The Spirit's Will vs man's wisdom

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Anna Fox on May 30, 2012 at 1:53pm

My mom has often prayed for me when I was going throught tough times when no one told her that I needed help. Somehow God told her I needed prayer. I have not had experiences like this but I hope others have things to share. I'd love to hear more on this.

Permalink Reply by a servant (Chris) on May 30, 2012 at 7:11pm

Anna

   It is true we do not chose who or how we operate in the Spirit.  However, a humble and willing heart to be able to Pray for others may reveal more than you know.  From my experiences we operate in the Spirit for others, not so we appear to be a "big deal."  I would suggest you spend some quiet time in Prayer, and open yourself to the Lord, while keeping a humble heart.  A Prayer Warrior open to the Spirit, is a very Powerful Child of God.

Lord Bless

Permalink Reply by Charles Burwell on May 30, 2012 at 3:56pm

Chris

 

I have had several what I call 'battles of the will '  with the Lord . ( and lost them all , by the way ).   one particular incedent involved the Lord leading me to go to Washington , DC .  I was a young christian at the time and was genuinely seeking the leading of the Spirit in my life . ( or so I thought ).

 

When the Lord led me to go there I found every argument in the book as to why this made no sense  . In my flesh I had absolutely no desire to go there and could figure out no reason why I should . My brother was living there at the time so I went for a few days  of vacation time from work and went up there . I figured that would be plenty of time for the Lord to show me what He wanted. My brother , though a christian himself , thought I was crazy when I told him why I was there  but offered to let me stay with him until I could figure it out.  I felt so stupid and embarassed that I had no real explanation for why I was there and God seemed to have disappeared so I returned to Florida.

 

All the way back I fought against a feeling of conviction that I was willfully stepping out of God's will. I was physically ill from it. To make a longer story shorter I struggled with this for over 2 and a half years.  I found a little peace for brief moments over this time but never the peace  that I had when I first turned to the Lord . I felt I had let Him down and tried involevment in several different ministries but nothing helped. It just made absolutely no sense to go back there

 

After a series of real setbacks in my Christian walk I turned to God and said ' I give up , what do you want " . His spirit so clearly revealed to me that I knew what He wanted and He had not changed His mind by my delay and trying to serve Him another way .  

 

I returned to DC . Several people just kind of shook their heads and my decision. God alone knows what was on their minds but I went anyhow.  This time my brother was no longer living there and I had no place to stay . I just told the Lord that I didn't know what was going on or what was going to happen to me when I got there because I now knew absolutely no one there.

 

My flesh and mind were in turmoil , but there was a deep peace within my spirit that somehow it would be alright.

I arrived at the bus station in DC put my back pack in a locker and just stepped out in the street . I spent the next 12 days living on the streets with rapidly dwindling  resources. I only had forty dollars to begin with .  I slept in the bushes outside of Constitution hall and then in a trailer set up as a rest area for tourists and got food where I could find it.

 

Manythings happened during these 12 days that let me know that even though I felt forsaken , I was not forgotten by God.  Finally at my lowest point He lead me to the Central Union Mission.  I spent the next 2 years there . I worked there and lived there and experienced a time of learning from the Lord that I am convinced I could never have learned in a lifetime of bible college.  Although , through the mission I was able to attend Washington Bible College for 1 year.

 

My point to all this is that  sometimes God leads us into 'dark places ' not necessarily to show  world something through us , but to manifest Himself to us in ways that we would never otherwise learn.  Even as I type this and remember what  the Lord did in my life during this time tears flow from m y eyes . Which is a little bit embarrassing because I'm on a library computer, but when God touches us we cannot help but be over whelmed.

 

I had a couple other similar experienced that reinforced this in my life but this happened over 30 years ago and I am still learning from it today.

Permalink Reply by Charles Burwell on May 30, 2012 at 4:11pm

Chris

 

Please forgive my abrupt end to my comment . My time on the library computer was rapidly running out. I realize I was rather long winded and will not say much more.

