All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
Losing Salvation?
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If you could not give up your salvation voluntarily, then once you become saved you could then go ahead and do whatever you wish. You could steal, murder, cheat, lie, never pray, reject the scriptures, lead others astray, blaspheme God from morning to night - do anything that is sinful, rebellious, and against the laws of God. And you could do all this never confessing and never repenting. To believe that "once saved, always saved" is believing that one has a "license to sin" after the person is born again."
LOSING YOUR SALVATION -http://robertwells.tripod.com/losingsalvation.html
YOU CAN'T LOSE YOUR SALVATION OR HAVE IT TAKEN AWAY BUT.......
When you were saved you turned to God. Turning to God means the you have committed your life to trusting and obeying God. In John 1:6-7 it says, "If we claim to have fellowship with Him, yet we walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, then we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son, purifies us from all sin."
According to this text, "If we walk in the darkness, then we do not live by the truth." If our heart is not repentant when we sin, if our attitude is one of disobedience to the Laws and Commandments of God, if we turn away from God, if we live a life of sin, if we decide the effort to lead a Godly life is not worth it, if the actions of our lives indicate that we no longer desire to be one of God's children, then we don't lose our salvation, and salvation isn't taken from us, but we through our own free will, take our salvation and give it back to God. We tell God we don't want it. We give it up!!!
Ezekiel 3:20 "If the righteous turn from their righteousness and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumbling block before them, they shall die".
If you could not give up your salvation voluntarily, then once you become saved you could then go ahead and do whatever you wish. You could steal, murder, cheat, lie, never pray, reject the scriptures, lead others astray, blaspheme God from morning to night - do anything that is sinful, rebellious, and against the laws of God. To believe that "once saved, always saved" is believing that one has a "license to sin" after the person is born again."
So ask yourself this question. What is the only way to gain eternal salvation? There are a great many verses that tell us the answer. Below are just two of them:
Ephesians 2:8-9 "By this undeserved kindness, indeed, you have been saved through faith, and this not owing to you, it is God's gift."
1Peter 1:5 "Those who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed on the last day.
God makes salvation completely available through Jesus Christ - and not only to specific individuals, but to all who will receive and believe in Jesus Christ as savior. Jesus made this very clear when he said, "Whoever believes in me would not perish but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) The word "whoever" includes everybody. No person is excluded from the opportunity to believe and receive everlasting life.
Your relationship with God, as well as your eternal salvation are based upon faith. Faith that Jesus Christ is who, and what He says he is. And thus if you are committing those sins mentioned in the above paragraph, then you simply don't believe who Jesus is. A person practicing the above sinful actions, certainly indicates that the person no longer has any faith or belief in Jesus Christ.
In other words you can not walk in the darkness unrepentant and still hold onto your salvation. Keep in mind that repentance is much more than stopping the very act of committing those sins that you are asking forgiveness for. Repentance is actually the act of turning away from doing those sins, of not committing them anymore, of changing your life in such a way as you no longer want or desire to commit those sins. You are the one who decides whether to walk in the light or the darkness. God gave you the free will to make your own choices. If you decide to walk in the darkness then your salvation will not be taken away from you, nor will you lose your salvation. No, what you will do is give up your salvation. You will be telling God that your salvation "is not worth the effort it takes to walk in the light". That you do not wish to have his gift of eternal salvation. That you want to make it through this life on your own without any help from God. That you will follow the ways of the world rather than the ways of our Lord. So your own free will determines whether you are going to keep your salvation or give it up. God allows your eternal future to be in your own hands.
Since your own free will is what determines your eternal destiny, then it is very important to note that God will not force anyone to come to him. He is not going to get down on his knees and beg you to believe him, trust him, or accept him. Nor will he force you to love him or demand your obedience. The choice is up to each one of us whether to surrender our lives and our hearts to God or to refuse his love and his blessings. If you don't want any part of Jesus Christ then he is willing to accept that decision since it was made by you through your own free will.
Our Lord did tell us that once we are saved, once we are looking to him for everything, once we have surrendered completely to him, then no one could snatch us away from him.
John 10:28 "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand."
So you can't be snatched way, but you sure can walk away.
