All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
tithing
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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Becky,
I hear you loud and clear. One of the things I love about being in Christ is the fact that our family indeed is worldwide and what a blessing a community such as this one is to my life, but beloved you are very articulate, which leads me to believe that you are very intelligent and I also see God's wisdom in your writing so i know you will agree that the corporal worship of the saints cannot be substituted with the knowledge that our family is world wide or with this sites blessings of fellowship.
Because you testify to Love my God and Lord i take the liberty to speak to you in Love and as my family and encourage you not to give up on fellowshipping with the saints in a physical way. I know you can recall how beautiful it is to worship God in the congregation, even when the leadership is not all God would want it to be. There are times in our corporate worship that are precious and unique to worshiping God in unity.
It is sad that so many churches fall into unhealthy practices, but keep asking God to guide you to a place you can call home.
With brotherly love and for His service your bro Dave.
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Permalink Reply by betty j. maye on
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WOW becky i have never experience this! i have been to several chruches and a member of 2 different churches and i have never been told that if i choose not to tithe i can't be a member. in fact if i had been told that i would have told said church - see ya! how dare they treat you like this?! the church i was a member at the longest - the pastor chose not to even be a part of the committee that knew who was tithing and who was not!! you can't mandate members to live a certain way - everyone grows at different speeds and this is almost playing God in my opinion.
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Becky,
God gives us the freedom to choose and you have the right to stay away from church, but would discourage that as I believe the Word of God teaches us to gather together in the name of Christ in local congregations. There are so many positive benefits from being in a good body of believers that truly care for one another in the good times and through the bad times of life. Food for thought: Would you give up eating because you got food poisoning from one meal? Of course not. You might be a little more cautious about the next meal you eat, but you surely will eat again. On earth there is no perfect church (institution, gathering), but God still calls us to gather together. When one finds the right church they are truly blessed.
Not every church receives what is known as tithes. In our church we take time and give people the opportunity to "Worship through Giving." I, the pastor, have no idea what anyone gives and don't want to know. We use the money to pay overhead cost, fund the spread of the gospel locally and support missions around the world. Regarding the pastor and a salary. This will sound like symantics, but assure you it is not. I do not receive a salary as pay for my work. I receive compensation to free me up that I may be engaged more fully in the work of God.
You have to believe that there are good churches out there that care about you and love Jesus. The body of Christ is not contained in church buildings or gatherings, but we are called to gather together and to share our gifts with one another. What church may greatly benefit from your gifts? What gifts do others possess that might greatly benefit you? You may develop some good friendships on the internet, but it will never be the same as face-to-face and elbow-to-elbow as we journey through life together. One last thought, at the risk of being long winded, "Sheep need each other and there is a roaring lion running loose."
Lord Bless,
LT
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Permalink Reply by Theresa on
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Dear Becky...:) I am going to ask you one question. What do you think those big churches are doing with the money besides paying for the pastor's salary and the big buildings? My local church gave over 100,000 in donations to different groups, where do you think they got the money to give in the first place?
I got saved through watching the 700 club, who support such a program to reach someone like me and so many others every second of the day?
This is in response to a statement you made and it is kind of scary because I am saying this out of experrience again and please my sister do not shoot me down, okay? You wrote I told my husband I saw no reason for us to continue paying tithes. We could not afford it anymore.
My sister, I made the same ugly mistaske because I told my husband also things to do that I should never ever told him to do. Eve told Adam to eat the apple that God told him not to eat. Sarah told Abraham to sleep with Hagar and it brought Ishamael, think about that. I think it is a very dangerous thing when the woman leads in the house and not her husband. Believe me when I tell you and may God bless you in Jesus name.
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Permalink Reply by Ginnybee on
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Hi Betty,
I believe in the principle of tithing, but do not believe anyone should force another into the practice. This is what Scripture shows us- Mat 5:17 '"Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill."'
I believe it's important to continue following the laws outlined in the OT, but at our own will. No one should privilage their self to assume that a non-tither is a worthless heathen. The Lord covers all our inequities with great compassion, and that is how we ought to interact with eachother, compassionately. And as for your other question--should our tithe come out of our net income or our gross--I don't have a good answer, sorry. I personally think that it should probably come out of the gross income, but that's just me. I saw Theresa gave some good responses. I agree with her on this (and probably on all matters of interest, lol--love ya sis Theresa). Pray God for better clarity and He will answer you.
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thank you Ginnybee and i agree Theresa had very good points and i appreciate you all.
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Dear Ginnybee :) Your comment here No one should privilage their self to assume that a non-tither is a worthless heathen. The Lord covers all our inequities with great compassion, and that is how we ought to interact with eachother, compassionately. is so anointed and Amen my friend to all you said, it conforms what I believe too, we who are obedient to our Lord with giving back what already belong to Him should never look down at others who do not because for one reason and only one reason, it is God who gives the revelation, it is the Holy Spirit who will speak to the person who is not obeying and all we can do is pray and wow and Amen, it is because the Lord covers all our iniquities with great compassion. (And I love U too sis Ginnybee).
