All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
Not So Many
It's my thoughts that not as many Christians are truly saved as every one thinks there is. In fact even some that say there a Christian might not be. The facts is that every person on earth sins daily, and that would mean you would need to ask daily for Jesus to forgive your sins. Do you die to sin daily? This is one thing that true Christian persons do.
And your life is always changing if your a true Christian person. And how is God able to change your life daily? If you don't every day of your Christian life renew your mind in his word? So yet one more thing we are told as Christian people to do.
Now there is people out there that say once saved always saved. But backside daily. What may I ask does the son of God say about them? He says anyone that put his hand to the pow and turns back is not fit to enter the kingdom of God. So how many backsliders is there that think there going to heaven.
The Bible tells us to be perfect as God in heaven is perfect. Can people be perfect if Jesus is not asked into your heart daily? Remember it's only by grace that we are saved.
Don't think that God has not made a way for you, but think if your on the way he truly made for you.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Seek on
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I believe Romans 1:18-20 addresses this without question: For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
This says we all know God because He is revealed since the creation of the world in the things that have been made. People choose to either believe in a creator or in evolution or choose to not even think about it one way or the other. But that is rejecting God if they can see in creation that we were created and therefore there IS a God and yet don't acknowledge Him. This says they "suppress the truth".
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on
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While children and the mentally handicapped may not be capable of believing, we can't under estimate the saving power of God to break through any kind of obstacle in order to reach those who will be saved.
As for adults who are capable of understanding, none can come to Christ unless the Father draws them and then Jesus reveals the Father to them. Belief and repentance takes place and Holy Spirit indwells them and they are given a new heart and a new spirit. It never begins with the person. Salvation is initiated by God.
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I meant to say that while we may THINK children and the mentally handicapped may not be capable of believing, we can't under estimate the saving power of God to break through any kind of obstacle in order to reach those who will be saved.
Share the message of faith with EVERYONE.
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Permalink Reply by Carla on
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Eric,
What of the innocent ones? Who is innocent before God? For ALL fall short of God's Glorious Standard.
The good person who is practicing that which God has put in the heart of all men is living the commandments if she has not denied the truth in UN- righteousness and has nothing else to go on.
No one is good but God.
What of those who came before Christ and died before he lived ?
The death and resurrection of Christ has always been the way to Salvation.. OT and NT.. by Grace thru faith.
Those who came before Christ were preached to in Hades when the Lord descended. Perhaps the eternal fate had already been determined... Believing God and walking in obedience. We can't say with certainty who is in heaven and who is not--We can't speak to other's salvation.
Eph 4
7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift. 8 Therefore [a]it says,
“When He ascended on high,
He led captive a host of captives,
And He gave gifts to men.”9 (Now this expression, “He ascended,” what [b]does it mean except that He also [c]had descended into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens, so that He might fill all things.)
1 Peter 3
18 For Christ also msuffered2 nonce for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, othat he might bring us to God, being put to death pin the flesh but made alive qin the spirit, 19 in which3 he went and qproclaimed4 to the spirits in prison, 20 because5 they formerly did not obey, rwhen God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, swhile the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, teight persons, were brought safely through water.
Here's what scripture tells us:
"18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth [l]in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident [m]within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not [n]honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened."
No one is good. No one can earn salvation. No one is righteous.
In regards to people who have never heard the gospel, I believe that God will find a way to reach them, HE knows all the hearts of men. If a person in the deepest parts of the jungle looks to God's Creation and is struck with an AWE at what God has made, and cries out to God so that HE will be known by them... God will reach them. He may reach them thru a missionary, thru a dream, the bible... I do not know the countless ways that God could accomplish this. I have heard many magnificent testimonies of how Jesus has visited Muslim people in dreams and visions.
If we say that people are saved any other way than thru Christ we are on dangerous territory, walking on thin ground because scripture never says such a thing.. We are adding to or taking away from the scriptures., and we are also down playing the magnitude of sin in humanity and how it has so deeply depraved humanity.
With this information of only one way to Salvation.. we are prone to fall into a trap of emotionalism.. and ask things such as 'But what about newborn babies?'. God is just! God is Love! God is Good! That's where I rest my verdict and I leave the rest to God. I am tempted to tread into the waters of speculation, but I will not! What will we do with sin?
Preach the gospel, leave the rest to God. Trust in God. Be obedient! Do we trust that HE will save people by the preaching of the word? It's what HE says He will do. What else are we left with?
Blessings, Carla
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Eric,
I'm sure there is so much more to this, and I believe that Seek said somewhere here in this dialogue, we won't know the fullness of the answer until we are face to face with the Lord.
Until then, we love Him, we love others, we trust Him, we study and we walk in obedience.
I've often wondered how the questions that we still have will be answered. Will we sit at His feet and be taught by Him... or will we understand everything completely and immediately once we are face to face. I believe once we are face to face we will be perfect... Interesting and exciting to think about, I guess we'll have to wait to find out.
YES--- Busy day. My son also came home with pages and pages of math homework.. house is a mess! I guess I have to let go of my idea of 'perfect' for the time being. :-)
Blessings, Carla
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Carla,
For clarity in this discussion as there seems to be some confusion in the dialogue. Do you believe that there is a second chance for people to receive salvation after they die physically apart from Christ?
