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If you are a believer or not.....
You need to pick up the book 23 Minutes in Hell, its very good. The book tells you what it's like in hell and i would recommend non-believers to read it!
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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Wow -
Why you have to make me cry? :) Tears of joy and thanks giving hehe
Thank you beloved, and right back at cha. You are a truly beautiful sister., We are so blessed to Have such an AWESOME GOD THAT SHINES THROUGH US.
Matthew 5:14
“You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden.
ALL PRAISE AND GLORY TO OUR KING. Thank you for your kind words, I am very honored and bless by your comments sister.
Blessings family :)
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Permalink Reply by Carla on
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Dear Tom,
The realities of hell are difficult to accept. The fact is, hell is a reality. I hope and pray that people would just submit themselves to the Lord...but people are stubborn....they want to do things their way.
This article you posted makes a horrible assumption...It assumes that we as believers WANT hell to be true! I have a hard time with it...but scripture points to the truths that it does exist. If we deny the realities of it, then we are changing scripture to suit our own agendas.
One of the clearest descriptions of sheol is found in the book of Luke:
Luk 16:19 ¶ There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
Luk 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
Luk 16:21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Luk 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
Luk 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that [would come] from thence.
Luk 16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
Luk 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
Luk 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
Luk 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
The Terms Sheol and Hades are described as follows: (taken from Dr. Arnold D Fruchtenbom's book 'Footsteps of the Messiah')
FIRST: Sheol and Hades are one in the same. Sheol is the Hebrew term and Hades is the Greek term for one and the same thing. The location of Sheol or Hades is in the centre of the earth as can be seen in three ways.
First: in the OT it was called the "nether parts of the world" (Ezek 26:20, 31:14, 16,18; 32:18,24)
Second: in Ephesians 4:9,10, Hades was called the lower parts of the earth. So the Hades is the lower parts of the earth corresponds to the Sheol in the nether parts of the earth.
Third: in Matthew 12:40, Hades, is said to be in the heart or in the centre of the earth. As far as location is concerned, Sheol ot Hades is located in the centre of the earth. That is one of the reasons why Sheol or Hades is temporary, because when this earth is done away with at the end of the Messianic Kingdom, Sheol or Hades will no longer exist.
SECOND: Sheol or Hades has two primary compartments. One primary compratment was for the righteous ones, and this righteous side was known as Abraham's Bosom. Between Adam and the Ascension of Jesus, Paradise was located in Abraham's Bosom. The second primary compartment has three parts. As far as humans are concerned, they are located in Hades Proper, better known among believers today as Hell. This part is also known by two other names: Abbadon and the Pit. The two other parts in the unrighteous side are for fallen angels. One of these is the Abyss, which is a temporary place of confinement for fallen angels. The other is Tarturas, which is the place of confinement for those angels who sinned in Genesis 6. So Sheol and Hades had two primary compartments. The righteous side was known as Abraham's Bosom. The unrighteous side had three subdividions of it's own: for humans it is Hades or Hell, also known as Abbadon or the Pit; and for the fallen angels, the Abyss and Tartarus.
The second conclusion to be drawn is that the terms Gehenna and the Lake of Fire refer to one and the same place. It is the final abode of the unrighteous ones, both angels and men. It should be kept in mind that Sheol or Hades is a temporary place, regardless of ones condition. The righteous side of Sheol or Hades has already been eliminated with the Ascension of the Messiah. The unrighteous side is also temporary, because the eternal abode of the unrighteous ones will not be Hell nor the Abyss nor Tartarus, but will be Gehenna, the Lake of Fire.
Four things can be pointed out concerning the place of the dead until the Ascension of Jesus from Luke 16:19-31. (which by the way is not a parable, our Lord did not leave the option that it is a parable).
First: every person who died, whether they were righteous or unrighteous, went down to Sheol or Hades, which, was noted, is in the centre of the earth.
Second: the righteous went into Abraham's Bosom, where Paradise was located at that time. While the animal blood sacrifices were sufficient to keep the OT saint out of Hell, they were not sufficient to get them into Heaven. The OT saint was saved trhe same way believers are saved today: by grace through faith. In both cases, however, there was the element of blood. Until the death of Jesus, the blood sacrifice that was necessary was that of the animal blood and the sacrificial system of the Mosaic Law. Because this was animal blood, the blood sacrifices only covered the sins of the saints, but did not remove them. As Hebrews 10:1-4 emphasizes, it is impossible that the blood of bulls and goats [the blood of animals] should take away sin. The reason the blood sacrifices, while sufficient to keep the OT Saints out of Hell, were not sufficient to get them into Heaven is because the blood sacrifices only covered sin, but they did not remove it. Nevertheless, Abraham's Bosom, where Paradise was located, was a place of bliss for the immaterial part of the OT saint or the soul of the OT saint.