There are a great many examples of this in the Bible but my favorite is in the book of Mark. It has to do with the story about the time Jesus arrived by boat to a town where he met a demon possessed man who was living in a graveyard. (You can read the entire story in Mark 5:1-21, and it is a great example of people exercising their free will and possibly putting their eternal salvation in jeopardy).
The Bible mentions that this demon possessed man was unusually fierce and dangerous, so much so that the townspeople could not even use the roads in fear that they would be harmed or even killed by this demon possessed man. The demons who resided in this man recognized Jesus and even talked with Jesus, and they knew that Jesus had the power to expel them from the man. So the demons seeing a herd of pigs in the distance, told Jesus that if he was going to expel them from this man, then would Jesus allow the demons to enter into the herd of pigs. So Jesus expelled the demons and the demons left the man and entered into the pigs. Suddenly the pigs realized something was terribly wrong and every single pig rushed over the cliff to their death. The pigs evidently realized that they would rather be dead than to have those demons living within them.
Now the pig herders saw all this happening and they went to the town and told everyone all the details. Verse 17 tells of the townspeople response. "Then the people began to beg Jesus to leave their area." So the response of the townspeople was to tell Jesus to get out of there because they were holding Jesus responsible for the destruction of a whole herd of pigs. They were furious at Jesus because of this economic loss. All that these people could do was to scream at him because they no longer had this herd of pigs. So you can see that the people's only concern was the economic loss of the pigs.
What is really interesting is Jesus's response.
Jesus didn't try to explain to the townspeople that they no longer had to worry about this very dangerous demon possessed man. That he was no longer a threat to their safety. Nor did Jesus ask them if they wanted to know why this formerly demon possessed man was now able to sit there quietly, fully dressed, and in his right state of mind. Nor did he try to tell them that if he could expel demons from this man, then just think of the demons that he could expel from the rest of the townspeople. Neither did Jesus ask the people if they wanted to find out more about this man who could expel demons or why he even did what he did, or why he even came there in the first place. And Jesus certainly didn't argue with the people that the price of the pigs was rather small compared to their peace of mind and their eternal future. Jesus didn't even ask these people if they wanted to learn about the one who sent him. Jesus didn't do any of these things because he could see that the only thing any of these people really cared about was the economic loss of the pigs. They had their minds all made up and money was the number one thing in their lives. They exerted their free will and told Jesus to leave town and leave town now. They had exercised their free will.
Using their own free will, those people wanted nothing to do with Jesus. Their only interest was in worldly things and because of that, they told Jesus to hit the road and go some place else and kill pigs. Jesus knew exactly what was in their hearts, and that their minds were closed to anything that Jesus had to say. So what did Jesus do? Jesus simply turned around, boarded the boat and proceeded across the water and went into his own city. Without a word, he simply turned and left, and very possibly took with him their eternal salvation.
John 15:1-2 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He removes every branch in me that bears no fruit. Every branch that bears fruit he prunes to make it bear more fruit".
John 15:6 "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch, and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned".
1 Corinthians 10:12 "Therefore let him who thinks he is standing, beware, that he does not fall".
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Yael Levi-Bénédict on
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LT,
Thanks!
You said: You are asking for perfection from imperfect people. There is a difference between being perfect and being perfected. Further you said that I am frustrated because I am looking for answers in MAN and not GOD.
Firstly, let me say that I find it a rather hasty assumption of your part. You hardly know me so you should not jump into conclusions. I am NOT looking for answers in man, but questioning what man say about their faith. I am merely asking questions for my own benefit, not to put any-one on the spot.
I feel that I might have upset you because I said that I find it difficult to accept that THE Saviour would want His followers to be SO THOUGROULY divided in issues so relevants such as SALVATION. If Christians do not agree on this fundamental point, how can there be any certainty that the entire message they believe in is true?
I am not saying that it isn't. Just try to put yourself in the position of those who are not believer yet?
Also, I dont understant what you mean by a 'born again' Christian. Are there other type of Christians who are not 'born again'? Could you please explain it to me? -
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Yael,
My goal is not to offend, but to address what is said. If I have offended you, I apologize and ask that you forgive my offense. You have no need to fear offending me. It takes a lot to get under my skin. :-)
You said: You are asking for perfection from imperfect people. There is a difference between being perfect and being perfected. Further you said that I am frustrated because I am looking for answers in MAN and not GOD.