Lord Bless,
LT
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I've often wondered how the questions that we still have will be answered. Will we sit at His feet and be taught by Him... or will we understand everything completely and immediately once we are face to face.
but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. 1 Corinthians 13:10 & 12
I believe this means we will know immediately when we see Him face to face.
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Eric,
There is no second chance after death. The Bible does not teach that.
Here is an article from Got Questions:
Question: "Will there be a second chance for salvation after death?"
Answer: While the idea of a second chance for salvation is appealing, the Bible is clear that death is the end of all chances. Hebrews 9:27 tells us that we die, and then face judgment. So, as long as a person is alive, he has a second, third, fourth, fifth, etc. chance to accept Christ and be saved (John 3:16; Romans 10:9-10; Acts 16:31). Once a person dies, there are no more chances. The idea of purgatory, a place where people go after death to pay for their sins, has no biblical basis, but is rather a tradition of the Roman Catholic Church.
To understand what happens to nonbelievers after they die, we go to Revelation 20:11-15 which describes the Great White Throne judgment. Here takes place the opening of the books and “the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.” The books contain all the thoughts and deeds of those being judged, and we know from Romans 3:20 that “by the works of the Law is no flesh justified.” Therefore, all who are judged by their works and thoughts are condemned to hell. Believers in Christ, on the other hand, are not judged by the books of works, but their names are found written in another book—the “Lamb’s Book of Life” (Revelation 21:27). These are the ones who have believed on the Lord Jesus, and they alone will be allowed to enter heaven.
The key to understanding this is the Lamb’s Book of Life. Anyone whose name is written in this book was “saved before the foundation of the world” (Ephesians 1:4) by God’s sovereign saving grace to be part of His Son’s bride, the church of Jesus Christ. These people need no “second chance” at salvation because their salvation has been secured by Christ. He chose us, He saved us, and He will keep us saved. Nothing can separate us from Christ (Romans 8:39). Those for whom He died will be saved because Jesus will see to it. He declared “all that the Father has given me will come to me” (John 6:37), and “I give to them eternal life, and they shall never ever perish, and not anyone shall pluck them out of My hand” (John 10:28). For believers, there is no need for a second chance because the first chance is sufficient.
What about those who do not believe? Wouldn’t they repent and believe if they were given a second chance? The answer is no, they would not because their hearts are not changed simply because they die. Their hearts and minds “are at enmity” against God and won’t accept Him even when they see Him face to face. This is evidenced clearly in the story of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16:19-31. If ever someone should have repented when given a second chance to see clearly the truth, it was the rich man. But although he was in torment in hell, he only asked that Abraham send Lazarus back to earth to warn his brothers so they didn’t have to suffer the same fate. There was no repentance in his heart, only regret for where he found himself. Abraham’s answer says it all: “And he said to him, If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded, even though one rose from the dead” (Luke 16:31). Here we see that the witness of the Scriptures is sufficient for salvation for those who believe it, and no other revelation will bring about salvation to those who do not. No second, third or fourth chances would be enough to turn the heart of stone into a heart of flesh.
Philippians 2:10-11 declares “that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.” One day, everyone will bow before Jesus and recognize that He is the Lord and Savior. At that point, though, it is too late for salvation. After death, all that remains for the unbeliever is judgment (Revelation 20:14-15). That is why we must trust in Him in this life.
Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/second-chance-salvation.html#ixzz2meRWyESPLord Bless,
LT
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Eric,
You said you "thrash about some, learning and not knowing ..."
My heart goes out to you for what you've been through and have suffered during childhood and life experiences.
I wanted to ask you if you do most of your Bible studying alone, and the reason I ask is because it looks like the Bereans mentioned in Scripture were a group, and I think Bible study is important alone but also is important to do with others, so that we can really test what we're learning to make sure it is true.
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Permalink Reply by Tammy on
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I'm sorry to hear that you've had so many problems Eric. Here where I live, all the churches have a sign language section. The children's department have them as well. Just stick to that word & you can never go wrong as long as you're leaning on the wisdom of the Holy Spirit to guide you. Bless you brother
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Eric,
I would not fully agree with what you have said. The problem is the following. Anyone can acknowledge that there is a God, but what god are they talking about. The Bible tells us two things pretty clear. 1) Salvation is only through Jesus Christ, and that requires a basic understanding of Who He is and what He has done, along with our great need for a Savior. 2) The Bible is clear that the message is the gospel and it has been given to the church to spread the gospel to the lost (Acts 1:8 and Romans 10:14-17). Without the hearing of the gospel which includes the points from #1 a person remains in their default position. God's grace (saving grace) is extended to the lost when it is delivered through the gospel message and then to all who believe.
I know that it is hard for many to understand and accept that there are people born who will never hear the gospel and spend eternity in the Lake of Fire, but that is what the Bible teaches. It is our emotions that say this cannot be, but when we start with the premise that man is fallen, wicked and separated from God deserving nothing we can then begin to accept that the gospel, as recorded in Scripture, is His message of grace and hope for a lost and dying world. The church has a great responsibility and has failed to fully engage in completing the task.
I hope this helps, though I know emotionally it is not popular.
Lord Bless,
LT
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