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Why do some people seem to have a greater hope and joy, even in the face of adversity, than others? Even some sinners remain joyful in adverse circumstances while some Christians do not.
If someone is continually subjected to evil or adversity in great measure, how would they be able to, in their very being and not just mind only, begin to expect or hope for better unless God instills this in them? Just as one who sees so many blessings in life would be hard pressed to always expect the worst.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on
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Good questions. I feel I'm always waiting for the trial that will come anytime I experience even the slightest joy.
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Permalink Reply by Seek on
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Or...you're blindsided by a trial every time, even when not expecting it.
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No, I'm asking how does one change their own personality or disposition? If God is the one who changes a person, how then would we expect someone to "choose" to not get anxious in the face of a bad doctor report, to choose not to be downcast having just lost a loved one, etc.?
I saw a sinner recently battle cancer with a hopeful outlook, even knowing the pain he was in, he didn't act like he was in pain. He had a jovial and bubbly personality throughout it. Some people easily get anxious and will try every prayer, scripture, self help book, relaxation technique, etc. to no avail.
So I'm asking if you do all you can and yet you still get knocked back when you are hit with continual adversity over a long period (some even most of their lives), and you pray continually, and yet it continues to knock you down, how do you change that? Can you?
If a personality is formed over a lifetime and/or even influenced by medical factors, can anyone simply "choose" to wake up one day and decide that no matter what happens today they will not lose their joy or hope for a better tomorrow and have that stick? Say they do this and as they walk out the door, they receive a call that their father just passed away. Then as they grieve, they get a call from the school the next day that their child was just killed in a bus accident. Will their hope and joy drop for a time?
Let's say this becomes pretty much a routine over years...One bad report after another. They battle cancer, then their mother dies, their spouse leaves them....will hope and joy suffer horribly? Is there anything they can honestly do that will help them not feel discouraged and defeated when they finally get a cancer free report just to be told their tests came back and show they now have leukemia?
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Eric, I think God is the only one who can make the real inner change. But I wonder when many plead and cry out for a heart change that it often seems He's slow to respond. We can make outward appearances but even those won't withstand forever without an inward change. So if one is predisposed to feeling like the other shoe is always about to drop, they can quote scripture and pray and put on a pretend smile, but inside, they STILL feel the other shoe dropping. They have an inner angst that won't go away and nothing they do makes it go away. Each time they kick themselves afterwards for having thought the worst and they resolve to not let it happen again, pray, arm themselves with scripture to help in the moment yet it does come again and the angst, fear, worry, whatever, returns time and time again. And they battle it all over again.
I know Paul describes this battle. But is it a battle anyone can ultimately claim victory in? When someone desires such an inward change and they pray constantly for it, can they expect it will happen? Or is this simply to be a lifelong battle for them?
You said you believe this is a matter of outlook or personality or disposition and a choice. A discipline. But discipline doesn't change the personality or disposition. The only choice one can make is to "try", but if we're dispositioned to a certain way of thinking, we're only going to choose outward appearances while not affecting the inward pull of our emotions.
You said: When I get slammed by life sometimes I am devastated and become immobile like a deer in a spotlight.
Did you actually choose this response or did it just come over you naturally until you were able to shake it off? And when you spoke of your friend "choosing" to be happy...can someone with alzheimers choose to be a genius with a photographic memory? What I mean is, what if something physical also plays a role?
When you say that we lose this control then start again, how does one reach the position of never losing that control? And if they cannot reach that position, which is what I believe may be the case no matter how much training, in what way do they settle this inwardly so as to not have a continuous inner conflict stealing away their peace?
The reason I'm not so convinced we can all "choose to be happy (inwardly) is that even if it's something we grow up with, I've seen people with negative dispositions who came from positive happy families and had good a childhood and others with negative parents and lousy a childhood that grew up with a positive disposition.
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Something that just came to me...
If you have no musical talent but choose to be a musician, you can learn music, an instrument, etc. But there will still be no "talent" for it, maybe not even a burning passion. You will learn to play but you still won't be a musician. Not in heart and not to those who hear the music beneath the surface.
So likening that to other things beneath our surface, such as a worry nature, panic attacks, anxiety, depression, negativuty, positivity, happy outlook, cheerful disposition, etc., can we really choose and make those change or does God ultimately need to give us the talent or gift to change these inwardly and for some reason we may not all receive such talents or gifts but be used in other ways with what we do have?
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Thanks for giving me some things to think about. Though I still struggle with those times when I get hit from every side that I have a tendency to feel like I've lost all hope and that life will never get any better and sometimes just to think the worst is coming. The times I've managed to feel the best was coming, I've been hit by worse still and then I tend to plummet. I don't stay down as long as I used to, but that it gets me down at all causes me a loss of peace because I so desperately want to not get down at all and can't seem to manage not to. But I'm better at keeping it in and keeping it short when it happens and I should be happy about that, yet....it's a vicious circle sometimes. Even seeing that where I've been has been a help to some, I still have that longing to want to be at the finish line and I guess that's the thing I need to figure out how to accept and not struggle with.