 

I only wanted to add that the Lord has lead very strongly several different times when the circumstances certainly didn't warrent the actions the Spirit was leading me in , but each time I obeyed in spite of my incredible misgivings, the Lord blessed in ways I would never have dared to believe.

 

In contrast , there were a couple of times when I resisted the spirit and the consequences that resulted are things that I struggle greatly with at times.  It is scary to just step out when you seem to have only God on your side but then when you realize that you do indeed have God on your side things happen that we cannot begin to imagine.

I could right a book on the subject both of the blessings of obedience and the grief caused and experienced through the disobedience.

 

 

God bless and thank you for your patience.

Permalink Reply by a servant (Chris) on May 30, 2012 at 6:55pm

Charles

    If I had a nickel for every time I resisted the leading of the Spirit.  Well, you get my point.  From the beginning I received Words from so many people.  Telling me of the Call on my life.  I resisted them all for a time.  I knew they were true, they witnessed deep in my spirit.  I had a "knowing," of what they meant.  I just felt like I would let God down, many times I was overwhelmed.  I have been in the belly of a fish more than once.  I have had people who jealous, even angry, which all of that has always confused me.  As I began to operate in the Spirit, many of these things increased.  I have heard many times from Christians who were a lot older then me.  "I have Prayed and Prayed to do the things you are doing."  I would say to myself, "you have no idea what you are asking for."   As you say, " It is scary to just step out when you seem to have only God on your side.."  And that is a big part of it.  You feel like not only is there no net, but no high wire either.  And, the responsibility you feel when giving another a Word.  Or, a entire Church.  But, as you have shared Charles, the cost if you do not is to high.  It does become easier.  To experience your humble heart becoming a confident one, is Powerful.  As you mature in the Spirit, you are comforted by His Peace.  When you remove yourself from the equation, fear as little to attach to.  And, you can see and feel the Spirit flow with Freedom.  After all when you see ourselves as only a mouth piece, there is a lot of comfort in being a servant.  Thank you for sharing Brother.

Lord Bless

Permalink Reply by feet breath on May 30, 2012 at 9:25pm

Does it count to get an urging to pray? My dad and some people were out. For some reason I got an urgency to pray for them. I found out later that they almost got into a wreck. Is that what you mean? Is that the Holy Spirit urging the prayer? I heard it on Perry Stone before about the Holy Spirit urging us to pray.

 

Chris, you remember about the Lady at the Goodwill I was telling you about that day,right? I think the Holy Spirit was really urging me to pray for her.

 

For those who haven't heard. I met, well kind of but not really, a woman at a Goodwill. I didn't really notice her at first. I picked up that robot from the Jetsons. I also looked at a singing graduation 2011 duck with dark plastic sun glasses. I think it sung the chicken or some kind of song. I may not have even cared that much but it was interesting since it was the graduation year I was in. Kind of sentimental or whatever. Anyway, it seemed kind of selfish or vain to get it for that reason so I put it down. The lady next to me picked it up. She looked very sick, it was kind of hard to understand what she was saying. It looked like her bones was going through her skin (that's how skinny she was). I tried to show her how it worked. She got kind of upset with me. That hurt my feelings but it was best to just walk away and not say anything. Was I a little mad? Yes. I got an urge from the Holy Spirit to pray for her though. When He wants you to know something-He will let you know! I kept getting a really strong urge. Like Chris was saying about resisting the Holy Spirit. I did that for a little bit of time. Eventually, I stopped reisiting so much and He softened my heart. I prayed for her.

 

If we're talking about the Holy Spirit urging us to do something well here's some stories.

 

My parents and I were visitng family on my dad's side. We were at my aunt's house. There was kids there. I think a couple of them I didn't even know exisited until that day. You know how you can just tell the Holy Spirit is urging you to go do something? I love it when He "speaks". Anyway, He kept urging me to go by the one little boy, let's call him Andrew(not real name but close) who, who I think has downsyndrome, was sitting on the couch. I was reading/showing him the book or whatever he was looking at. Andrew loved that.

 

Later on I was out on or close by my aunt's porch. I kept getting an urge from the Holy Spirit to go see Andrew. I didn't for awhile. I kept getting the urge. Well, finally I did. Andrew was by the stairs. If I wasn't told to go see Andrew he may have fell down those stairs. Give glory to God...for only He knows what would have been the final results...

