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Trinity
I want to know more about the existences of this trinity and some fact to proof it from the scripture. Thanks
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Hellofull on
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To all:
I am sorry if I have offended anyone, it was never my intention to do so. Please continue your search for the truth.
"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. (I Timothy 2:3-4, New King James Version)
Examine your beliefs... just like many of you have examined your former beliefs. Follow what Apostle John teaches the Christians:
"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world." (I John 4:1 New King James Version, emphasis mine)
Not all spirits are of God. Examine what you have believed in, for not all wisdom comes from above. (James 3:15)
You read again and again the verses you use to prove your beliefs. Don't you think it is more important to base our beliefs in the words of God than understand the words of God base on our beliefs?
Hellofull.
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Hellofull,
I can only speak for myself. I am not offended, upset or frustrated. God gives each man the privilege to believe whatever he chooses. You believe I am wrong and lost. I believe you are wrong and lost. Only one can be correct. This is not about man being correct, but what does God say. We differ on many levels. You and I interpret the Scripture differently, at least to a degree and enough so that it affects this important doctrine that has everything to do with salvation. I will add, at the risk of sounding arrogant, that I do not believe in the Trinity because I was taught it as a child. I have researched the Bible and history, trusting in the Holy Spirit to guide me in to the truth and light of God regarding this subject. I neither sought to affirm or destroy the doctrine. I simply sought the true doctrine regarding the Trinity.
LT
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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Hellofull,
You have not offended me, I pray I have not offend you. Please read the bible asking God to lead you to all truth. Put aside all outside aids, except the Holy Spirit's, even all our attempts to help you see those passages different, put them aside and go to the One, the source of pure Truth.
CAN YOU DO THAT - HAVE YOU EVER DONE THAT FRIEND?????
I pray that is or becomes familiar territory in your daily walk- everyone here has done one thing and one thing only - that is to love you with the truth - by helping you see the error you have believed. That is all.
1 Corinthians 13
Love
1If I speak in the tongues[a] of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames,[b] but have not love, I gain nothing...
8 Love never fails.
Abraham was an old man when our Lord called him to leave everything he knew to be familiar and take on a new journey. Come on Hellofull take on the new journey of learning from God. Let Him mentor you.
Be blessed and a blessing and thanks for trying to save us man, but have believed the Truth!
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I prayed, and kept on praying. And blessed I am for I am praying to the true God.
I will never consider the Holy Scriptures as an outside aid to understanding the truth. If by outside aid, you mean products of man's knowledge.
Hellofull.
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Well - you missed or ignored my point friend and I do understand yours - you are simply saying that what you know to be truth comes directly from the bible. Well then friend - there is nothing more to say then.
IT SHOULD BE OBVIOUS TO YOU BY NOW THAT YOU ARE NOT ACCOMPLISHING ANYTHING BY CONTINUING THIS ARGUMENT, if anything you are only helping us to exercise our ability to refute erroneous doctrine. For that - thank you.
I am not giving lip service only when I say, I love you in Christ. I do, I mean it. You have invested yourself in learning and teaching what you believe to be the truth, and I respect that, but must say, your belief system about the nature of Jesus is wrong.
I am sure (I hope) we have a lot of things in common in many other doctrines, but differed in this essential one.
Only God knows if He considers those that do not believe Him to be God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit to be saved. I will not dare to comment on that beyond what I have written here.
Be blessed. Merry Christmas to you and your love ones.
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Permalink Reply by Theresa on
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Hellofull
john 10:30 Jesus says: I and my Father are one.
31 then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
Can you stop and think for a moment, who is saying this to Jesus, accusing Him of blashemy, accusing Him of being equal to God, they are the Jews, who did not believe in HIM, in CHRIST, Who He says to be.
Now, are you imitating the ones they did not believe in Who Jesus says to be?
One more thing, if you have respect for Jesus, enough respect, then why are you judging and giving all these scriptures claiming that most of us Christians are liars.
I do not agree with you and I believe that we all should tremble at Jesus words and take them seriously because the way we judge, we will be judged.
Another thing, I honestly have never heard of anyone claim some of the things you are claiming about God and Who Jesus is and I would like to thank God for bringing you here to show me Who I am really believing in. I believe in God my Savior and His name is Jesus and I am trusting God for not letting go of you my friend and that goes for all of us. God is faithful.
I would like to ask you to take time and ask Jesus to show you about Himself, Who He is? Spend time with Him, Jesus loves you, He died in your place and when your time comes, He will take you to heaven, He prepared a place for you there, for all who believe in HIM and trust IN HIM. No one is able and will be able to do what God did. God did the impossible for us humans to do.. God came through the Holy Spirit in the human flesh on earth and died for us, He came in the form and likeness of Jesus Christ, He alone was able to do that, no one else can and is able to do that, that is why Jesus is God, He alone has the right to say He is God.
Jesus loves you and He wants you to be blessed so do I,
Theresa,
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Theressa
I am not telling you that Christ is man because I am imitating any Jew. But because that's what Christ and His apostles said He is. (I Tim. 2:5, Acts. 2:22, John 8:40)
You should be asking yourself that what you said. That you haven't heard the teaching that Father is the only true God and our Lord Jesus Christ is a man sent by God. It's long been taught by Christ and His apostles and long been written in the Bible you are holding. (John 17:1, 3; I Cor. 8:6)
Hellofull.
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Permalink Reply by Carla on
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Dear Helloful,
I am not offended.
I believe that Jesus is God because the Holy Spirit leads us into all truth. That truth is that Jesus is God.
