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The "Rapture"
Does anyone think there will be a "secret rapture" prior to the Second Coming???????
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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Marilyn,
I believe in the Rapture of the church, if by secret you mean that only believers will be caught up to heaven and unbelievers will be left to wonder what happened, I do.
What about you, do you believe in it or not?
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Permalink Reply by Marilyn M. on
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David:
Here is a reply that I have posted to several others regarding this matter. I didn't want to retype it over and over, but here's my thought. I'm leaning toward NO pre-tribulation rapture, but only a calling up of the saints to meet Christ in the air at the Second Coming. I don't feel we as fallen sinful man can ever grasp ABSOLUTE TRUTH on our own, but that ABSOLUTE TRUTH will grasp us.
However, regarding the rapture and the second coming, there are two schools of thought. Some believe that the "rapture" of the Saints/Church here on earth will occur prior to the pre-tribulation and prior to the Second Coming of Christ. People left behind will be wondering where all their family and friends have gone. Can you imagine flying in an airplane and the pilot and co-pilot (who are born-again Christians) are suddenly "raptured" and no one is left to fly the plane?? Kaboom !!!!!
Others believe there will be NO secret rapture but that the Saints will be called up to meet Christ in the air at the Second Coming....first the dead in Christ will rise and the Saints in Christ will be called up to meet Him in the air.
What say you???
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Marilyn,
I believe that we can grasp absolute truth through the Holy Spirit (John 16) who leads us to all truth and of course absolute truth also grasps us. Like water and wet, cannot have one without the other.
I answered your question above sister. I believe in the Rapture of the church. I go with the pre-wrath camp. So I believe that we will be "Caught up" right before the wrath of God falls on the earth (the second part of the tribulation).
This is how I see it friend:
The chronological order of the major eschatological (future) events?
1. The right now.
Saints die every day and are abiding in paradise (not concrete if it’s here where we go before the Judgment seat of Christ (2cor. 5), where we are not judge to find out if we are saved or not, if we are there, it is obvious we are saved, we are rewarded for the work done here on earth, until -
2. Tribulation period - the rise of the Antichrist. 7 years of Tribulation. 3 1/2 years of peace and then tribulation as the earth has never seen.
2A. Pre -Wrath. The Rapture happens where the dead in Christ rise first before the great tribulation starts or we can say, before the worst part of the Trib starts. The old body is resurrected and reunited with the Spirit and in a flash we are given a glorified body which we will abide in for as long as God wants it that way (4ever).
3. Armageddon - Christ comes back with the church as King to set up His kingdom.
4. The millennium reign.
5. Satan is let lose one last time after the millennium and hell and all those that follow him will be thrown into the lake of fire, after the great white throne judgment.
And then the new Heaven and the new earth is establish.
Some believe that we will be in heaven for eternity but that is not biblical - a new heaven and a new earth will be our adobe - the saints should inherit the earth.
This is what I see coming according to my bible. I see that you do not believe in the Rapture of the church before the Second comming and that is fine with me. Escathology is not a favorite of mine, so i do not discuss it much.
DV
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Hi David,
First, I agree with you about ABSOLUTE TRUTH. I believe that due to our fallen nature, ABSOLUTE TRUTH must FIRST grasp us through the Holy Spirit's indwelling.
Secondly, I don't understand your No. 1....could you be referring to a "middle Heaven" ??
Next, I agree with you about the new earth.....this earth will not pass away but will be renewed by Christ at the Second Coming when Christ makes all things new......won't that be GREAT !!!!!!! After all, Christ said to the Apostles that He is "going away to prepare a place for us".....that's the New Jerusalem. See Rev. chapters 21 and 22 for a description of it. It's absolutely fantastic.
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David: Biblical evidence reveals that Christians have always gone through "tribulation" and will endure tribulations until the end. BUT we should not have to fear what man, governments, Satan or devils can do. Jesus Christ has promised, "Lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the world." Matthew 28:20 (Christ's "hedge of protection"). Many Christian prophecy teachers are now saying that "the Church" will NOT go through Earth's final "tribulation," but will instead be "raptured" or taken to heaven before the final crisis hits. The way the world is today, maybe we are already suffering through the tribulation. What makes US so special that we shouldn't have to suffer through end-time tribulation??? All the biblical Saints suffered and died for their faith in Christ. The idea of the Church not going through the tribulation sounds like a good idea. I know I don't want to suffer through that. But the fact is that Christians have suffered "tribulation" throughout history and there will be no complete relief until the Second Coming of Jesus Christ at the very end of the world.