For my own disposition/personality if you will, medication has helped it tremendously, which is why I really believe it can sometimes be physical causes. Many people suffer certain deficiencies that they don't always know about for years that causes depression, worry, tiredness, a general blah feeling, etc. And trying to make a choice not to feel that way doesn't bring about a real change in it. Short of God performing an absolute miracle in your life, only finding the deficiency and correcting it will change it.
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By the way, what brought this up is that I was having to deal with a very heart breaking issue Monday, and in the midst of it, my doctor called and had seen something on a routine test and wanted more tests done right away. From Monday to Tuesday morning, when I went in for the tests, just before I posted this topic, let's just say I was a basket case. Fearful of the worst and cried my eyes out all that night.
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Trusting God. It sounds like that's the issue, IMO. I have difficulty with it, too. My mind is being renewed, slowly but surely, that God is trustworthy. I posted a discussion back in May 2013 about similar questions and mind renewal with replies in it which might help you. Here's the link http://www.allaboutgod.net/forum/topics/is-it-our-responsibility-to...
We are to trust God, whether the worst happens or not, in good times and bad times, in all things.
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I don't think it's that. I've questioned if that's it but...it's hard to really put to words. Like when I wanted to see if I'd grown enough spiritually to wean off my medication. After a week or two on a lower dose or off completely, I could literally see that black cloud moving in...even without a trigger. It would just start hovering and my thoughts would all get very dark and negative. Within a week of reincreasing the dose, I felt "normal" again. I'd have negative thoughts like anyone but I could put them out of my mind and focus on the positive.
That alone suggests physical causes. Vitamin deficiencies can cause people mood issues.
But trusting God's will be done is completely separate from enjoying pain. And I don't enjoy it.
But the "plummeting" is like worry. I worry even if I'm pleasing God. And that's nothing to do with trust either. I guess it's more not understanding or trusting my own heart that gets me wrapped up in worries. -
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Permalink Reply by Tammy on
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In Scripture, I have read where joy is a feeling & an emotion as well as an action.
Matthew 18:13 And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray.
Luke 13:17 - The multitude rejoiced when Jesus healed the crippled woman. Luke 24:52 - The disciples experienced it when Jesus ascended to heaven. In 1 Corinthians 13:6 we see that love doesn't rejoice in iniquity but rejoices in the truth.
I see these Scriptures as a reaction & emotions to the circumstances around them. Then we have the joy that appears to be commanded. This joy is suppose to be practiced regardless of the feelings.
Matthew 5:11-12 tells us to rejoice when we're persecuted for His Name's sake.
James 1:2 tells us to count it all joy when we fall into various trials.
Phil 4:4 & 1 Thes 5:16 tells us to rejoice always.
Gal 5:22 lists it as a fruit of the Spirit.
To answer your questions above as well as others that you've asked throughout this discussion, I wish I had the answers. I can only give Scriptures that contain the word joy. Some Scriptures show that it's automatic due to the situations surrounding it & others show that it's commanded.
Me, personally, I do have to fight within myself to seek joy at times when the times are tough like they are right now. I have the joy of my salvation but as far as joy in life, I have to strive & struggle to dig it out. I'm pretty good at putting on that mask most of the time as you said some do but not always. I put on the mask because that is what I desire to feel on the inside. I think that if maybe I act like it, I'll feel it. It does work at times but more times not. These are just some things that crossed my mind when I was reading this. I know it sounds choppy. Sorry about that.
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Permalink Reply by thewatchman on
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John 15: 8Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. 9As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 10If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. 11These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and thatyour joy might be full.
I think of Paul in prison, beaten, shackled, probably a very ugly place, but yet this is where he wrote most of his epistle's, sang songs of praise, rejoiced, had peace. Then I go back to much earlier and the story of Joseph...even while doing righteous, he still ended up paying the penalty for it. I think many of us today would be horrified and yes...angered, but then he speaks wisdom to his brothers, what you planned for evil, God planned it for good. Funny, Joseph was sold as a slave by his own blood, but became a deliverer for them in the end. How beautiful.
I couldn't go into the many plights of each persons life and claim to understand, but I do know that belief, trust, and a relationship with God proves this over and over. There are many stories throughout the Bible of people overcoming those trials and tribulations, while rejoicing in them and having peace.
I know that whatever happens to me has been permitted or allowed by God for His good pleasure, honor, and glory, that in and of itself is so important to me, because He holds me, He covers me, and it's all for good...no matter what. That fills me with joy and peace. God has had some serious dealings with me and they do grow you, they make you stronger in the Lord, bring you to a place where you will rejoice...because you know Who the center of your life is. It is a matter of trust and belief and abiding.
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