Third: the unrighteous went into Hades Proper, better known as Hell or Abbadon or the Pit. Unlike Abraham's Bosom, Hades Proper or Hell, was a place of torment.
Fourth: there was an impassable gulf between the two sides of Sheol or Hades. It was possible to see across this gulf, it was possible to converse across this gulf, but it was impossible to cross over from one side to the other. Obviously, if it were possible, all of the crossing would be in one direction only, as no one in Abraham's Bosom would want to go to Hell, but those in Hell would definately desire to enter into Abraham's Bosom. This was the situation from the time of Adam until the Ascension of Jesus.
The work of the Messiah changed the whole situation for the believers. In particular, three acts of the Messiah affected that change.
First: the death of the Messiah. When Jesus died, He died for all sins. He also died for all the world's sins of all time--those committed before His death adn those committed after His death. It was also the death of Jesus that removed the sins of the OT saints.
Second: the descent of the Messiah. When Jesus died, Hsi Soul, His immaterial part, descended int ot he righteous portion of Sheol or Hades. In Matt 12:40, Jesus predicted that He must go down in to the heart of the earth where Sheol or Hades is located. Eph 4:9 states that Jesus descended into the lower parts of the earth. 1 Peter 3:18-19 points out that in His spirit, Jesus preached unto the spirits in prison. These spirits were the unrighteous ones in Hell. Some have misunderstood this verse and taught that since He preached, He preached the gospel to them and gave them a second chance to be saved. However, the Greek word that is used here is not the Greek word that means "to preach the gospel," but it is a Greek word that simply means "to make a proclamation". What happened when Jesus descended is that His spirit made a proclamation that His death guarantees the hudgement of the unsaved. Jesus made the proclamation to those in Hell. Because of this, some assumed that Jesus descended into Hell and this He did not. He told the dying thief on the cross that on that very day, the both of them would be in Paradise, not in Hell. When Jesus died, His Spirit descended to the righteous side of Sheol or Hades, Abraham's Bosom. As has been noted, if one were in Abraham's Bosom, he could see those in Hell and converse with those in Hell. So the spirit of Jesus descendedinto Abrahams' Bosom and HE made the Proclamation that the death of the Messiah guaranteed their future judgement. Those who were to benefit from the death of Jesus were the souls of Abrahm's Bosom, not the souls of Hell.
Third: the Ascension of the Messiah. When the Messiah ascended into Heaven, HE took the souls of the OT saints with Him; he led captivity captive(Eph 4:8-10). Those who had been captive with the confines of Abraham's Bosom were now taken out of Abrahm's Bosom. All the righteous souls who had died before the death of Jesus ascended with Jesus into Heaven. As a result Abraham's Bosom, the righteous side of Sheol or Hades, has been eliminated and Paradise is not longer in Abraham's Bosom. Paradise is now in the Third Heaven. (2 Corinthians 12:1-4).
As a result of these 3 acts of the Messiah, the souls of saints today go immediately into Heaven. No longer is there a temporary "holding pattern." The moment a believer dies, he goes immediately in the presence of God. Second Corinthians 5:6-8 teaches that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord, and the Lord is in the Third Heaven.
Phillipians 1:21-23 states that to depart in death is to be with the Messiah, and the Messiah is in the Third Heaven, seated at the right hand of God the Father.
As far as unbelievers are concerned, nothing has changed for them. What happens to unbelievers today is a continuation of what was true before the Ascension of Jesus. The souls of unbelievers still go down to Hades Proper or Hell.
The unbelievers are going to remain in Sheol or Hades until the end of the Messianic Kingdom. It is only at the end of the one thousand years that the souls of the unbelievers will be taken out of Hades or Hell (Rev. 20:11-15). This removal of the souls out of Hell is known as the Second Ressurection because all the bodies of the unbelievers will be resurrected, and all the osuls of unbelievers will be removed from Hell so, at this point, Hell is going to be eliminated.
After the second resurrection, in which the souls of Hell are removed and the bodies of the unbelievers are resurrected and reunited with those souls, all of these unbelievers will then stand before the Great White Throne Judgement. The purpose of the Great White Throne Judgement is not to determine whether they were saved or unsaved; that is determined forever upon death. The purpose of the Great White Throne Judgement us to determine degree of punishment, because some will suffer more severely than others.