I have not spent my study time trying to prove or disprove that fact. I simply prayed to God that I wanted to know Him. The Holy Spirit continues to teach me according to scripture. The more I seek Him the more I find Him.
God's promises are for all mankind. Please always be open to learning... Scripture tells us that not many should become teachers...only those with a calling and annointing on their lives...such as LT has.
~Carla
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LT,
you said this:
"God refers to Himself repetitively as "I AM." Thus, when Jesus proclaied that "Before Abraham was, I am" he again is making the claim of His deity which would be extremely fresh in their minds having just read the Book of Isaiah. Note their reaction. Verse 59, they picked up stones to kill Him. Jesus claim to be a man in verse 40 is accurate and His claim to be a God in verse 58 is also accurate, because He is both full God and full man. There is no contradiction or loss of meaning when we take the word in full context and compare Scripture with Scripture letting it be the judge."
If we are to accept that Jesus was claiming His deity just because God referred to Himself as "I AM" and He (Christ) said "I am." Not just Jesus would be accused of blasphemy by the Jews... you know for the fact that in the Bible, Jesus is not the only man that referred to himself as "I am".
The Jews again misunderstood what Christ said, because just like what you said... it's fresh in their minds that the word "I AM" refers to God. In your case, there is also something fresh in you mind when you read these verses. It's fresh in your mind that Christ is God, thus when you have read "Before Abraham was, I am" you understood it as "Before Abraham was, I am, the God who calls Himself "I AM", but Jesus never said that... that's just in your mind and the Jews' mind.
Do not think beyond what is written (I Cor. 4:6)
Hellofull.
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You are trying to tell me that the Jews were right about their understanding that Christ claims to be God. Your proof is that Christ never corrects, refutes or denies their assertion. Let us quote their assertion then:
Negative. I state that they understood His comment to mean that he claimed to be God. They did not agree He was God. This is both evident in the fact that they wanted to stone Him for making the claim and He did not refute their assertion.
"The Jews answered Him, saying, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God." (Juan 10:33, NKJV).
They accused Christ of blasphemy, because being a man He make Himself God. Blasphemy to them therefore is when a man claims to be God. You are wrong about Christ never corrected them.
"Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your law, 'I said, "You are gods"'? If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'? (John 10:34-36, NKJV, emphasis mine).
Christ answered them not by saying that He is God, clothed with flesh claiming to be God. But by asking them a rhetorical question, "do you say... You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'"?
And the Son of God as laid out here is still understood to be God. If the application you applied above were true, two things would be voided. They would have said here in John “Oh, I get it” and dropped the rocks. They did not. Also by your logic the words spoken at the trial would be in error too.
MT 26:62 Then the high priest stood up and said to Jesus, "Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?" 63 But Jesus remained silent.
The high priest said to him, "I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God."
MT 26:64 "Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."
MT 26:65 Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, "He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy. 66 What do you think?"
"He is worthy of death," they answered.
The chief priest understood His answer and knew He meant the Son of Man from Daniel. Again a claim to be God and thus they charge Him with Blaspheme.
Christ made it clear to them that what He claims to be is that, He is the Son of God and not God Himself.
Nope. Just the opposite.
In John 20:28, granting without accepting that Thomas was not corrected. You are trying to tell me Thomas was not mistaken because He was not corrected. It would imply that if Thomas was mistaken he should have been corrected by Christ.
All Jesus had to do if Thomas was wrong is say “No Thomas. I am not God.” If Jesus had said that to Thomas we would not be having this debate. But, knowing that God knows all things He would not leave such an omission that would cause us to believe the error that you wish to present if Thomas were in error.
Following your argument.
"But they were terrified and frightened, and supposed they had seen a spirit. And He said to them, "Why are you troubled? And why do doubts arise in your hearts? Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have." (Luke 24:36-39, NKJV, emphasis mine)
Jesus is not only Spirit because as God He willingly took on the human flesh through the incarnation. He then went on and died and was resurrected in the new flesh. Their assumption if not corrected would lead us to believe that after the resurrection we would have only a spiritual form, instead of the resurrected body. He corrected their error and let the truth of Thomas’ words stand.
When Christ corrected the Apostles when they thought they saw a spirit. You have created an argument against your own belief. You said Christ is full God (God is spirit, Jn 4:24) and full man. Why then did Christ corrected the Apostles if they were correct that Christ is a spirit?
Their assumption was not fully correct and He corrected the part that was missing in their assumption. This is about understanding the resurrection and the resurrected body. Put the two events in their context and there is no confusion.
LT
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I said:
You are trying to tell me that the Jews were right about their understanding that Christ claims to be God. Your proof is that Christ never corrects, refutes or denies their assertion. Let us quote their assertion then:
You said:
"Negative. I state that they understood His comment to mean that he claimed to be God. They did not agree He was God. This is both evident in the fact that they wanted to stone Him for making the claim. He did not refute their assertion."
If you'll continue on doing that... It'll be hard for me to know what it is that you are really saying. I'm not used to putting any meaning of what anyone says. So please be consistent.
You said:
And the Son of God as laid out here is still understood to be God. If the application you applied above were true, two things would be voided. They would have said here in John “Oh, I get it” and dropped the rocks. They did not. Also by your logic the words spoken at the trial would be in error too.
That didn't happen because even after saying such, they (the Jews) still did not understand... (like some of the guys here)
Hellofull
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My words have been very consistent. They did not believe He was God, only that He said He was God. We differ on how you worded your comment. We differ on your use of the Word "right" and how it could be applied in this context to mean several different things. My response was for clarity.
LT
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