 

Also, in the same Goodwill, on a different day (this was months ago) I picked up a plush dalmation (the dad,Pongo from 101 Dalmations). I heard a little girl say how that girl took the dalmation or something like that. Guess what happened? The Holy Spirit urged me to give her the dalmation. Her mom was happy.

 

He uses a viarity of people and things to get whatever He thinks should be done,done. And, when you hear His voice-He makes sure you hear it. His voice is soft and gentle but He makes it clear.

 

He also makes things clear when He uses scripture. Like 2 Corinth. 12:9. For me He repeats it over until I get it. He will have it appear in a book or on a blog or whatever. He's very pacient.

 

Also, if He's told me something and I still don't quite get it He will confirm it with another believer. For ex. I wanted to know how to tell them the gospel or something. The answer I got? It was to love them. He confirmed it by using Tammy H. on AAG. She said in one of her discussions love was one of the best ways or something like that. He eventually confirmed it with someone else (it was in an email).

 

I apolijize if that was long. That's not everything I've learned from Him, only some things. Chris is that like what you were talking about?

Permalink Reply by a servant (Chris) on May 30, 2012 at 10:15pm

Sister you did not go on to long.  And, yes what you are sharing is exactingly right.  To add one thing about His Voice, " And, when you hear His voice-He makes sure you hear it. His voice is soft and gentle but He makes it clear." We have that Peace that cannot be mistaken.  It may take time but that is OK.  Also, looking for those confirmations can be so important.  The more we obey the finer tuned our hearing becomes.  The more we learn we are vessel used by the Spirit, for others the better.  It is not about us, it is about God and others.  We also learn we carry a responsibility, this can be the difficult part at times.  

Thank you Sister for sharing you included so important points.

Lord Bless and Keep you

Permalink Reply by feet breath on May 31, 2012 at 8:01pm

Actually, there was something I forgot and really should mention.

 

I remember it was right before Jesus saved me 2 years and 2 days ago(He saved me on May 29th 2010).

 

Someone told me to continue to search for God (it had to be a demon or Satan).If I would have done that I wouldn't have been saved by Jesus that day. I heard Someone else tell me something different. I was told not to harden my heart to the Holy Ghost. If I did than my heart would have ether be so hard I'd never come to Christ or it'd be so hard it'd be extreamly difficult that I'd ever come to Him. I heeded His warning. Jesus saved me afterwards. I know the Holy Spirit is pacient. But, when He is telling you something urgent you can tell when He's serious. He was that day. I've heard Him before when He was quiet. On that day though He spoke "loud" enough for me to understand. I thank Him for that.

Permalink Reply by Charles Burwell on June 2, 2012 at 8:35am

Feetbreeze

 

I realize that you were addressing your question to Chris but I would like to add a little to the comment.

You asked , " Does it count to get an urging to pray ?" .  I must say that this is one of the most common ways that the Spirit leads us  . I believe  that the "urging to pray" is God's ways of helping to 'fine tune ( for lack of a better word ) our spiritual ear to hear Him.  I believe ( my opinion only ) that the Lord tests us in the more simple ways before He trusts us to move out into more 'open' ways .

 

By that I simply mean that He 'fine tunes' our spiritual ears in 'private ( more or less) before He sends us out  ( as Chris was refering to ) to others .   When I say ' in the more simple ways ' I do not mean they are less important by any stretch of the imagination . I simply mean  that they are less visible or interactive . 

 

A wise man once said that " we should never talk to men about God until we have first talked to God about men " .  I believe that  God wants to be sure that we are ' hearing Him right ' before He sends us out to help others .   When He is confident that we are " hearing Him rightly " ( again a poor choice of words ) He is able to use us in more interactive ways. 

 

Again I am , by absolutely no means , minimizing the importance of intecessory prayer .  I'm simply saying that our responding to His  " urging to prayer " is our way of showing the Lord that we are willing to be used by Him in any other way that He chooses.