After the Great White Throne Judgement will come the final abode of all unbelievers, which will be Gehenna or the Lake of Fire.
What is the state of the Unbeliever inthe Lake of Fire? It is a place where there is smoke of........torment (Rev. 14:10-11), a fire that is not quenchable(Mk 9:48). It is a state of weeping and gnashing of teeth (Mat. 8:12; 13:42, 50; 22:13; 24:51; 25:30; Luke 13:28); it is a place of unholy associations (Rev.21:8; 22:15); it is a state of suffering the wrath of God eternally (Jn. 3:36)
Eight deductions can be drawn concerning the place of the dead in the future for the unbeliever: first, it is a total deprivation of divine favor; second, it is an endless disturbance of life, third, it is a time of pain in body and in soul; fourth, there are pangs of conscience; fifth, it is anguish; sixth, it is a place of despair; seventh, it is torment; and eighth, it is an eternal state of consciousness.
The duration of this kind of torment is eternal (Rev. 14;11). It carries the same duration as the eternal bliss for the saints (Mat 25:46). It is stated that "their worm never dies" (Mk. 9:48)
~Carla
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Tamar:
Are you referig to Dante Alighieri's fourteenth-century epic poem Divine Comedy?
The poem begins on the night before Good Friday in the year 1300, "halfway along our life's path" (Nel mezzo del cammin di nostra vita). Dante is thirty-five years old, half of the biblical life expectancy of 70 (Psalms 90:10), lost in a dark wood (understood as sin[4][5][6]), assailed by beasts (a lion, a leopard, and a she-wolf) he cannot evade, and unable to find the "straight way" (diritta via) - also translatable as "right way" - to salvation (symbolized by the sun behind the mountain). Conscious that he is ruining himself and that he is falling into a "deep place" (basso loco) where the sun is silent ('l sol tace), Dante is at last rescued by Virgil, and the two of them begin their journey to the underworld. Each sin's punishment in Inferno is a contrapasso, a symbolic instance of poetic justice; for example, fortune-tellers have to walk with their heads on backwards, unable to see what is ahead, because that was what they had tried to do in life:
"they had their faces twisted toward their haunches
and found it necessary to walk backward,
because they could not see ahead of them.
…and since he wanted so to see ahead,
he looks behind and walks a backward path.[7]
Allegorically, the Inferno represents the Christian soul seeing sin for what it really is, and the three beasts represent three types of sin: the self-indulgent, the violent, and the malicious.[8] These three types of sin also provide the three main divisions of Dante's Hell: Upper Hell (the first 5 Circles) for the self-indulgent sins; Circles 6 and 7 for the violent sins; and Circles 8 and 9 for the malicious sins.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Divine_Comedy
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Hahaha you killing me Tom hahaha
Good one bro and we know this is fiction bro, Tamar was only bringing up the fact that it has distorted the perception of hell.
oh men bro, you gave me a good laugh.
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Dear Tom,
Thank you for taking the time to respond.
I agree with you to a point...
You said this: "As far as I'm concerned, one has to open their mind and forget what they have learned or read in the past. Learn the bible from a fresh and a personal perspective."
This is true if what the person has learned is not doctrinally sound. You see.. I believe that all scripture is inspired by God...meaning..."God breathed it".
This timely devotional came in my email today:
Given by Inspiration
February 1, 2010
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." (2 Timothy 3:16-17)
This passage is the most definitive of all passages on the inspiration of the Bible. It explicitly repudiates all the false concepts which men have developed to try to escape this vital doctrine.
For example, it repudiates the humanistic theory of inspiration, which says that the writers were "inspired" with the same quality of exalted feelings that inspired other great writers. But this verse attributes it not to human inspiration, but to the "inspiration of God."
Then, there is the partial theory of inspiration, which says that part of the Bible is inspired (the "religious" parts), but that part of it is not (the scientific and historical parts). But our verse says that all Scripture is inspired! The dynamic theory says the thoughts are inspired, but not the words. However, it is the Scriptures that are inspired, not the thoughts of the men who wrote them. The "Scriptures" mean the "writings"--the actual words written.
The encounter theory says the Scriptures are not inspired in themselves, but only become inspired when a reader "encounters" God through reading them. This, also, is false. The Scriptures are inspired regardless of how they affect the reader. Actually, the phrase "given by inspiration of God" is one word in the Greek, meaning "God-breathed."