Firstly, let me say that I find it a rather hasty assumption of your part. You hardly know me so you should not jump into conclusions. I am NOT looking for answers in man, but questioning what man say about their faith. I am merely asking questions for my own benefit, not to put any-one on the spot.
The following is what you said previoulsy that has led us tot his poing and is being posted in italics in order to give clarity to this.
Yael said: That is a very convenient answer, which I admittedly reject. But I respect your opinion, even though I think you are wrong.
As a non practicin Jew looking into Christianity with the sincere purpose of conversion I think that it is sad that Christians ( who claim to have the True Faith) cannot actually agree on what they believe, because they have NO authority to resolve conflicting arguments.
...its quite frustrating...
My response was the following to your statements and again in italics:
LT said: The frustrating part is only frustrating because you seek to find the answer in man, meaning that unless man is in full agreement with each other the whole must be false according to your premise. Your premise is in error because it relies on man instead of God. We see imperfect man being drawn to the God who is perfect. This perfect God is perfecting us, but we are still in these earthen vessels and we begin our journey of the new life as babes and must grow in maturity and strength.
Please note that you said this topic/situation is frustrating to you. I was responding to your frustration. I am reading your words and finding that you are frustrated because man cannot agree. This again is what I responded to. If you look to man to be in agreement to prove Christianity you will always be left wanting. Nothing here is meant to demean you, but address what you have said as I read it.
I feel that I might have upset you because I said that I find it difficult to accept that THE Saviour would want His followers to be SO THOUGROULY divided in issues so relevants such as SALVATION. If Christians do not agree on this fundamental point, how can there be any certainty that the entire message they believe in is true?
The response here requires a little overview. 1) Not everyone who calls themselves Christian is Christian. There are many out there that teach false doctrine that the fundamentals of the faith refute clearly. 2) We are not talking in this thread about how one gets saved. This is clear in Scripture and debated by only some, but the majority clearly accept that God’s Word says we are saved by grace. 3) The confusion comes in regarding how that salvation is retained and for some what actually takes palce at the moment of salvation. Both groups love Jesus and seek to grow in grace and love, but one says there is a line that can be crossed if a person turns back. The other says there is no line because God is the one who is responsible for keeping us (much more to it, but a brief synopsis). We are not in disagreement about Jesus, the Trinity, the blood, the Holy Spirit, and many other primary doctrines. The area of disagreement does not destroy the truth, because truth is not dependent upon flawed man, but a holy God. We ever desire to be perfect, and once born-again we are being perfected (Php. 1:6)
I am not saying that it isn't. Just try to put yourself in the position of those who are not believer yet?
I can’t put myself in your shoes, I got into trouble for that already by assuming … a little humor please :-) An honest response to the comment is this. You look to the differences man has regarding doctrine, when the starting point is what God says about His Son, the Living Savior, the Lamb of God, God with us, the Living God who came as a babe in human form. Examine the creeds and the things we believe and agree upon and you will find that the road leads to Jesus and Jesus leads to salvation, being born-again.
Also, I dont understant what you mean by a 'born again' Christian. Are there other type of Christians who are not 'born again'? Could you please explain it to me?
My response will be followed by a link to help you understand this term. Being born-again literally means to be born spiritually from above. We come to the point where we see our sin and our need for a Savior. We see that Jesus is the Son of God, the Lamb who came to die for us. All this is revealed to us by the Holy Spirit (Jn. 16:8-11). We in response to this come to Jesus through the grace of God in faith and repent of our sins asking Jesus to forgive us and we surrender unto Him as Savior. We are then changed spiritually (2 Co. 5:17), we are sealed with the Holy Spirit (2 Co. 1:22), We are indwelt by Christ (Col. 1:27), we become the children of God (John 1:12). Jesus says the following in John 3:
JN 3:1 Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2 He came to Jesus at night and said, "Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him."
JN 3:3 In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again. "
JN 3:4 "How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"
JN 3:5 Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, `You must be born again.' 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."