And for Viliame, God bless you for the truth you shared here, your comment is like a tall glass of cold water on a hot day, you are a blessing and I thank God for you brother.
And thank you Betty for your kindness, you all have a happy prosperous new year.
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Permalink Reply by Viliame Naisauau Saukuru on
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Hi Betty
Tithe should be deduct from the gross income of what you get. The gross income should be given to you due to other deduction made from our package that is why we have net income. So what I'm say here before any deduction made to you pay 10% should be deducted first for God.
Secondly, We should all give tithe, if we not we are robbing God. This is what the Lord said
Malachi 3:6-9 "I the Lord not change. So you, O descendants of Jacob, are not destroyed. Ever since the time of your forefathers you have turned away from my decrees and have not keep them. Return home, and i will return to you," say the God Almighty. But you ask, How are we return? Will a man rob God? Yet you rob me. But you ask,How do we rob you? In tithes and offerings. You are under a curse - the whole nation of you -because you are robbing me."
Tithing is Holy and it should be done. He gave everything to us free of charge, air,sunlight,snow everything also the strength,breath of life we have it all given by Him without charging us a single cent. So do not hesitate to give Him back what He deserve from you - Tithe and Offering
Please just read through Malachi 3:6-17 my prayer the Holy Spirit[The Spirit of Truth] will guide you through the truth of tithing.
God Bless.
Brother In Christ - Viliame N Saukuru
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i just want to thank you and all others who took the time to respond to this question. it truly blesses me to see other Christians caring enough to help each other by answering questions. i believe i have learned something from each response. God Bless!
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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Hello sis (Char),
As I stated on the first page of this discussion, we should not use Matthew 23:23 to make a case for tithing since that verse was spoken by our Lord before He had abolish the Law. He came to fulfill the law, but once it was fulfilled, it was also abolished, as scripture teaches in Ephesians, Galatians, Romans and Colossians. I am not referring to the moral law, the Ten Commandments, but the ceremonial, Levitical, as well as the laws instituted for those living in a theocracy, those laws were done away with.
If I am not mistaken, modern tithing was instituted by churches that were in debt about early 1900's. The Roman Catholic Church did not and does not now require it.
Abraham did not tithe as the modern church tithes, nor did he tithe regularly from his income or work. The tithe he gave, a onetime tithe was customary practice in the ancient world. It was a tithe from the spoils, not from first fruits. The Jews ended up paying approximately 23% of their income, not just 10 percent, because they lived in a theocracy.
New Testament born again believers are not commanded by God to tithe, UNLESS THE HOLY SPIRIT TELLS AND INDIVIDUAL TO DO SO.
You should tithe from your net and not gross, since you tithe from your income tax return.
The primary thing with this topic is that no member of the body of Christ should be made to feel obligated to do so by a pastor. There is much abuse in this topic within the body of Christ.
This tends to be a hot topic, so lets be loving when we share.
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on
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Char, the kind of church I was attending also said we give based on what we gross and taxes are just like any other thing we must pay but if we give according to net, then we are paying "ceasar" first and not God first. In other words, do I give after I receive my net income and after I deduct living expenses and car and house payments, etc ... or do I give to God first and trust God to help me pay my taxes and other things?
Over the years I know I have not given as I should have given ... simply because I didn't know how. My take on this topic now is pretty simple.
1 Cor 16:2 is often quoted for this topic. When I read the OT, I see many rules. OT rules spelled out worship -- giving, keeping festivals, all of it. The rules were information for who, what, when, where. But they didn't seem to get that God provided them with the knowledge for how to worship, too. It almost seems that in the NT we are trusted to design our own worship. They gathered together on Sunday. Was it up to them? They didn’t have a clear tithing rule in percentages but they gave gifts and offerings. Was it up to them? We tend to want rules but does God want us to decide now and then we can see how our decision honors God? Deuteronomy 8:17-18 is often quoted. Everything we have, we have because God has produced it for us. As God gives to us, we give back – in keeping with our income. Fear keeps people from giving and so does greed. Greed says it’s mine. Fear says I don’t have enough. Jesus tells us the story of the widow who gave two mites. 2 Cor 9:8-10 seems to sum things up for us. Can we take God’s word for it? God is honored when we give. As the reader, we don’t learn the ways in which the widow was blessed after she gave all that she had because the text never follows up with her story but we do know that Jesus did not stop her and did not say don’t give your two mites but keep them because it’s all you have. Instead, in what Jesus said when He witnessed her gift, basically, He was saying that she gets this ... she trusts God. Others were giving out of their abundance and trusting in themselves. Many people have a lot of information – information provides the answers to who, what, when, where. Knowledge is different. Knowledge answers how. We are to be cheerful givers and that often means fighting back the fear and the greed because our attitude is important and as our trust in God grows, giving becomes easier.
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