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sinning
hello,
i have heard many times how if we repent and then keep on sinning, we haven't truly repented, as well as that if we keep on sinning, we are a slave to sin (rather than a slave to God)
but on the other hand, people always make it clear that just because one becomes a Christian, that doesn't mean they will become perfect, and indeed that we will never get to sinlessness in this life.
what can be done then?
please help
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Voice of the Bride on
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It is a good subject and this one I have found for you to read.
http://myredeemer.org/foundation/identity/
We live by our new identity in Christ. We don;t want to loose the Holy Spirit also (the Ruach HaQuodesh)
I am in an evangelic church and I also celebrate the appointed feasts of the Lord. But to loose the Holy Spirit is the worst thing to happen. When we seek Yeshua (Jesus) daily and ask Him what the roots of our problems are, He will always show us in His Word and in daily life by all kind of examples. He is never changed. Today, yesterday and tomorrow. We are as born again believers living by the Blood and the resurrection power and not in the flesh anymore. So again in this new identity.
(Hebrews 13:8) we all want to be transformed and our old nature is dead for sin. Galatians 2:20 this is what will stay and the rest is not to mention even as true believers) but the answers here are really very good. Blessings from the Netherlands
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Permalink Reply by Colby on
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Jenny,
When we're born anew by grace through faith, we become new creations in Christ. Paul the Apostle writes in Romans that we're no longer "slaves to sin" as we were previously. "Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. ... For sin will have no dominion over you" (Rom6:12,14).
So, if we're dead to sin and freed from its mastery by God's grace, how could a Christian continue in sin? The very idea seems absurd, doesn't it?
No, I'm not saying that the born again Christian is capable of, or that God expects, sinless perfection.
But, if someone professes to be a Christian, yet continues to live as though nothing has changed in their lives, continuing in habitual sin, aren't they still "slaves to sin?" How can it be said that Christ dwells within them; that they are possessed and directed by the Holy Spirit?
Saving faith isn't just a matter of believing. Faith has an objective component to it as well. By that, I mean simply that a new kind of living is the result, and indeed the proof, of our justification before God.
Our faith in Christ isn't something we compartmentalize, involving only a part of us. It involves the whole of our body, mind, spirit and soul; that is, the whole of ourselves. Are we operating on the level of our lower base natures pursuing the "things of the flesh," or on a higher level, in union with Christ, pursuing the things of the Spirit?
Each of us, then, if we have truly been born again, should be able to see the fruit or evidence of a saving faith, of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, in our lives. As Christians, we aren't perfect and we aren't sinless; we aren't yet set completely free from the dominion of sin. This condition, along with the sufferings and persecutions that afflict Christians, calls for endurance. But this endurance or perseverance to the end is the Christian hope that will be rewarded with eternal life. The Spirit in everything cooperates for good with those who love God. Remember this: the initiative is God's and not ours. We have been adopted as God's children, the character and nature of his son is being grafted on to us, and he will complete the good work that he has begun in each of us.
God's best to you! Christ's blessings on you. Be bold and loving with God's gifts,
Colby
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Permalink Reply by Richard L. Broch, Sr. on
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Greetings in Christ, Jenny,
You have Christian brothers and sisters around the world praying for your peace and understanding.
And, I gotta tell ya........you've had some excellent posts reaching out to counsel and pull you up here.
Let me add my two shekels:
Chill out....it seems you're being too hard and demanding on yourself. Jesus tells us in Matthew 12:31," Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven.".
The fact that you are so concerned about your situation indicates you have not committed that one............
God knows everyone's heart thoroughly. Included in Genesis 8:21, He says,"............for the intent of man's heart is evil from his youth;.......". Jen, we are all born with a sinful nature. So, when we come to Christ through repentance, and grace through faith, we start a period of sanctification( I like the way Colby puts it - a lifetime of change).
Remember, the apostle Paul says, "We are crucified with Christ, nevertheless we live.......".
It means the sinful life in our heart is being put to death the way our Savior was - SLOWLY. It takes a while for God to create a new heart within us, because we're renovating the scrap and crap out that's been there.....with His help.
Psalm 51:10, " Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a steadfast spirit within me.".
Jenny, I think Romans 12:1 and 2 are applicable here: " I urge you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your well-pleasing spiritual service of worship. (2)And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect."
Remember, you're not going to be perfect (like as has been already posted). But it's a process......."until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ." (Ephesians 4:13).
Jenny, you're being conformed to the image of Jesus.
O.K., how do you do that?
To start with....I say again - chill out. God has forgiven you through Jesus's redemptive work on the cross.
Now, forgive yourself. ( A lot of people forget that).
Next, the Bible says to "pray unceasingly". The way we do that is upon awakening, it's like "logging on" with God.