JN 3:9 "How can this be?" Nicodemus asked.
JN 3:10 "You are Israel's teacher," said Jesus, "and do you not understand these things? 11 I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man. 14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.
JN 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."
That is the thrust of it. God comes in and changes us. We become His children.
Web link:
http://www.gotquestions.org/born-again.html
Note: I will not tire of trying to address your questions as long as we are able to stay civil (not implying, just clarifying) and not enter into a circular debate..
Lord Bless,
LT
TheNET Coordinator -
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Permalink Reply by ScribeD on
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Yael, forgive me for interjecting in your conversation with LT - but this is an open forum and I think I have some experience in seeing things from your point of view.
Your concern seems to be that you are having a hard time coming to accept Christianity because Christians are not fully in accord. If I may be so bold, I'll tell you that this issue confounded me as much as you, at one time.
Here is what I have concluded: the truth is with God, not men. God is not afraid to allow mankind to make errors. In fact, He uses them to teach us. There are many good examples of how God has allowed the divisions of men work to illustrate his glory and power. I have a couple of good examples to share, but first let's consider LT and I:
I don't know LT, but I respect his commitment and his deep convictions. I have never met him aside from here, but I am convinced by how he carries himself that he is a man led by the Holy Spirit. However, there are theological issues about which I do not agree fully with LT - and at times we have debated some topics. Yet I call LT a brother and listen carefully to his insights to God's word. For there are far far more things upon which I know that we agree than disagree. I'll list a few:
1. LT believes there is one true God, revealed to mankind in 3 persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
2. LT believes the Bible is the true word of God, inspired by the Holy Spirit through the authorship of mortal men; that it is the only revelation given specifically from God to all mankind.
3. LT believes that Jesus of Nazareth is God's chosen Savior - in fact that He is God made into the likeness of humanity. That Jesus is the only savior, because God has not given another and no one else qualifies for the job; that we must obey his Gospel to be saved.
4. LT believes that there is an ultimate judgment coming, where we will all stand before God and that we will give an account of how we lived in this body. That there is a resurrection of the dead, both saved and lost; the saved to eternal glory and the lost to eternal damnation.
These are key points revealed in God's word and I can say that I'm confident that LT and I agree with God on these matters.
Now, I have never asked LT his specific position on these topics. I don't know what denomenation he comes from, where he lives or even how old he is. But, I'm confident on these matters because LT is a born again Christian and these are essential facts of the Christian faith.
So, we are in agreement and we are not in confusion - as you perceive. All the rest of the things you are asking about are subject to determining our understanding and applying of those key matters. I'm confident that those issues are essentials which a person must grasp at some degree to be walking in the light of God's grace. We all learn to understand and apply those key points in our lives as we walk with Christ.
The matters which LT and I would disagree upon are trivial and subject to those essentials. -
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Yael,
To what Scribe has said I can only add that I have a strong respect for Scribe and know that we don't agree on everything, but we do agree on the essentials and so much more. I agree that the matters which Scribe and I would disagree upon are trivial and subject to those essentials.
Lord Bless,
LT -
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Amanda,
The fact is He has helped you. You now embrace that truth. Rejoice in the truth, today. Why would He wait? I could speculate a lot of reasons, but the truth is that not everything can be explained in A-B-C fashion and to speculate would not be wise or fair. This I do know, "being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus." (Philippians 1:6 NIV)
Lord Bless,
LT
TheNET Coordinator -
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Michelle, I have not read the entirety of this forum discussion, so forgive me if I am adding something that has already been discussed.
I think sometimes we can get caught in a trap of looking only at outward appearances, in the short term, and miss what God is doing. Looking at Jesus statement in John 15:1-6 which is the basis of your premise, we can consider scripture and find examples.
One good example is the relationship of Kings Saul and David. God cut off Saul; but not until after He first pruned David. When God was pruning David, it may have looked on the surface to the observer that God was opposing David, in favor of Saul. In fact, I'm certain there are many who believed that - until after Saul's demise.
Another example would be the four favored Hebrew youths of the Book of Daniel. There were many Hebrews taken slave with them. Yet, we only know the names of four. It may have seemed to the other Hebrew youths that these were being cut off by God, when they were thrown into the furnace.