 

God bless you as you follow the urgings of the Lord in you life.

Permalink Reply by feet breath on June 2, 2012 at 9:31am

Charles, do you mean that He helps us out by something small like "urging to pray" as one of the basics before He teaches us something more complex?

 

God bless

Permalink Reply by Charles Burwell on June 2, 2012 at 10:31am

Dear Feetbreeze

 

I'm not to good at times with making my point which is why my comments are always so long.

 

As I read your question the Lord gave me a much better explanation for what I was trying to say.

As you well know Jesus is called the great shepherd .  It was once explained to me some very interesting things about the shepherd/sheep relationship.

 

 1)  a sheep must be trained ( for it's own safety and benefit ) to respond to it's master's voice. 

       In the fields the sheep are so busy eating that they aren't looking for dangers around   them while the shepherd is constantly on the look out.  The shepherd must even deal with them sharply if they aren't responsive  ( all too familiar to me ) . For instance , the shepherd may actually have to injure the wandering sheep so that it cannot wander off . But the beautiful  part of that picture is that the shepherd will then carry the sheep until it is healed.  This will  help the sheep understand that the shepherd seeks only it's good.

 

    2) the sheep must be trained to respond to the masters voice above all others .  In the middle east shepherds may pen their sheep in the same sheepfold at night for safety . However , in the morning there could be much loss or confusion when the shepherds are sorting out the  sheep to lead them out to pasture . It is therefore vitally important for the sheep to recog nize their own masters voice when he calls them out in the morning.  And amazing as it may seem the sheep will only respond to their own masters call and therefore the sheep and shepherd are confident that they are all together and with their master who loves and  cares for them. I assume that's what Jesus was refering to in John 10 where He said 

" My sheep hear My voice  and I know them. "" I know that's not an exact quote but I'm sure you are familiar with the scripture that I am refering to .

 

This is , to me anyhow , an excellent example of the Lord working in us .  The more we learn to "hear ' His voice the more the Lord can trust us .   I don't recall from the explanation of the shepherd/ sheep relationship that  was given to me exactly how the middle east shepherds trained the sheep to reconize their voice alone. 

 

It seems as though this person told me that the shepherd kept the the young sheep very near to Him as they were growing and intentionally kept others from the young ones so that they would not be confused until they 'learned His voice".

 

 As I said , I'm not 100% sure that's how he explained it  but that explanation would seem to fit the working of the Lord in our lives.

 

Perhaps in a more direct answer to your question I would say that the ' urge to pray ' is indeed one of the ways He tests ( maybe not the best word ) us to see if we will respond when He 'calls ' and if we are being diligent to discern His voice from anothers .

 

I have no cut and dried formula to learning to ' discern ' the Lord's voice exept to say that the more we commune with Him the more ' familiar'  His leading will become and the more readily we will be able to discern His leading from anothers. 

 

I am one who ( perhaps to too great an extent ) thrives on simplicity . I am just simple minded enough to believe that if we are sincerely seeking the Lords guidance and will that His Spirit will reveal it to us in a way beyond question to us.  And the more He sees that we understand the more He will trust us to do.

 

I pray that I haven't confused you more than I usually confuse people. I understand perfectly what I'm trying to say but it I often have trouble communicating to others what I'm talking about.  I guess the Holy Spirit needs to interpret my rambling  to people.

 

Anyhow , I 'll close because   I'm rambling again.  God bless you as you seek to grow in the Lord and  to seek and discern His will .  Don't be overwhelmed because you have the Holy Spirit to lead and guide you into all truth.

 

God bless

 

Permalink Reply by feet breath on June 2, 2012 at 11:00am

That's atleast a little easier. I've heard the Holy Spirit before. He has a certain way/s to let me know He's speaking. He's very pacient.

 

I like simplicity as well. The Holy Spirit, thankfully He takes things a little bit at a time with me. He knows I can't handle alot at once. I'm slow spiritually.

 

Don't feel bad. I have trouble communicating to others as well. I know what I'm saying but explaining it to others isn't a strength. 2 Corinth. 12:9 is a nice one to ponder on though.

 

God bless you as well.