all preach the same message: Jesus is God - God is clearly talking to God. Out of curiosity (and compelling by who I believe to be the Holy Spirit), I look up the new world translation of the Bible and found the following:

 

New World Translation

8 But with reference to the Son: “God is your throne forever and ever, and [the] sceptre of your kingdom is the sceptre of uprightness. 9 You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with [the] oil of exultation more than your partners.”

 

I’m not sure how other believers will look at this but when I read it I don’t see the same message as the other 43 translations I looked at. This extract does not proclaim that Jesus is God, like the others.

 

I am getting a little concerned as the longer I spend typing this, the more I feel a battle emerging inside of me. Something is nudging me to post this and ask for others’ opinions on it, something else is just telling me I’m nit-picking and looking into it too much. To be honest when I saw the difference I was shocked. It’s a small, simple sentence but in my eyes it completely changes the tone of the two verses. Am I reading into this too much? I just had to post this to see what others thought on the matter because I know that typically, JWs are taught that Jesus is like a “demi God”, a created being and seeing how different this line is compared to forty three other translations makes me wonder.

 

It's been said that the leaders of the JWs have altered their Bible to correlate to their teaching, I suppose having it thrown into my face like that was a huge wake up call. Maybe God is trying to provide evidence to disprove the false teaching of the Jehovah's Witnesses?

 

What are your thoughts?

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Amanda on April 8, 2013 at 7:23pm

It sounds like you received a good word from God.

Permalink Reply by journeyman on April 8, 2013 at 7:48pm

Here is an excellent guide for you Rachel when trying to "understand" Jehovah Witness beliefs.

http://www.allaboutreligion.org/jehovahs-witness-religion.htm

The Holy Spirit is with you guiding you and counseling you on your journey.

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on April 9, 2013 at 9:11pm

Check out this group and this discussion here in AAG:

http://www.allaboutgod.net/group/allaboutgodnet/forum/topics/jehova...

 

 

Some of the JW erroneous teachings:

 

by Matt Slick

  1. There is one God in one person, Make Sure of All Things, p 188.
  2. There is no Trinity, Let God be True, p. 100-101; Make Sure of All Things, p.386.
  3. The Holy Spirit is a force, not alive, Reasoning from the Scriptures, 1985, p.
    406-407.
  4. The Holy Spirit is God's impersonal active force, The Watchtower, June 1, 1952,
    p. 24.
  5. Jehovah's first creation was his 'only-begotten Son'. . . was used by Jehovah in
    creating all other things", Aid to Bible Understanding, p. 390-391.
  6. Jesus was Michael the archangel who became a man, The Watchtower, May 15,
    1963, p. 307; The New World, 284.
  7. Jesus was only a perfect man, not God in flesh, Reasoning from the Scriptures,
    1985, p. 306.
  8. Jesus did not rise from the dead in his physical body, Awake! July 22, 1973, p. 4.
  9. Jesus was raised "not a human creature, but a spirit." Let God be True, p. 276.
  10. Jesus was born again, The Watchtower, Nov. 15, 1954, p. 682.
  11. Jesus did not die on a cross but on a stake, Reasoning from the Scriptures, 1985,
    p. 89-90.
  12. Jesus began his invisible rule over the earth in 1914, The Truth Shall Make You Free,
    p. 300.
  13. Jesus' ransom sacrifice did not include Adam, Let God be True, p.  119.
  14. Their church is the self-proclaimed prophet of God, The Watchtower, April 1,
    1972, p. 197.
  15. They claim to be the only channel of God's truth, The Watchtower, Feb. 15, 
    1981, p. 19.
  16. Only their church members will be saved, The Watchtower, Feb, 15, 1979, p. 30.
  17. Good works are necessary for salvation, Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 1, 
    p. 150, 152.
  18. The soul ceases to exist after death, Let God be True, p. 59, 60, 67.
  19. There is no hell of fire where the wicked are punished, Let God be True, p. 79, 80.
  20. Only 144,000 Jehovah's Witness go to heaven, Reasoning from the Scriptures,
    1985, pp. 166-167, 361; Let God be True, p. 121.
  21. Only the 144,000 Jehovah's Witness are born again. Reasoning from the
    Scriptures    , 1985, p. 76.; Watchtower 11/15/54, p. 681.
  22. Only the 144,000 may take communion.
  23. Blood transfusions are a sin, Reasoning from the Scriptures, 1985, pp. 72-73.
  24. The Cross is a pagan symbol and should not be used, Reasoning from the
    Scriptures    , 1985, p. 90-92.
  25. Salvation is by faith and what you do, Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 1, p.
    150,152.
  26. It is possible to lose your salvation, Reasoning from the Scriptures, 1985, p.
    358-359.
  27. The universe is billions of years old, Your will Be Done on Earth, p. 43.
  28. Each of the 6 creative days of God in Genesis 1, was 7000 years long.  
    Therefore, Man was created toward the end of 42,000 years of earth's
    preparation, Let God be True, p. 168.
  29. They also refuse to vote, salute the flag, sing the "Star Spangled Banner," or
    celebrate Christmas or birthdays. They are not allowed to serve in the armed
    forces.
  30. Satan was entrusted with the obligation and charged with the duty of
    overseeing the creation of the earth, Children, p. 55.

