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Victoria Osteen & the response
Victoria Osteen – the “response” that shows she is a typical false teacher
by Sandy Simpson, 9/8/14
It never ceases to amaze me how people who claim to be “Christian” leaders are apparently NEVER able to admit when they are wrong. Makes you wonder if they are born again because acceptance of the Gospel will cause a person to repent of their sins which then gives them access to the forgiveness of Christ when they sin from that point on (1 John 1:9). But be that as it may, Victoria, the “co-pastor” and wife of Joel Osteen, fires back at the article in the Christian Post entitled: “Victoria Osteen Ripped for Telling Church 'Just Do Good For Your O... by claiming they lied about what she said. She claims in her statement back to them in the article called “Victoria Osteen Chides Critics: I Didn't Mean Parishioners Shouldn... that they claimed that she said a person should not worship God.
"While I admit that I could have been more articulate in my remarks, I stand by my point that when we worship God and are obedient to Him we will be better for it," she told The Blaze in a statement Friday. "I did not mean to imply that we don't worship God; that's ridiculous, and only the critics and cynics are interpreting my remarks that way." (Christian Post, “Victoria Osteen Chides Critics: I Didn't Mean Parishioners Shouldn...)
That is not what they said at all. The title of the article is very specific in their correct analysis of her “ridiculous” statement – that she stated that “worship is not for God, it is for yourself”. So she lied in her response.
But the real problems are that she claims the following in her response:
"I just want to encourage every one of us to realize when we obey God, we're not doing it for God—I mean, that's one way to look at it—we're doing it for ourselves, because God takes pleasure when we're happy," she said in the 36-second clip posted on YouTube, with her husband smiling at her side. "That's the thing that gives Him the greatest joy … So, I want you to know this morning: Just do good for your own self. Do good because God wants you to be happy," she continued. "When you come to church, when you worship Him, you're not doing it for God really. You're doing it for yourself, because that's what makes God happy. Amen?" the clip ended as congregants cheered. (Christian Post, “Victoria Osteen Chides Critics: I Didn't Mean Parishioners Shouldn...)
So she not only did not apologize for her statements and lied about how people quoted her, but she reiterated their same, tired, false Word of Faith teaching again. She states that worshipping God is not for Him but for us. Why? Because when we are happy that makes God happy. Oh really? What about the stories of Job, Stephen, Paul suffering from a “thorn”, and all the other prophets and apostles who died serving God? They were not worshipping God so they could be “happy”, they were worshipping God because of Who He is!
Victoria has also not read the Bible, which you would think would be a requirement for someone to be a head pastor of a church. The Bible is clear that the thing that brings God “joy” is our obedience.
John 14:15 "If you love me, you will obey what I command.
John 14:23 Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
John 14:24 He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.
John 15:10 If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father’s commands and remain in his love.
1 John 5:3 This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,
Love and worship for God is not predicated on how we feel or the amount of joy we have. It is predicated on obedience to Him BECAUSE HE IS GOD! Victoria also tells her audience that they need to “do good because God wants you to be happy”. We don’t do good so WE can be happy. That may be a consequence of doing good, at times, but the important thing is that, in the most difficult circumstances, we simply obey Him because we know He will be pleased with us on that basis. But our “happiness” is not the end. But it is for the Osteens. Almost every word of every message from them is the New Thought idea that we can create our own little world of happiness by simply thinking and speaking positively. I have written about this idea, which is basically Karma, in an article entitled “Karma (by any other name)”. God wants us to submit our will to His, not willfully try to create our own reality that is often not in line with His purposes.
Finally, the scary part is that the “congregants cheered” after Victoria finishes her diatribe. This reminds me of a warning from the Old Testament against heretics like the Osteens:
Jeremiah 5:31 The prophets prophesy lies, the priests rule by their own authority, and my people love it this way. But what will you do in the end?
Someday every person who has ever been born on this earth will answer to God for their actions. You can either fool yourself into thinking you are happy because of your positive thoughts and confessions, or you can follow God and obey Him, thus proving your love for Him. Better choose correctly because “what will you do in the end?”
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by RoyW on
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So true, so true. I have suffered many, many of those things in my adult life. It appears to me that God desperately (I really don't think we can call God desperate) loves us. What He did for us is unimaginable in our thinking. I actually am so passionate about sharing that news that I have been dismissed from several congregations and denominations. Have you read the Book of Hosea? God's passion for His beloved comes screaming through that story. Israel might as well go ahead and just give it up. God is too good of a pursuer to lose that battle.
Discipline hurts for a season. In the end, our love grows deeper and deeper. He knows just what He is doing. We are way over-matched in this one.
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Permalink Reply by Tammy on
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So, Roy, you are actually so passionate about sharing that news that you have been dismissed from several congregations and denominations? What kind of churches & denominations were you attending that would give you the boot for sharing the gospel?
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Tammy,
Let me just say that all these were very wonderful people whose faith was in Jesus. Sometimes in our journey it becomes difficult to walk together because of our differences. I have been one that taught even before it was popular (I could teach what I believe in all these churches today) that salvation was free. I wanted people to know that God loves them so much and that He had forgiven them of all their sins. So many get the sense that there is something they need to do. I wanted them to understand that it was free. The full price had already been paid. Some still today struggle with that. The denomination that I had so many problems with has asked me to come back. I was very grateful for that. There is just one more hurdle left that I cannot yet hop over. But, I love those people and they still love me. I went to school with the district superintendent and we communicate quite often.
