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I have never felt easy with the statement, “losing your salvation,” or “once saved always saved.” Both are statements are made by human pride. Many who say, “once saved always saved.” seem to act anyway they want. The words Genuine Faith are connected with genuine repentance. Genuine Faith is Led by The Spirit. I will share more with responses.  So there is a question, how do any of you see these things?  Yet, if you truly are saved, Fruit is produced. 

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LT

Your comment
"Another way to put it is that works of faith are evidence of salvation, not a causation or additive or the mechanism by which we remain saved."

Good word and absolutely spot on in my opinion.

God bless

All of your words and input have been very effective upon my heart.  I have become very discouraged and extremely saddened.  I won't be replying any further in this post and the network here.  

My words have been sincere and my beliefs are left unchanged regarding salvation.  Again, I will repeat, I am nothing without God.  I have no strength, no purpose without God's direction in my life.  Because I believe what Jesus tells me, this has enlarged my heart, not made me nervous about salvation.  His Work in my life, my obedience towards Him is not so that I may enter into His Kingdom on my merit, it's because of HIS!  This gives me peace and joy.  He asked me and you to count the cost of following Him...some of Jesus' followers didn't and left Him.  

I hope to speak the words of Paul:  2 Tim. 4:7--I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:

And...to hear the Words of my Lord and Savior:  Matthew 25:23--His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

God has never changed, ever, He is timeless.

1 Samual 15:22--And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

I'm only a branch.  

God Bless 

watchman

With a humble and sincere heart, I ask to be forgiven.  If by any of my words they have brought you to this place, forgive me.  I too am only a branch, I am not the one to prune; or to cause a break.  Not that you and The Lord have broken, but a break in fellowship with one another.  Your words,  "I have become very discouraged and extremely saddened."  I know these words well.  I share them now with you.

Be them my words or any others, I started this discussion and I am responsible.  I am sorry and I do ask for your forgiveness.  I meant no offence.  Yet, often they happen.  In many ways this is how we discover about one another.  My heart is always about The Body being One in The Lord.  If black and white can have many shades, then we can say they same things, just in different ways.

Chris

Watchman,

Like, Chris, I, too am sorry you feel hurt and offended. All any of us have been saying is that God's love for you is based not on your performance but Christ’'s. That may sound hurtful. It is in love that hard truths are spoken just the same as comforting words are spoken. “We love because He first loved us.” 1 John 4:19 ESV

All any of us have been trying to say is that His wrath is not for you, but not because of your good works. He will never send His children into Hell to suffer His wrath because Jesus already suffered the wrath of God for them.

I may be wrong, but, it seems possible to me to have an incomplete view of Jesus and of knowing Him even after becoming a child of God for that's when we really begin to grow in knowledge of Him, and one's view may be incomplete but not totally inaccurate. Once we get to know Him better, we will see His love for us more clearly, and the love of Christ will control us -- we will love because He first loved us -- love with His love in words and deeds and actions (works, fruit).  Ephesians 2:10.

Yet, we can have assurance right here, right now, that we have eternal life in Him. We have it because of faith in Him, because we believe in the name of the Son of God. We rest in His saving work. All of us want to hear "well done" and to remain faithful until the end and to fight a good fight and keep the faith. He won't give up until our journey is finished and it's His to finish in us. 

1 John 5:11-13
The testimony is this, that God gave to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He who has the Son has the life. He who doesn’t have God’s Son doesn’t have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God. World English Bible

I understand discouragement and sadness very well.

Hi Group,

Charles Burwell -  very well put about "works of faith". When believers work in these acts , it's because we just want to show our love for Christ, and live these actions automatically....and sure not to try and score "points". It's a natural reaction to our Lord and Savior.

Now, pertaining to the point of being saved...........Some folks call a person saved when coming forward at Altar Call, or an Invitation.......or saying some kind of prayer in their living room.......or when they are lowered into the Waters of Baptism..... or just believing in the Lord Jesus (we'll talk more about this later).