They are not a Christian religion since they change primary biblical doctrines.

 

Permalink Reply by Gary Schultz on April 10, 2013 at 3:45pm

I agree with everyone who has posted thus far.

I have a JW or two stop by every year. It saddens me to see people so deceived and feel bad that I can't grab them and shake some sense into them. I guess that wouldn't be the right approach.

Amanda is right,you did receive good word. The JW's have changed the Bible to correlate their teachings and they will often speak of Watchtower Literature and won't read from any other translation of the Bible.

I would suggest if you are trying to reach them, do it with love and compassion. Keep the conversation on Christ and the fact that salvation only comes by a belief in Him as the son of a triune God and His sacrifice on the cross. Remind them that they can not earn their salvation and that it is a gift to believers. 

I'm big into apologetic's and will refer to some of that when the question comes up regarding the Bible and its authenticity.

I am happy for your experience with the Holy Spirit. I love when that happens.

God is soooo coooool

Gary

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on April 10, 2013 at 4:21pm

 

Rachel,

 

Gary is correct at saying that the JW's have changed the Bible they use, The New World Translation, which by the way, no one knows, who translated it. Their translation/version has not just used different words to convey the same message, but they have used different words to change doctrine, that is evil.

That is one of the reasons why they are considered a cult and not under the Christian umbrella of denominations that may vary in secondary issues, but see eye to eye in the essentials.

Permalink Reply by Tammy on April 19, 2013 at 5:51pm

If Christians were as faithful as the JW's were, imagine the lives Christ could change thru us

Permalink Reply by Tammy on April 15, 2013 at 5:30pm

I love when He speaks to you through His word like that. It's like blinders have been raised.

Permalink Reply by Richard L. Broch, Sr. on April 18, 2013 at 9:50pm

Hi Rachel,

The JW crew have to be the slickest snake oil salesmen in the world to get people into their camp................talk about building one's house on the sand ...........

Have you had an opportunity to check out John 1:1 in the new world transmission yet? It stands out like a sore thumb.

 

And Sis, don't sweat about not fully understanding the Holy Trinity at this point. I've been at it for about 45 years  of Bible study and I don't have it down yet.

I know, I know, think of the principle of water + ice + steam..........or the three sides of a triangle, or an actor with three different masks, or,or...........

 

Here's how I think of it: There are two types of beliefs - intellectual and spiritual.

A person with an intellecual belief must have facts, figures, and a scientific understanding, culmanating to a foolproof explanation of his or her pursuits.

A person with a spiritual belief bases his or her case on Biblical statements........a kind of child-like belief.....no questions asked........like Jesus says "Of such are the Kingdom of Heaven".

I believe in the Three are One, and the One is Three, amen. Can I explain it? (No). Do I try to explain it?(No).

Did Jesus ever make it clear in His preaching or teaching? (No). Case closed.

 

Rachel, just keep on keeping on........you're  doin'  just fine.

 

Grace and Peace from the Lord of the harvest.

 

Permalink Reply by Tammy on April 19, 2013 at 5:53pm

Brother Richard

You having car problems? 

Have you had an opportunity to check out John 1:1 in the new world transmission yet? It stands out like a sore thumb.

Yes, that does stand out like a sore thumb.

Permalink Reply by ribbon on April 20, 2013 at 3:37pm

lol tammy

Permalink Reply by Carla on April 20, 2013 at 3:44pm

hahahaha.. I noticed that the other day also but it didn't quite click with me what was wrong with it.. :-) ...until now. :-)

Permalink Reply by Carla on April 19, 2013 at 5:34am

Rachel,

This is great.  You are seeking the truth and God is showing things to you.  You have gotten such great input here from the others.

 

One analogy the Lord has shown me to help me understand the Trinity as much as I can now is this:

God is one God.. However, He is made up of 3 persons. Father, Son, Holy Spirit... When I asked the Lord to help me understand that He gave me the example of a family.

 

We all have one family with several people in it...but we are still One Family.  

God is One God but  made up of 3...  But still One God.

 

Blessings, Carla

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