If you look up the word "tribulation" in the New Testament, almost every reference applies to what true Christians go through, rather than what they escape from. An example is: John 16:33 - Jesus Christ said to His followers, "In the world YOU shall have tribulation, but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world."
Acts 14:22 - Paul told Christians, "WE through much tribulation must enter the kingdom of God." As once believing in the pre-tribulation rapture, I now believe in no "rapture" at all until the Second Coming of Christ. I believe now that we (if we are still alive during the tribulation) will be provided a "hedge of protection" by Christ to help spare us from those events while we are here on earth. What say you??????
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This is what to me makes no sense for the Rapture to happen after the tribulation:
In Rev 19:19-21, When Jesus returns at the end of the tribulation, He will be coming for battle. For those who believe in a post-trib rapture, it would be strange to meet our Lord and Savior just as He's rushing into battle. The thought that war and rapture could occur together makes no sense to me, it could happened, but just does not seem right. I mean we would be transformed in an instant, meet the Lord and then watch Him destroy the army's of the world? There are multiple verses that speak of the reward of the Church being not having to go through the great tribulation.
I see you like this topic - I really do not care for it much. If we do go through the Great tribulation then we go through it, if we don't we don't. God will be with us no matter what, but scripturally I see verses that lead me to believe that the bride will not go through it.
I am sure you are familiar with those. Lord bless you sister.
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2 Peter 1
2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
I believe that we can grasp absolute truth through the Holy Spirit (John 16) who leads us to all truth and of course absolute truth also grasps us.
You did not comment back about the fact that we can know Absolute Truth. What say you?
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Yes I did. It's somewhere in all these replies....I thought I sent it to you, but I don't know. REgarding Absolute Truth: We are the Creator's "creatures"......we do not and cannot come to know ABSOLUTE TRUTH on our own accord. Only by the power of the Holy Spirit's infusion can we come to know Absolute Truth ........ I feel God's Word is Truth but before we were "born again of the Holy Spirit" or "prompted" by the Holy Spirit, we couldn't understand it or didn't want to understand it, or shyed away from it altogether....
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Marilyn,
Of course the natural man does not understand the things of God for they must be spiritually discern no problem there, but as new creatures and with our minds renewed by the word, we can know absolute truth. No one is debating that here. So we agree on this.
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Marilyn,
God can do what He wants according to His good pleasure. I completely understand what you are saying above about how the Saints have always gone through tribulation. Ahhhh yeah and so do we go through our own tribulations and persecutions as we are truly the light of the world and the salt of the earth.
NO one is saying we are exempt from tribulation. My life is no cake walk, is yours free of tribulations or persecutions? I doubt it.
However we are talking about the Great tribulation and as no one has EVER experience before. The fall of Jerusalem in AD 70 or any other event of the past cannot compare to what is to come according to scripture. So your logic does not hold up.
Be bless and a blessing.
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Hey Marilyn,
The Bible is clear that the church will be called, or better stated "caught up." The hard part is trying to pinpoint the timing of it. There are various opinions. Some of these are pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib, pre-wrath and at the Second Coming. My personal view has changed over the years from mid-trib to pre-trib to pre-wrath, and as of late pre-wrath and sliding closer to the end of the tribulation, but not post ... at least not yet. One might ask why so many changes. The only answer I have is the more you study the more things are revealed. This newer illumination has caused me to shift.
1 Thess. 4:13-18 are the primary verses relating to the topic.
Hope that makes sense.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Yes that makes sense. However, I am not quite sure if I believe in a "secret rapture" where the Saints (those who have truly accepted Christ as their Lord and Savior) are suddenly swept away in the "twinkling of an eye" prior to the tribulation and everyone is left to wonder where they have all gone, such as is the premise of the "Left Behind" book series by Tim LaHaye. I think the verses such as 1 Thess. 4:13-18 are referring to the Second Coming of Christ and not a pre-trib rapture. What say you????
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