All through our awake hours we lift up prayers of - praise, thanksgiving, guidance, and help. These can be short or
l-o-n-g. Pray in a conversational manner, like talking to a friend
Plus, read the four Gospels......Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Then read the rest of the New Testament. You can read the Old Testament when you're ready.
Find a good Bible preaching and teaching church......and attend services and Bible studies regularly.
Godspeed...and Grace be with you.
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Permalink Reply by emanuela on
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Everybody had very good perspectives on this subject.. but there is only one TRUTH. The opinions of the people around you are a good STARTING POINT. But never, ever take the opinion of someone or his/ hers interpretation of the word of GOD as substitution for the ACTUAL WORD OF GOD . We all tend to believe what we want to believe, or pick the verses in the Bible that are more convenient to believe in and tend to put on second place the ones that are too challenging , the ones that make us uncomfortable, but remember there are NO CONTRADICTIONS in the word of God, they are ALL TRUE . Unfortunately we let ourselves be brainwashed by commentaries and mainstream preachers because it it much easier instead of doing the work ourselves to read ALL OF THE WORD OF GOD ourselves . First PRAY and FAST for God to guide you and open your eyes to HIS WORD . And like with anything in life .. if it sounds too good to be true.. well it's not the truth. A SIMPLE belief in Jesus,WILL NOT SAVE ANYBODY. James says exactly this:
JAMES 2 :18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
Start reading the whole book of James ( which is actually Ia'akov ) the half brother of Jesus , then also 1,2,3 John.
I will tell you from my personal experience that there were many "little " sins I was still committing while believing that I was saved because I always soothed myself with the verses everybody loves, but one day the words of JESUS not PAUL woke me up and made me tremble ( this is not to say that PAUL's words are not true and divinely inspired but it is easy to take them out of context and twist them for our own destruction )
But here are the words of JESUS:
The Narrow Way
13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because[a] narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
You Will Know Them by Their Fruits
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
I Never Knew You
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
Build on the Rock
24 “Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: 25 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.
26 “But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: 27 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall.”
28 And so it was, when Jesus had ended these sayings, that the people were astonished at His teaching, 29 for He taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.
***Now .. every day I will remember these words along with the ones that PAUL said in
2 Corinthians 10 : 3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. 4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, 5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ, 6 and being ready to punish all disobedience when your obedience is fulfilled.
and then what JOHN said:1 JOHN 2 :2 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.
1 JOHN 3 : 4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. 11 For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another, 12 not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother’s righteous.
then the words of Peter
1Peter 1:13 Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 14 as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, as in your ignorance; 15 but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, 16 because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.”[c]
17 And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear; 18 knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, likesilver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, 19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.
So if we have the words of Jesus, Peter, John,James, and even Paul all saying we need to walk in Righteousness vs the few verses said mainly by Paul alone about only grace like this one :
Ephesians 2 :8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
But even in this verse we can see that we are to walk in good works. Is it possible that we take many of the verses that we uphold so high as grace vs works and we try to fit them to our convenience?? First of all Paul was talking about delicate things he addressed first to jews then to the gentiles from a jewish point of view about jewish customs IN THE CONTEXT of what was happening around them at that time . It is too much of a complex subject to get into here.. but consider doing your own research on this subject also something not to forget is that there are omissions in translations, because the TRANSLATION is the very first COMMENTARY - you are reading somebody elses's understanding of the original meaning, somebody trying very hard to make it sound grammatically correct in the language he is translating into I saw this myself because I speak 3 languages.. but I have a lot of trouble trying to translate the exact meaning without adding some of my own interpretation into it. Think about it IN THE SAME language we can all read the same thing and have different interpretations... even more so with a foreign language that most of the times we barely just grasp.
I remember studying about one particular mistranslation the Faith OF Jesus translated as Faith IN Jesus. Very different, isn't it? But don't TAKE ANYBODY'S WORD FOR IT , YOUR ETERNAL SALVATION DEPENDS ON IT ! Take 3 or 4 translations and read them side by side, get a Strong's Concordance, get GREEK AND HEBREW LEXICONS, it its the only way for you to learn the TRUE WORD OF GOD. We have all the means to study today, there's no excuse!
Biblegateway.com has multiple translations, download the interlinear bible, or use E-sword.
Study the verses that seem to contradict in their context, and go to the original hebrew ,greek words, see where else was it used in the Scripture and in what context. My eyes have been opened since I started doing this. It is important to do this because today most churches rely ONLY on PAUL'S TEACHINGS and they do exactly what PETER said:
2 Peter 3 : 14 Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; 15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
17 You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; 18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
May God Bless you all and guide all of us to HIM but if the path you are on it's WIDELY accepted .. you may be on the wrong path.. because it's supposed to be NARROW. I don't think it is impossible to be as close to perfection as you can. There were many sins that I could have made a choice against but I didn't because I thought it was impossible not to do them, because I was born with sin right? Wrong , I WAS ABLE TO STOP DOING THEM. So what changed? Me, my perspective... all I had to do is try harder... AND GOD knew this ..He knows how much WE CAN... He said it in Deuteronomy 30 :
11 “For this commandment which I command you today is not too mysterious for you, nor is it far off. 12 It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will ascend into heaven for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’13 Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will go over the sea for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ 14 But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may do it.