Thus, plenary verbal inspiration and complete divine origin and authority of all the Holy Scriptures is the true biblical doctrine. When one does accept the God-breathed authority of Scripture, however, he has an infinite resource, serving as an inerrant framework for all true wisdom and knowledge, and leading him into full maturity in the Christian life. HMM
*********************end of devotion*********************
Tom, you also said this:
We each have a different perspective on life. This is very similar to when we read the Word of God. We each perceive different meanings from the Holy Scripture.
I agree with you.. that is true.. but it is true to our detriment mostly..More often then not we want to be right...we want others to agree with us..when they don't we begin to try many tactics to try to 'sway' them to our side.. We quite often want to be Glorified, rather than Glorify God.....you see, that is the condition of the human heart. I wish it were not so...
The Holy Spirit does lead us into all truth... However, the truth is already in our hands...the Holy Spirit brings it to life for each one of us personally....according to what has already been written. Jhn 14:26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.
God's book has been written..there is nothing more that needs to be added to it, and nothing must be taken away....
Rev 22:18 I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book;
Rev 22:19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.
Rev 22:20 He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming quickly." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.
Blessings, Carla
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Tom,
Actually all the previous forums are open for everyone to view in the archives. Therefore, everyone is privy to them. The reason for pointing you there is that you are not presenting anything new that has not been addressed before. You are at least the 5th person to have your POV on the subject.
Did you read through the forum?
Lord Bless,
LT
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Tamar,
Yes, I have researched the subject and the answer is what the Bible teaches.
Lord Bless,
LT
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I spend a couple of hours surfing the page you get your information from Tamar and I found that your teachers teach heresy that goes against the primary doctrines of Christianity.
Your Congregation’s name is: Congregation Of Yahweh
Under Scripture Studies., I drill into the study named: "Truth" and found what your teachers think about the body of Christ.
http://sites.google.com/site/congregationofyahweh/article2233
Your teachers state the following:
Roman Catholics teach, and so do Protestants that the Scriptures do not express the Almighty's complete will to man; but the Apostle Paul said; "All Scripture is given by the inspiration of Yahweh, and is profitable ... that the man of Yahweh may be perfect, thoroughly furnished in all good works." II Tim. 3:16, 17; Gal. 1:8,9. Roman Catholics teach, and so do Protestants that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are but one but the Saviour said: "My Father is greater than I... I came forth from the Father, and go to the Father." "I will pray the Father and He shall give you another comforter ... even the Spirit of Truth."- John 14:28; 16:28; 14:16,17 See also Matt. 16, 17, Acts 7:56.
Roman Catholics teach, and so do Protestants, that it is not necessary to seek for the fullness of the Holy Spirit; but your Bible says: "Be ye filled with the Spirit." - Eph. 5:18; Rom. 8:1-14.
Roman Catholics teach, and so do Protestants any kind of man-made calling and office is good enough for the congregation; but our Bible says Yahweh: "Hath set some in the congregation, first apostles, secondly prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healing, helps, I Cor. 12:28; Eph. 4:11.
Whaaaatttttttt????????
Your teachers do not cite one single shred of evidence to proof their statement.
I am so sorry Tamar, I am sorry if someone in the Christian family hurt you in any way for you to go seek truth elsewhere, I am so so sorry. But what you have believed is not the truth, is a bunch of manmade doctrines that tickle the ear, but enslave you. Cry out to YahShua Messiah/Jesus and ask Him to help you.
Your teachers teach that Jesus is not God, but a creation of God. That denies the deity/Godhead, hence we differ in Primary issues and we will not see eye to eye.
You are welcome to check out the latest discussion we had about the deity of the father. You can find it here: http://www.allaboutgod.net/forum/topics/trinity-1
We have also discussed the Rapture many times:
http://www.allaboutgod.net/forum/topics/the-rapture-2
Last week we were discussing the importance of the Holy Spirit, so as usual your teachers are pulling information out of the hat and you are believing them without any credible info or non-credible for that matter.
So feel free to check those out.
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Tom... You said this:
"This is exactly my point...seeking the Lord is personal. We could never stop seeking because our salvation depends on the answers we find."
Your salvation is not determinded by the answers you find.. Your salvation is determined by your faith.
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, {it is} the gift of God;
Blessings, Carla
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Dear Tamar,
You said this:
"So...be careful that you guys don't tear each other down..."
No one is tearing the other down....
Pro 27:17 Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another.
Blessings, Carla
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Bro Tom,
All sister Sandra was saying is that the book by David W. is a good read for believers or non-believers.
That was all Tom.
Blessings beloved
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