Our challenge is to be careful not to judge from outward appearances. This is hard. We can easily think that circumstances which look favorable are "God's blessing" and that circumstances which look bad are "God's curse". In the life of Joseph, we see that the exact opposite was true. God used hardship to forge something in Joseph that could not have happened any other way.
God's design for us is to grow and bear fruit. God's plan for how we get there can be difficult. What God wants from us is a heart that is yielded and willing. Each of us is challenged this way - when God visits us and affects our world, changes the known situation, is to react with humility and faith. The people at Gadarene were more concerned about their reputation, than about the man who was delivered. They apparently didn't care about him, or about the state of their standing before God. None of them cared to ask Jesus what this meant, and how they should respond. Apparently, they were unwilling to bear fruit.
Each of us is therefore challenged to have a heart like Joseph or David, and trust God through difficulties. To remain humble and willing to bear fruit - so that when God visits, we are able to be His branch. -
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Permalink Reply by Michael Vernon McEntire on
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Amanda, questions of this sort indicate you are still laboring under a kind of legalism that is a yoke of bondage. I'm afraid that you don't yet know God's message of reconciliation and our freedom in Christ. God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself, not counting their trespasses against them. It's not a matter of whether or not Saul or David or anyone else broke the ultimate rule or too many rules, or committed some sin that God cannot forgive. It's a matter of whether or not they knew God and loved him. If we love the one true and living God, then he enters into an eternal covenant of marriage (intimate love) that says "I will NEVER leave you or forsake you."
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Permalink Reply by Gayla on
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Once we allow him entrance into our lives, he begins the work of transformation, that is not ended until we are taken to the next world. His Holy Spirit takes away our desire to sin....he does not make us perfect, for their is only one that is perfect....and that is God the Father.
What we once allowed, be begin to dis-allow, and this is a gradual process.... some move along more quickly than others in this.. because they choose to read, pray,and seek God more...therefore they grow faster.... some may leave out of here, in the baby stage.....never having grown at all. Having received the gift of salvation, but, never actually growing in the things of God.
God is a good God.......all the time, when we are good, or when we are bad...and I think he knew exactly what it was going to take to get us where he wants us to be, before........he drew us unto him to begin with. -
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Permalink Reply by Phebe on
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Oh, if you have truly met Jesus your salvation is sealed. He said "believe in the Lord Jesus and thou shalt be saved." For He is so lovely you just want to please him. The Bible says "by their fruits ye shall know them". And "if you love Me keep my commandments". If one claims to know Jesus as Lord and Savior and continues to sin Hebrews 10:26 If we decide to go on sinning after we have learned the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins. 27 There is nothing but fear in waiting for the judgment and the terrible fire that will destroy all those who live against God. 28 Anyone who refused to obey the law of Moses was found guilty from the proof given by two or three witnesses. He was put to death without mercy. 29 So what do you think should be done to those who do not respect the Son of God, who look at the blood of the agreement that made them holy as no different from other's blood, who insult the Spirit of God's grace? Surely they should have a much worse punishment. 30 We know that God said, "I will punish those who do wrong; I will repay them." And he also said, "The Lord will judge his people." 31 It is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Jesus is all together lovely, all together holy and once you've found him, truly found him everything else looses it's charm. Yes, sin is fun sometimes, but, make no mistake about it, it's deadly! When we stand before the Lord, don't we long to hear "Well done my good and faithul servant".
God bless you. 1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not appear what we shall be: but we know that, when He shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. PTL -
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Permalink Reply by Edwin Muir on
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Bless your heart M.
Even Paul knew of the robber that could dissuade him into neglecting so great salvation.
Phil 3.11 ;If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Even the lukewarm shall be spewed out.Having tasted the powers of the world to come but returned to thier own vomit as dogs and the beggarly elements of this world.Gal 4.9 -
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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Hello brother Edwin,
I always enjoy your posts and hope you don't feel like my purpose in offering my opinion about what you have share is in anyway ill intended. I just love to discuss these issues and if you or anybody else can show me biblically that my understanding of the word is wrong then i will love you for it.