15 “See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil, 16 in that I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments, His statutes, and His judgments, that you may live and multiply; and the Lord your God will bless you in the land which you go to possess.
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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So, based on your own words here your comments are only your perception of the issue, including what you chose to highlight. Is that correct?
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as a reply to to LT - The Net Coordinator
Exactly.. regardless of what I chose to highlight it is only " my perception" and nobody should take that as more than what is is ONLY MY OPINION. But like I said it can be a starting point for anybody on the road to THEIR OWN OPINION. As far as I am concerned I wish more people would have expressed this view at the beginning of my walk with God, but in the end it was only my fault for being lazy and not studying the whole scripture. I was not the best I could be because I thought I did not really have to.. the blood of Jesus covers all... and no I'm not talking about so called big sins because I never ever did drugs, or slept around or even smoked even before I was born again. Yet there was pride, lies, gossip, envy and selfishness, and to my own surprise IT IS POSSIBLE TO BE BETTER. I AM DOING IT EVERY DAY choosing to crucify my fleshly desires every moment. Again this is ONLY MY OPINION.
But since adopting this view I can testify that God has made Himself known to me in dreams, visions and personal miracles more so now than before, so it works for me. If I am wrong and grace covers a lot more than I thought I loose nothing by trying to be better but If I'm right I also have nothing to lose.. maybe even to gain a bigger reward as I recall a verse right now that says in Matthew 5:19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. So maybe we are all right and we will all go to heaven.... but I know for sure I do not want to be one of the people to whom Jesus will say DEPART from me.. so somebody out there is WRONG and they ARE SURE THEY ARE RIGHT because they all call him LORD , LORD and they are healers and prophets.. Scary ISN'T IT? Jesus died for them too... but the only difference is in the key words... that they are workers of wickedness or evildoers or workers of iniquity,’workers of unrighteousness!’all you who do evil!'depending on the translation you have.
So for my own good and mine alone I choose to struggle every day and I know that GOD will see this and HE will judge me based on how hard and to what extent did I Fight..... is it as said in Hebrews? to the blood ?
In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood.
All I know is that we can't blame anybody.. but ourselves which is why we should not listen to anybody but pray , fast and study, study and more study the WORD OF GOD which should be our DAILY BREAD!
GOD BLESS YOU ALL!!
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Emanuela,
I agree with part of what you said and disagree with part of what you have said based how how I am reading you. Let me explain:
It is absolutely imperative that people be in the Word of God. We need to seek the Holy Spriit to guide us. I disagree with the idea that we all simply have an opinion. The Word of God is not open to personal interpretation. there is only one truth and we are to be seeking out that truth and not simply seeking our interpretation of that truth. Here is an example: One person may see the Scripture saying one thing and another have a different take. Both cannot be right and actually both could be wrong, but the Word fo God is never wrong. Thus, we cannot settle for the opinions of others or even simply our own opinion. With that said, some things are easy to see in Scritpure and some things are not as easy to see. Jesus is the Son of God, absolute truth and not simply my opinion. He is the Lamb of God, again an absolute and not just an opinion. Thus, we need to differentiate when we are speaking of absolutes and when we are sharing an opinion.
Lord Bless,
LT
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I totally agree with what you are saying as far as the fact that there is only one truth and we are to seek only that truth and regardless of all of our opinions that truth will never change, Jesus is the Son of God the absolute truth and HE IS THE WORD OF GOD , HE IS THE FULLNESS OF THE LAW. Now I must admit I don't understand what you mean by disagreeing with the idea that we all simply have an opinion. If what you are saying is that our opinions don't matter as far as the truth it concerned you are absolutely right . But based on how we interpret the word of God we can be in the truth or far from it and I called that various opinions.. maybe my expression was wrong.. But for lack of a better word there are many opinions out there as many as religions, but we are not " to lean on our own understanding" and only the Holy Spirit is the only one that can guide us . But obviously you can't say that the Word of God is not open to interpretation even though it is the ultimate truth. We see it every day, people are justifying homosexuality and adultery and whatever else with the Bible . They do not see the truth, even though it stares them in the face, because they twist the word of God to their convenience, some like you say simply don't see some things as easily in the word of God.
Unfortunately there will be many people who did not properly understand the absolute truth , even though they read the Word of God, believed in Jesus the Lamb of God , even had the Holy Spirit at some point because they are prophets and they can cast out demons , precisely the ones that Jesus will say to- Depart from Me . The wright or the wrong interpretation of the Word of God can bring somebody eternal Salvation or perdition.
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