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The beginning of persecution in America?
We all know about Columbine and churches that have had individuals martyred for their faith in Jesus. Here is a video of a man who was holding Bible studies in his own home, he was sentenced for 60 days in jail because of this. He has to turn himself in on the 9th of this month.
I would love to hear everyones input regarding this.
Lord's blessings always
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Tammy on
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The problem David is in DECEPTION. How much do you trust the Lord that you have to be deceiving to do His Will? As far as the Christians letting the government take over here, I don't see that. There are 70 churches in our small town of Kings Mountain with a population of 10, 246. I'm in the Bible belt which may be the reason but I see our country this way everywhere though I haven't been everywhere. What kinda surprises me is the fact you don't see any problem with his deception. Christ never teaches us to "fool" the opposing side. God hates liars, God hates liars - no ifs, buts, or maybe if. He doesn't need us to lie to stand up for Him. Some of the men who are credited with great faith lied because their trust in the Lord wasn't what it should have been. Their trust did grow however. I have no problem in raising up the Lord in my work. hehehe I'm a stay-at-home mother. Bless u brother luv u dearly
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I hope you get some rest. You're going to be whack if not. Luv u as well.
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Awesome Char Awesome. You always have such a positive feedback. I pray one day I will be trusted with such a Spirit as yours. Be bless bff
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I've seen this time & again brother. Take everyone else's word for it that he's not as innocence as he tries to appear. I take it as confirmation that everyone sees it the same. He wants a stage & he's getting it. There are many many ways to hold Bible studies in your home without disrupting the city, neighbors or anything. David Rhea, once a member here, holds them in his house quite regularly. We have church members that hold it in their homes as well thru the week. They have never had an iota of trouble. I think first, we should pray for the motives of his heart. I do believe he loves the Lord but is really making others look bad as far as Christians go with his accusations. If you read all of the replies, we're blessed with many on here who know the codes. Richard seemed really knowledgeable there. My late husband was a brick mason so I know a little. I also went to school to be a paralegal so I know a wittle bit. Luv u brother
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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Without counsel plans fail, but with many advisers they succeed Proverbs 15:22.
Proverbs 11:14 For lack of guidance a nation falls, but many advisers make victory sure.
Proverbs 20:18 Make plans by seeking advice; if you wage war, obtain guidance.
Ok - I hear you Tammy. He should have sought counsel.
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on
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Mischelle, I think he unplugged his GPS and is more than just a little bit lost :)
This is a bad event and is it possible to experience positive results from it?
Why would God allow this to happen to this man or allow this man to do this?
To teach him to set his affections on God's things.
To teach him to be more aware of the laws.
To teach him humility.
To help him conquer pride.
To teach him honesty.
To teach him leadership -- he needs to be prepared somehow for effective leadership.
To remind other people of what not to do.
To challenge other people to take a better look at their own motivations.
I am sure there are many other reasons why this has happened and God allowed it and we can look at it like this man has made Christians look bad, but I think maybe God wants me to look at it a little differently and ask myself when others look at me, does God look good?
Another reason God allowed this to happen:
To teach all Christians to learn how to honor God and let God decide what is right and what is wrong and not look to justify or support our wrong choices. One of the lies that many people believe is that it is OK to follow their hearts and do what their hearts tell them to do as long as the end justifies the means. Our intellect often justifies our choices. We try to come up with many reasons for why our wrong choices were right. That's what I see him doing. IMO
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Permalink Reply by Charles Burwell on
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Amanda
Very well said . Especially the part about
" Another reason God let this to happen :To teach all Christians to learn how to honor God and let God decide what is right and what is wrong and not look to justify or support our wrong choices. One of the lies that many people believe is that it is ok to follow their hearts and do what their hearts tell them to do as long as the end justifies the means . ........"
This is , indeed , a common misconception based on the facts of the word. I have heard the example of Peter and John defying authorities by continuing to preach the gospel in spite o their warnings to quit being used to justify a lot of foolishness done in the name of the Lord.
As the brother pointed out concerning ' obeying the laws of man to honor God ' . We cannot simply ignore the law because we feel that we are doing a ' good thing' . Especially when the scriptures admonish us to obey the laws .
I do not , by any means go against ' civil disobedience ' when we are being made to violate the commands of God ( such as the case of Peter and John ) . But this is not the case here. As the brother so wisely pointed out , the man was not arrested for preaching the gospel . He was arrested for violating zoning laws.
The only place that I have read it proclaimed that ' the end justifies the means ' is in a document called ' the communist manifesto ' which was based on the teachings of Karl Marx. He said ( and I hope I'm quoting this right ) " We will achieve our goals by any means , and the end will justify the means ". Although many people in this country who are not communists practice this philosophy there is absolutely no scriptural support for it . And much scriptural support to the contrary.
That is why it is reffered to as ' philosophy ' , which comes from 2 greek words meaning ' wisdom of man ."
God does not need us to take matters into our own hands ( as in this case by deception ) when He has all the means to accomplish anything He institutes by means that are within His revealed will . Just as He does not need our advice , only our obedience to His will and HIS ways.
You are also spot on by saying that we can learn much from this exampleif we are willing to see it for what it is and not what it is promoted as being . Actually the man not only broke the laws of Phoenix he broke the laws of God . And nothing good ever comes of that .
I am basing all my comments on the assumption that all has been portrayed as it actually occurred.
God bless you , my friend
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Thank you, Charles. You have greatly encouraged me. Looking for the positive in the negative is now one of my main goals. :)
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Mischelle, once again I am reminded of Rahab.
Did Rahab lie? I think maybe there are similarities here. She hid spies, lied about not knowing them, and yet, to my knowledge, we don't see that she was held accountable for the lie. She was not rewarded for lying though. She was rewarded for her faith in God. I think God will commend righteous works we do and be merciful to us for the sins we commit as we are trying to do His will based on the motive in our hearts. Just my opinion. We cannot know motives in people's hearts. Only God can know them. But, because this man is facing jail time, maybe that means his motives were wrong. That is speculation though on my part. I don't know his heart.
God is more than able to bring good out of this situation and yes this man needs our help by prayers. God is in control and no damage has been done to the Body of Christ that God would not permit as we know God is able to work even the liberties of mankind which includes their wrong choices into His plan -- a phenomenon that I am now calling divine orchestration. Jacob in the OT is a good example of it. Remember his deception? Perhaps this man is in jail -- I don't know and have not been following the story. It would mean he is suffering the consequences for his sin. But in other ways God may be merciful to him. I would not in my own perception say the man is suffering unjustly. I don't know about what happened before this -- the reports in which he claims he was persecuted before this for having Bible studies in his home. I suppose the definition for persecution may differ from individual to individual. The JW's often feel the same way. Would I want to be under this man's leadership, knowing what I know about him now? I think he has damaged his testimony. Who can cast stones? Jesus is able to restore him and give him a greater and stronger testimony. When people look at me, does God look good? I suppose it depends on who is looking and their POV :)
I am thinking now of 2 Cor 2:7, Now instead, you ought to forgive and comfort him, so that he will not be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow.
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