Even Paul knew of the robber that could dissuade him into neglecting so great salvation.
I am in complete agreement with your statement above that our enemy and our flesh can persude us against a life in holiness, we can be deter and discurage and neglect our great salvation, yet that does not mean we can lose such a great salvation, which was initiated and will be finished by the author of it. Salvation is of the Lord.
Paul in Phil. 11-14 "Not as though I had already apprehended" Paul insists upon this, that he may convince the Philippians that he thinks of nothing but Christ -- knows nothing else -- desires nothing else -- is occupied with no other subject of meditation. In connection with this, there is much weight in what he now adds -- that he himself, while he had given up all hinderances, had nevertheless not attained that object of aim, TO KNOW HIM, and that, on this account, he always aimed and eagerly aspired at something further. How much more was this incumbent on the Philippians, who were still far behind him? Our salvation for now is a sure thing but yet it is in hope, the inheritance indeed is secure; but we nevertheless have it not as yet in possession.
Paul is not talking about attaining eternal life or assurance of his salvation at all, rather he goes on to state that "I reckon not myself to have as yet apprehended" He does not here call in question the certainty of his salvation, as though he were still in suspense, but repeats what he had said before -- that he still aimed at making farther progress, because he had not yet attained the end of his calling. He has been "apprehended of Christ Jesus."
Apprehended is a strong word, Paul is going no where, but to Christ and to know Him more.
Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot,.... A lukewarm professor is one that serves God and mammon; that halts between two opinions, and knows not what religion is best, and cares little for any, yet keeps in a round of duty, though indifferent to it, and contents himself with it; and is un concerned about the life and power of godliness, and takes up with the external form of it; and has no thought about the glory of God, the interest of Christ and truth; and this was too much the case of this church, at least of a great number of its members; wherefore it was very loathsome to Christ, hence he threatens:
I will spew thee out of my mouth; this shows how nauseous lukewarmness is to Christ, insomuch that on account of it he would not own and acknowledge her as his; but even cast her out, unchurch her, and have no more any such imperfect church state upon earth, as he afterwards never will, this is the last; nor is there any church state, or any remains of one in Laodicea; it is indeed quite uninhabited.
Having tasted the powers of the world to come but returned to thier own vomit as dogs and the beggarly elements of this world.Gal 4.9
8. Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods. 9. But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
How can one turn to those things we did before, when God has called us to freedom Gal. 5:1 Still farther to heighten the blame, Paul corrects his language, and says, or rather have been known by God. The greater the grace of God is towards us that he reminds them that they did not choose God but rather God chose them. The origin of our calling is the free election of God, which predestinates us to life before we are born. On this depends our calling, our faith, our whole salvation. He is emphesising to them the folly of their choice, but this does not mean God is not faithful.
2 Timothy 2:11-13 (New International Version)
11 Here is a trustworthy saying:
If we died with him,
we will also live with him;
12 if we endure,
we will also reign with him.
If we disown him,
he will also disown us;
13 if we are faithless,
he remains faithful,
for he cannot disown himself.
For your name's sake, O LORD, preserve my life; in your righteousness, bring me out of trouble. Psalm 143:11
Psalm 119:25 I am laid low in the dust; preserve my life according to your word. -
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David,
This statement is confusing:
we can be deter and discurage and neglect our great salvation, yet that does not mean we can lose such a great salvation
So if Linda deters, discourages and neglects her great salvation by going out and murdering someone and not repenting - yet I don't lose that great salvation?
Having difficulty with that one David.
It is true that God can bring us into repentance after we have committed that offence but I believe we can resist the will of the Father with our own free will. I can resist the Father's prompting to repent, die and then what? Am I saved?
I don't think so:
1Co 6:9 Or do you not know that unjust ones will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be led astray, neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor male prostitutes, nor homosexuals,
1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor covetous ones, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor plunderers shall inherit the kingdom of God.
This is my opinion - if you do not repent of that sin then you will be lost. If you do not turn from your wicked ways you will be lost.
I do believe that the Shepherd can keep us but we can resist Him - we can shut the door in His face thereby sealing our own fate.
God bless you!
Linda Ruth -
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