All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
Is Obedience to God necessary for salvation?
I like to read all the replies here, they are very insightful and thoughtful.
The reason for this question, is that I've read more than one reply that states that there is nothing left for us to do regarding salvation. Is this biblical?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by ribbon on
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roy mentined something me looking at others sin. What I am trying to say is how many of us are in danger of hell fire. How many people have false assurance of their salvation. Roy also mentioned that maybe I have seen more.... I am unsure of that but I have seen people who never speaks of the Lord who seem very anti Christ yet when asked if they are saved they will instantly say yes. That is dangerous. I am NOT sayig this to point fingers, I am saying these things because they are true.... the bible says so.... You know the but Lord Lord ...... I don't think they only believed because of their works.. I believe they really thought they were saved. Maybe I am figuring out why I know I am not saved. Not only because of being rejected but because Im so dirty and not in a vulgar way.
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Permalink Reply by Seek on
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Janie, these are reasons we have to take the entire Bible into context.
Humility is knowing that of yourself you CANNOT do anything, apart from Christ, i can do nothing. Grace is knowing if you DO sin, you have forgiveness of sins IF you're repentant and remorseful (you truly want to do better and simply haven't mastered it yet)...that's the part about sanctification where things, perhaps even trials can prompt our worst behaviors so we see how we act and try to change our response to circumstances...we pray on that particular area and ask God to help us see our behavior beforehand, help us to cut it off before it gets started. We learn to be more patient under enduring these trials. And we let patience have it's good word so we can become complete. This is where the Bible says to remove the beam from your own eye before removing the spec from another's eye....so we don't look at others' sin, but we look at our OWN actions and do our best to work with God to change us inwardly. Paul speaks of maturing, so we also remember that the one professing Christianity and sinning may not be mature. He also speaks of false prophets, so they may be liars and you have to ask God to help you discern and if you find they're not Christian, you treat them with love but don't obsess over their Christianity. We must each work out our OWN salvation...with Christ, cause it is Christ working in us.
As I've said before, if you honestly feel you're not saved, you KNOW how to correct that, right now, right here, if you truly and honestly are concerned with your salvation. You also need to keep seeking God for a revelation of your salvation cause as long as you continue believing you're not saved, satan will have a field day with you.
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I know I have smack in my eye I know I am not saved. I have never looked at smack in others eyes until they looked at mine. I am trying to stay on topic of obedience. People are led to believe that they can do wat ever..... I have relatives that believe this way.... and it isn't safe. I am concerned and not judging . I could go back to my old ways and laugh at these crazy Christians who will burn with me. Yes I was that stupid. I know I should be concerned for my own salvation.... Im not as much as I should be but I am. I wish I could explain my thoughts without seeming to be a snooty woman who is looking at others snot. That's not what I am doing. I am saying false assurance is being taught by folks misunderstanding what born again is. When you have some sinners hearing that it doesn't matter what you do or don't do that it is Jesus grace that saves... They may be only hearing the part to do as you please. My head is hurting really bad right now. Maybe somewhere down the road someone will understand me and what I am trying to say.
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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Janie
What you have said is very important. This is why when we talk about the assurance of our salvation or the Grace that saves us, apart from works, we try to balance the topic by also talking about the necessity to change. That our faith is dead faith without works and how we should avoid falling into the lie that being saved gives anyone freedom to sin.
We are save to live Holy Lives. It is our Father's will for us to be holy as He is holy.
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Permalink Reply by RoyW on
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Yes, obedience is very important. It does make our lives go much smoother. However, the question is: is obedience necessary to salvation. I know some pretty wild characters that are very wonderful guys but still pushing the middle of the line a little. James does tell us that works are a sign of faith. However, Jesus shows us that He is willing to wait on the individual. He is not cast away until every opportunity is given him to produce that which is necessary. During that waiting period, is that individual saved or lost? I have to say he is saved. Really, only Christ knows whether or not a person is saved and has the authority to judge accordingly. I am mighty grateful that some of the believers I know are not going to be my judge.
No one is advocating sin but recognizing that we do sin over and over and over and over again. As far as I know I have never met that person that is completely obedient. I have met some who are really struggling to be obedient and even some that will give the appearance of being so. I have been told by others that they have perfectly obedient for over forty years. I could tell you about one person that spoke in front of a holiness crowd and said that he had been sanctified for over forty years and had never committed one sin during that time. The problem was that I had that person in my home and knew him pretty good. He was selfish, self-centered, demanding, and pretty prideful. As far as I know he did live a very high moral life.
Perhaps I am just not a good judge. Maybe I expect too much out of that person that indicates he is obedient to all of God's demands.
Our sins are absolutely forgiven. There is no sin that is not under the blood. Sometimes we put so much emphasis on obedience that we fail to understand that during our times of struggle, we are still covered by His blood.
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Yes, obedience is very important. It does make our lives go much smoother. However, the question is: is obedience necessary to salvation.
And I believe this is part of the reason for that. For 45 years, I was a very selfish, irritable, person. My family has always called me a grouch and rude, and well...some other things even less nice. And I admit I have been an irritable and rude person (but not considering myself rude then as I just didn't "think").
When I accepted Christ, I did NOT stop being irritable, selfish, rude, etc. But over the last 3+ years, I've learned more and more how not to be those things. I do them less and less each day. So if I feel real bad one day, backache, neckache, every muscle aching, and I get grumpy, does that mean I stopped being a Christian?