 I believe, and I think Chris does also, that a person is truly saved when God sees that our repentance of our sin is genuine and accepts us, and makes us part of His body. Salvation presupposes genuine repentance  on our part, and such being accepted by God. Therefore, we should never speak of salvation as a decision of ours only, but rather as God's acceptance of a truly repentant sinner. If He accepts someone whom He is not able to keep to the very end, then Christ has failed. To me, this gives credence to "Once Saved, Always Saved".

 A decision only, which is man-initiated and constitutes merely man's emotions, and not God's acceptance of that decision,  is incomplete.

Lookey here guys, Acts 2:38 gives us the order of things: Peter responding to what they should do....." And Peter said to them, "Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit". Please notice, first requirement is a heart-felt repentance of one's previous life.

And, the most famous verse ever: John 3:16, " For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life". Key word here is "believe".......which most people don't understand. "Believe" (Greek - pisteuo, (verb) commit, have trust in, to have reliance upon Christ for salvation, and to live a life accordingly. This "belief" is far beyond an intellectual type of belief.

The Bible gives us prescriptions - II Corinthians 13:5, " Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you - unless indeed you fail the test".

And - Galatians 6:4-5, " But let each one examine his own work, and then he will have reason for boasting in regard to himself alone, and not in regard to another. (5) For each one shall bear his own load".

Those verses tell me that we should check our own selves out........without looking at anyone else's walk with the Lord.

Sometimes we are the toughest judges on ourselves......be fair and honest.

Grace and Peace.

Dear Watchman,

I really don't know where your AAG name originated from..........

I'm thinkin' from the book of Ezekiel.

Cause this world, this church of Jesus Christ, this website of AAG, needs watchmen on the wall.........and we need YOU.

Please stay........for all of us..............

Amen.

Jenie,

>>When would you specify......exactly.... when a person is actually saved.....and has his/her ticket stamped for eternity in heaven?

What does the bible say:

“I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life” (1 John 5:13)

That you may know that you have eternal life, when, when you die and are before the judgment seat of Christ or when God saves us, when we are born again? The answer is an obvious answer, when we examine what scripture has to say about the question.  We can now know that we are eternally secured in Christ, because He says so. The moment we are born again/from above, we have eternal life and are saved.

Luke 23:43 ESV

And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.”

believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved (Acts 16:31). “To all who received Him, to those who believed in His Name, He gave the right to become children of God” (John 1:12).

Ephesians 2:8-10
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--  not by works, so that no one can boast.  For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
Ephesians 2:5 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,…

John 6:50-71 ESV / 

This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever.

Jonh 11:25 24Martha said to Him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day." 25Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, 26and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?"…

I agree with your premise, Chris.

 

Why do we feel compelled to take the profoundly beautiful and uniquely powerful Gospel of Jesus Christ, which is so wonderfully presented in its fullness in the Scriptures, and reduce it down to some silly, superficial, catchy phrase?

 

If we want to really know what it means to be saved, to be born again, to have eternal life in Christ, and to have the assurance of salvation, let us turn to God's Word and be comforted or challenged by it as the case may be.

I'm not Chris but I will say "Amen" to this statement. 

If we want to really know what it means to be saved, to be born again, to have eternal life in Christ, and to have the assurance of salvation, let us turn to God's Word and be comforted or challenged by it as the case may be.

Sometimes, to some of us who try reading His Word , it  is to difficult and  mostly impossible to  comprehend. So when we "really" want to know ... we still cant figure it out.  

Is understanding always necessary for resting in God?

Amanda,

I think it is more of an attitude of trust. There are many things that we do not understand but we can always trust in our Lord. We all want to be better, do better and accomplish more. We become discouraged when we fail. We can learn to trust in Him and maybe even get to the place that Paul did when he spoke of boasting of his weaknesses. None of us really want to admit just how weak we really are. Yet, the confession of our weaknesses and the acknowledgement of our salvation, shows our faith and trust in our Savior. We come to understand that we will never get to perfection in this life and become worshippers of the One Who was perfect and gave it all to us. In Him I have everything I need. Wherever I am in my walk with Him, I am more than a conqueror. I am an overcomer. I am whole. 

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