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Suffering and turmoil - what is God's role?
One answer or understanding is that God ALLOWS "bad" things to happen as part of His over-arching plan but He doesn't CAUSE them to happen. Ephesians 1:11 says that God works all things after the counsel of his will.
If God is not sending the disease, the accidents or the tragedies, then why not step in and prevent them?
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Sorry for the length, but your question is harder to answer than just yes He is or no He is not.
We see from Scripture, especially in the Old Testament, that at times God was the cause of what we would view as a bad thing (though, because God is Holy, Just and Righteous, His actions can never be bad regardless of the human perspective on the issue). We have examples such as the great flood, famines, the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, and He sent snakes into the camp of Israel to name a few. God used the various nations to punish Israel when they rebelled and forgot all about Him or attempted to move Him over and make room for other gods (the gods of the peoples around them). Now when we understand that God is Holy, Just and Righteous we can read Ephesians 1:11 and understand that even these things were used to bring about the right outcome ... the one that aligns with God, His will and His purpose.
Now, why doesn't God prevent bad things from happening. Again, we must distinguish between what is bad according to God and what is perceived as bad according to man. If we narrow the comment down to only things God is not causing then we have to ask some other questions. We must start with the condition of mankind. We are a fallen race who are tainted by sin and possess at birth the sin nature which is a fallen nature separated from God. We are created in His image, but we are not born as children of God. We become children of God only at our second birth, our spiritual birth which some call being born again. In the eyes of God we are the offenders, not the offended. Man sinned against God in the Garden of Eden and every person since has failed to meet the qualifications set by God, which is perfection. Everyone of us have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Thus, we need to ask ourselves what obligation does God have toward us? If we are not His children we stand under judgment with only one hope and that is Jesus Christ. He is not obligated to help the unsaved, He is not obligated to bless the unsaved in any way. To think otherwise misses the mark and the understanding of the "lostness of man."
What about when we become His children? Hebrews 12 tells us that He will discipline His children because He loves them and discipline for their good. God's love, nor does His Word, teach us that we will be removed from or protected from persecution. Just the opposite. We are told clearly that we will face many trials and persecutions. In the midst of these trials and persecutions we must remember that our best is yet to come, this life is not the end or the most important. It is to be spent for the Lord as He directs. Even though we will face trials and persecutions there are some things we can ask ourselves when we enter into a storm. I ask theses regularly and ask them in order. 1) Am I in this storm because of my sin, is it a storm I caused? If it is I must come to the Lord in repentance and desire to realign with Him. If I am innocent, or at least cannot see my guilt I move on to question #2. 2) What is the Lord trying to teach me through this storm. Sometimes I can see it clearly. Other times I cannot. Since life isn't all about me I then ask the third question. 3) What is God trying to teach others through my storm? If I am not sure here I am left with the final question. 4) Even though this makes no sense to me will I follow Him anyway through the storm?
We also must remember that we live in a fallen world, with fallen people, while living in the fallen flesh and yes there is an enemy who wars against us. God has given man many liberties (freewill if you will) and in so doing there are certain consequences to our interaction with His creation, including interaction with other humans as well as Satan and the fallen angels. If God overrode every action of every created being in order to protect every living creature from bad actions we would have no freewill, for fallen creatures will act as fallen creatures and that means they will do evil things, including evil things to one another. Now there are times that God does override an action, and that is His prerogative as sovereign God and we can be sure the action aligns with His will and purpose, but the action of God is not caused by an obligation to the exception of any promises that He has made to us that we may claim. Again, recognizing that He has told us that we will face trials and tribulations. One promise we can claim and hold on to is that He will never leave us or forsake us, which means He walks with us through the storm when we are walking with Him.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Permalink Reply by ScribeD on
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The cause of suffering and turmoil in this world falls on Mankind's shoulders. Not God's. We are responsible. God has given mankind a world where we rebelled against Him and kicked him out. He has been redeeming people out of this wretched world ever since, but He has given us our way and allowed us to experience suffering and turmoil as a result of our own rebellious, selfish and sinful ways.
Now, does that mean that God is not involved? Not hardly. There are several places where God gives us an ability to understand how his perfect sovereignty combines with our pathetic freewill:
* "...as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive." (Genesis 50:20) [the story of Joseph, confronting his brothers]
* "... And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren." (Romans 8:28-29)
If God prevented us from experiencing the natural result of our sin, we would not learn to hate sin, but rather to treasure all the more than we do already. This world is a world under a curse, that curse is only able to be reversed IN CHRIST. If you want to understand that curse, you need to start at Genesis 3 and 4.