Being irritable and grumpy, etc....those are what Joyce says people call "respectable sins" and she just calls them being ugly. She freely admits to being like that too and it took years for her to change. It's not that she was disobeying God, she just didn't know how NOT to be the way she'd been all her life.
And the person who is in love and tries not to sleep with their boyfriend/girlfriend before marriage, yet in a weak moment, they slip and they feel so terrible over it, so they try next time to push away...maybe they slip again, and feel even worse and cry out to God, and they truly truly want to not do that (fornicate), but it is something they've fallen prey to all their life. And perhaps that is why they're falling prey now, to show them where they need to grow more, where they need to fight harder. They can either say oh well, and do it again and again and stop praying for change, and say they've backslidden. Or they can say "God PLEASE change me and help me overcome this" and perhaps limit their alone time with the boyfriend/girlfriend. Maybe seek an accountability partner. That's the difference. One wants to change and Christ knows their heart. The other is not interested in change OR...they were interested but were so beaten down that they gave up figuring they could never be obedient. Only God knows that as well.
This is why we're told to obey and yet given forgiveness when we fail. Another thing Joyce points out is some commands in the Bible we find harder than others. Then she gives a pronounced pause, then shouts out LOVE YOUR ENEMIES! ;-)
Do we truly love them when they hurt us deeply? Are we being loving when some dude cuts us off doing 90 in a 70 mph zone, jumps in front of us then slams his breaks? Many times I find myself shaking my head at them and wanting to say "moron", then I say a simple prayer that God protect people from them and protect them from themselves. And I try to remember how I used to drive just like them. And then remember how I wouldn't have said moron years ago, but would have cursed them, flipped them off, held my horn down a very long time, then road their butt all the way down the road to tick them off. LOL Good thing God has changed some of my behaviors! ;-)
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There are false teachers out there and perhaps these people who feel they don't have to be obedient have fallen prey to such false teachings, perhaps they're simply not really saved and don't want obedience but just an assurance of heaven and think they can have it.
Even Paul asked the foolish Galatians who had bewitched them? They had heard the gospel and yet were falling prey to some false teachings. We simply tell the Word like it is and pray for God to enlighten them to the truth.
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I wouldn't have said moron years ago, but would have cursed them, flipped them off, held my horn down a very long time, then road their butt all the way down the road to tick them off. LOL Good thing God has changed some of my behaviors! ;-)
LOL , This reminds me a little of how I used to be. Speaking of moron drivers. I remember I was much younger than I am now. My mom talked me into going to town with her. I didn't want to because of my fears. We were in some heavy traffic and this huge box fell in front of us. Mama couldn't go to either lane because of traffic so she tapped on her breaks and stopped. The car behind us finaly was able to creep us beside us. Instead of him keep going he gaulked in the car seen it was just us and called my mom a stupid B. This guy was huge... but my stupid self went through the window to almost the top of the car and said some very mean and ugly things to this man. For some reason he shut up , I thank God when I look back at how I was. That man could have shot both me and my mom. Anyway just a memory. :)
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Permalink Reply by Carla on
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The humility is in acknowledging one's need for Him and in obeying Him. It does matter that we obey Him.
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Hallelujah. After reading these responses this morning, I am very blessed. God has done everything for us. There is nothing left for us but to receive all He has done. There is no set plan. There is no list. Everything has been done. The table is set. Come and dine. The work is completely finished and I did nothing. All is done for me. He left nothing to me. He saved me by His divine grace. The obedient life comes after salvation - certainly not before.
When I read the blessed story of Grace, I believed. Believing is not a work, it is a part of us. It is the response of the child of God who hears His Father and brightens up like a light bulb. His Father speaks to His heart and he hears Him and knows Him. Blessed are those who hear and believe. How beautiful are the feet of them that tell the story of God's grace. Jesus has risen and has conquered everything for us.
We all must cease from our labors and find rest in Christ. We are eternally His. The work is done. It is finished.
I am singing with Fanny this morning as I read your replies:
- Blessed assurance, Jesus is mine;
Oh, what a foretaste of glory divine!
Heir of salvation, purchase of God,
Born of His Spirit, washed in His blood. - This is my story, this is my song,
Praising my Savior all the day long.
This is my story, this is my song,
Praising my Savior all the day long. - Perfect submission, perfect delight,
Visions of rapture now burst on my sight;
Angels descending, bring from above
Echoes of mercy, whispers of love. - Perfect submission, all is at rest,
I in my Savior am happy and blest;
Watching and waiting, looking above,
Filled with His goodness, lost in His love.
If you click on this link, you can sing with me.
- Blessed assurance, Jesus is mine;
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As Amanda said, there is rest for our souls. And, by the way, if you have not been too successful at that obedient life that follows salvation, don't be too unsettled for we are all there with you. Submit to Him. Admit you can do nothing on your own. Admit you are a hopeless failure and need all from Him. I cannot succeed in the least. My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus Christ. On Him I stand. I rest in Him. I submit my soul to His grace and mercy. I submit my life to His plan of salvation. I take nothing to myself but give Him credit for all. My life is lost in Him. I no longer exist as an individual. I exist but I exist in Him. I am lost in Him. I am no longer my own. I am purchased by His blood. O, please find that peace that only comes from Christ. In Jesus name.
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