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Permalink Reply by ribbon on
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Watchman, you in no way set your self up as God. I can remember when I read the bible reading these scriptures you mention. I believed them to be factual the word of God. My backsliding besides the demonic attack... was triggered by a Christian whom thought sin wasn't sin unless God gave her a feeling that it was. Those scriptures helped me when I was learning about who He was . I just wanted you to know that not all Christians will say such things as this. Ok I will back out now.. I haven't followed this forum even though I looked in a time or two when you first posted it.
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Ribbon,
You are correct. I think a better description would be setting oneself up as speaking for God. I also believe the Scriptures mentioned. I believe in every single one of them. I believe them to be the factual Word of God as you.
Sorry that I offended you.
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You weren't talking to me RoyW. so your words didn't offend me. You were talking to your sister in Christ who is my friend and that is what bothered me. I don't understand why it is some of yall can disagree with others and still be ok but when she wont back down yall seem to come unglued and say and accuse her with ugly slander as you did . but any way I am fine thank you I accept your apology to me. I will be reading and learning from yall and wont interrupt again unless I feel led to. Good night Roy sleep well. Its good seeing you in the forums again.
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Ribbon,
The kind of thing I think we should avoid is making statements as if we know what someone else is thinking or doing. Here is an example of what I am speaking about:
Victoria has also not read the Bible, which you would think would be a requirement for someone to be a head pastor of a church. The Bible is clear that the thing that brings God “joy” is our obedience.
Actually, I think this statement is more foolish than offensive. This statement is in the original post. It is the same kind of statement that I was referring to when someone says, "Don't you agree with God?"
Ribbon, I feel we can raise the bar a little higher than that. And then the writer goes on to say, "The Bible is clear that the thing that brings God 'joy' is our obedience." I would agree that our obedience does bring God joy. However, is it "The" thing? Are there other things that may bring Him as much or even more joy? When does heaven rejoice?
I guess I found the article pretty close to ridiculous. But, I have probably said enough and need to be quiet and let others speak.
Blessings. It is 10 here in Wyoming but probably much later where you are. Have a great night.
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Permalink Reply by Mary O on
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Mornin' Roy, God bless!
This verse came to mind this morning...
I have no greater joy than to hear that my children are walking in the truth. (3 John 1:4 NIV)
I love this verse. To me, it's how to give God joy. :-)
Love,
Mary
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Permalink Reply by Seek on
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the conflict that science has had with a young earth interpretation
The conflict comes because they're trying to explain the earth via man-made scientific methods, forgetting there's a God who trumps all science and/or logic and can create anything He wants in any fashion He wants so that they will be stumped with their theories of an ancient earth, cavemen and dinosaurs.
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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1Co 1:19-21 NIV84 For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate." (20) Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? (21) For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
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Yes, reason (wisdom) is of value, but we must understand what is meant by wisdom as defined in Scripture (Proverbs is a good read on this subject).
We also need to post the full verse from Isaiah and a few extra to understand what yo quoted. The reasoning together is not talking about men reasoning together, but rather an interaction between God and man.
Isa 1:18-20 NIV84 "Come now, let us reason together," says the LORD. "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool. (19) If you are willing and obedient, you will eat the best from the land; (20) but if you resist and rebel, you will be devoured by the sword." For the mouth of the LORD has spoken.
Definitely not a debate, but God instructing the man.The Bible also says the following in Proverbs 3, taking special notice of verse 5.
Pro 3:1-24 NIV84 My son, do not forget my teaching, but keep my commands in your heart, (2) for they will prolong your life many years and bring you prosperity. (3) Let love and faithfulness never leave you; bind them around your neck, write them on the tablet of your heart. (4) Then you will win favor and a good name in the sight of God and man. (5) Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; (6) in all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make your paths straight. (7) Do not be wise in your own eyes; fear the LORD and shun evil. (8) This will bring health to your body and nourishment to your bones. (9) Honor the LORD with your wealth, with the firstfruits of all your crops; (10) then your barns will be filled to overflowing, and your vats will brim over with new wine. (11) My son, do not despise the LORD's discipline and do not resent his rebuke, (12) because the LORD disciplines those he loves, as a father the son he delights in. (13) Blessed is the man who finds wisdom, the man who gains understanding, (14) for she is more profitable than silver and yields better returns than gold. (15) She is more precious than rubies; nothing you desire can compare with her. (16) Long life is in her right hand; in her left hand are riches and honor. (17) Her ways are pleasant ways, and all her paths are peace. (18) She is a tree of life to those who embrace her; those who lay hold of her will be blessed. (19) By wisdom the LORD laid the earth's foundations, by understanding he set the heavens in place; (20) by his knowledge the deeps were divided, and the clouds let drop the dew. (21) My son, preserve sound judgment and discernment, do not let them out of your sight; (22) they will be life for you, an ornament to grace your neck. (23) Then you will go on your way in safety, and your foot will not stumble; (24) when you lie down, you will not be afraid; when you lie down, your sleep will be sweet.
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