The Good News is that in Christ, we get to experience the reversal of that curse. Yes, he works things out according to the counsel of His will. True, but the counsel of his will means that we experience due penalty and just reward of our sins in this life - in this broken world.
As the body of Christ, we are supposed to be part of the redeeming and reversing process. But He has also allowed our choices, whether good or bad, to rule the day - to a certain extent. Yet in that, He still redeems the situations of this life and causes Good to come from it.
So His role is that of Redeemer. Not of preventer.
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Eric, yes when I look at the state this world is in, I see a pathetic situation. A world that cannot see it's own folly causes such suffering.
You know, I have often contemplated what a world would be like where everyone was automatically obedient to God, without the need for trial and error. I really can't imagine it. In my mind, it would seem robotic. Yet, God leads us to a time/place where we do trust that there will be no sin and no suffering. In fact, we long for that place of perfection. That "city who's builder and maker is God". Jesus, the perfect man, compels us to seek such a place.
So, perfection must have glory. There must be harmonious delight, not robotic rigor. Yet it is so hard to see from here how that can be for us, who find ourselves so driven to individuality.
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Permalink Reply by Carla on
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Good Word Scribe.
Living with the natural consequence of our sin also reminds us of how much we need Jesus. I can't imagine where I would be personally without that 'knowing'.
Blessings, Carla
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Permalink Reply by Richard L. Broch, Sr. on
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Hi CeeLa JoDy,
Let me share what the late Oswald Chambers wrote on this subject:
"The typical view of the Christian life is that it means being delivered from all adversity. But it actually means being delivered in adversity, which is something very different.
God does not give us overcoming life - He gives us life as we overcome. The strain of life is what builds our strength. If there is no strain, there will be no strength.
Are you asking God to give you life, liberty, and joy? He cannot, unless you are willing to accept the strain. And once you face the strain, you will immediately get the strength."
"My Utmost For His Highest"
August 2nd
Grace and Peace.
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Permalink Reply by Seek on
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If God is not sending the disease, the accidents or the tragedies, then why not step in and prevent them?
A devotion I read just this morning:
"If God only blessed us after we became believers--if He took away all suffering, hardship, and turmoil for Christians--wouldn't it be a way to bribe people into the faith?"
And another from my pastor's sermon yesterday: No pain no gain.
It's an old adage we've heard often and it is true. Pain actually draws us closer to God and helps to increase our faith when we realize rain falls on the just and the unjust. We get a get out of jail free card by accepting Christ...no eternal damnation. But even when a criminal is released from prison, he still has to face the real world...the employers who turn him down because of his criminal record, no one giving him a break, trying to get back into the mainstream of society, overcome his past. He's not in prison anymore, but he still has to face the hardships of this world.
He can allow that to cause him to go back to a life of crime, or he can can realize the freedom he's received and be determined to overcome so that he doesn't place himself back into the bondage he escaped.
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I just responded last night to someone on another website who said she waited on God all her life and He never did anything so He's not real. And she was cursing God. My response to her was:
God didn't fail...can't fail by His very nature. Infallible human beings however get ideas about all they think God should do for them and fail to see what He's already done or even what His Word says. Like in this life you will have troubles, and do not be surprised at the firey trials.
Of all Christians throughout the ages, do you know what happened to the apostles? Besides Judas, Peter and Andrew were crucified. James Alpheus was thrown down from the temple by the scribes and Pharisees; he was then stoned, and his brains dashed out with a fuller’s club. Thomas is known to have been martyred but the method is uncertain. It is believed he was lanced. James the son of Zebedee was put to death by Herod Agrippa. Jude (Thaddeus) was martyred in the region he taught.
That's 6 out of 11 we know we're killed for the Gospel. From scripture it's clear they didn't have a preconceived idea that it was God's duty to save them here on earth.
Most people who don't want anything to do with God believe in evil spirits, but the moment things don't go their way, God's the one takes all the blame.
I can be honest and say this cause I did the same for awhile until I began to understand God's love for mankind and satan's hatred of us. Even Jesus prayed that the disciples be kept safe from the evil one. But people have such a misconception that satan's some dude in a red rubber suit with horns and a pitchfork. They've turned him into a joke and Jesus into a black sheep. In actuality, Jesus was the lamb white as snow and Lucifer was the most beautiful angel in heaven. But he let his heart get ugly. People cover over ugly by making a joke of it and refuse love because it's not an ATM.
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