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does bible consistently show that when people FIRST recieve Holy Spirit they will speak in tongues?

this topic is controversial so lets get what bible says.. many people point out 1 cor 12 and 14 showing that Not all speak in tongues to prove that not everyone will speak in tongues when they recieve the Holy SPIRIT to dwell in them for salvation. the only problem wiht using those scriptures is that is will contradict what happened in acts 8, 10, and 19. because the instructions for USING GIFT OF TONGUES was that 2 at MOST 3 should speak in tongues.. one at a time and there MUST be interpreter.. therefore in those chapters we obviously see that was not the case because THEY ALL spoke in tongues.. and didnt have an interpreter let alone who would he be interpreting it for.. in acts 19 paul was there.. he wouldnt allow them to be out of order and go against his own instruction.. so therefore we must conclude ther are DIFFERENT FUNCTIONS of speaking in tongues.. could one of the functions be to SHOW PROOF one has now recieved the holy spirit? how can we rule this out.. now i spoke in tongues when recieved holy spirit for first time, but i do not have the gift of speaking in tongues in the church to deliver message.. two different functions.. now i have prayed and began to speak in tongues a few times but not all the time.. so how can we disclaim the evidence of speaking in tongues

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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on January 23, 2010 at 11:20am
Luke 24:49 (New King James Version)
49 Behold, I send the Promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city of Jerusalem[a] until you are endued with power from on high.”

Great to have you among us seeking and discussing the truth that sets us free. Beloved the disciples were saved through their faith in Jesus Christ, like everyone else, but sis before the new convenent was established and the ascension of our Lord, the Holy Spirit would not reside in a person permanently.

The Holy Spirit would come and accomplished a work through and individual and then leave. Jesus had not ascended into heaven yet, so the promise of the indwelling of the H.S. was a much anticipated promise.

Since Jesus is seating on the right hand of God and the new convenent has establish the fact that we are temples of the Holy Spirit no second baptism is needed. What we do see thought out Acts and it’s a reality in our lives is the subsequent infillings/refreshments of the Spirit in our lives.


Love you in Christ. :)
Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on January 23, 2010 at 11:55am
Nancy -

Like Paul I to desire that everyone would speak in tongues because it edifies the inner man in very powerful ways. But like Paul, I know that not all will speak in tongues.

Like any other gift - if you seek it and asked believing and it’s under God's will, He will grant it.

Chao!
Permalink Reply by GREG ROBY on January 22, 2010 at 9:51pm
i agree that there is mis use of tongues.. especially THE GIFT OF TONGUES.. obviously its important or it wouldnt be IN THE BIBLE.. secondly when you say there is no more gifts of tongues and about the ceasing YOUR MISINTERPRETATION is leading you away from the truth.. if tongues have ceased then KNOWLEDGE HAS VANISHED AND PROPHECIES ARE NO LONGER IN USE. now i ask does the bible say that in GODS CHURCH there is GIFTS OF TONGUES AND PROPHECYS.. does paul not say FORBID NOT SPEAKING IN TONGUES.. why would paul say that tongues will cease, then spend a whole chapter later to explain PROPER USE OF TONGUES.. now also want to address that SPEAKING IN TONGUES is use by GOD as a SIGN that one has receieved the HOLY GHOST.. do you say that is false? i also want to say the bible says that there are professing christians WITH A FORM OF GODLINESS BUT DENY (THE POWER THEREOF). Jesus also said in mark 16 there will be SIGNS THAT FOLLOW.. but again i agree with THE MISUSE OF TONGUES, but that doesnt nullify that its not real.. we know satan does a counterfeit of Gods things so when people fake tongues and so on that just PROVES there must be REAL TONGUES.. if there wasnt satan wouldnt try to counterfeit it. and i just wanted to address people always refer to THE CHURCH FATHERS OR HISTORY and go back to 2nd century and etc, but the BOOK OF ACTS IS THE BEGINING OF CHURCH HISTORY. so lets not rely on MENS INTERPRETATION and get the info from THE BIBLE..
Permalink Reply by Carla on January 23, 2010 at 5:46am
Here is an article from www.gotquestions.org

Question: "What is the gift of speaking in tongues?"

Answer: The first occurrence of speaking in tongues occurred on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2:1-4. The apostles went out and shared the gospel with the crowds, speaking to them in their own languages: “We hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!” (Acts 2:11). The Greek word translated tongues literally means “languages.” Therefore, the gift of tongues is speaking in a language a person does not know in order to minister to someone who does speak that language. In 1 Corinthians chapters 12–14, Paul discusses miraculous gifts, saying, “Now, brothers, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction?” (1 Corinthians 14:6). According to the apostle Paul, and in agreement with the tongues described in Acts, speaking in tongues is valuable to the one hearing God’s message in his or her own language, but it is useless to everyone else unless it is interpreted/translated.

A person with the gift of interpreting tongues (1 Corinthians 12:30) could understand what a tongues-speaker was saying even though he did not know the language that was being spoken. The tongues interpreter would then communicate the message of the tongues speaker to everyone else, so all could understand. “For this reason anyone who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret what he says” (1 Corinthians 14:13). Paul’s conclusion regarding tongues that were not interpreted is powerful: “But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue” (1 Corinthians 14:19).

Is the gift of tongues for today? First Corinthians 13:8 mentions the gift of tongues ceasing, although it connects the ceasing with the arrival of the “perfect” in 1 Corinthians 13:10. Some point to a difference in the tense of the Greek verbs referring to prophecy and knowledge “ceasing” and that of tongues “being ceased” as evidence for tongues ceasing before the arrival of the “perfect.” While possible, this is not explicitly clear from the text. Some also point to passages such as Isaiah 28:11 and Joel 2:28-29 as evidence that speaking in tongues was a sign of God's oncoming judgment. First Corinthians 14:22 describes tongues as a “sign to unbelievers.” According to this argument, the gift of tongues was a warning to the Jews that God was going to judge Israel for rejecting Jesus Christ as Messiah. Therefore, when God did in fact judge Israel (with the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans in A.D. 70), the gift of tongues would no longer serve its intended purpose. While this view is possible, the primary purpose of tongues being fulfilled does not necessarily demand its cessation. Scripture does not conclusively assert that the gift of speaking in tongues has ceased.

At the same time, if the gift of speaking in tongues were active in the church today, it would be performed in agreement with Scripture. It would be a real and intelligible language (1 Corinthians 14:10). It would be for the purpose of communicating God's Word with a person of another language (Acts 2:6-12). It would be in agreement with the command God gave through the apostle Paul, “If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God” (1 Corinthians 14:27-28). It would also be in accordance with 1 Corinthians 14:33, “For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.”

God most definitely can give a person the gift of speaking in tongues to enable him or her to communicate with a person who speaks another language. The Holy Spirit is sovereign in the dispersion of the spiritual gifts (1 Corinthians 12:11). Just imagine how much more productive missionaries could be if they did not have to go to language school, and were instantly able to speak to people in their own language. However, God does not seem to be doing this. Tongues does not seem to occur today in the manner it did in the New Testament, despite the fact that it would be immensely useful. The vast majority of believers who claim to practice the gift of speaking in tongues do not do so in agreement with the Scriptures mentioned above. These facts lead to the conclusion that the gift of tongues has ceased or is at least a rarity in God's plan for the church today.

Recommended Resource: New Testament Teaching on Tongues by Merrill Unger.


Question: "What is praying in tongues? Is praying in tongues a prayer language between a believer and God?"

Answer: As a background, please read our article on the gift of speaking in tongues. There are four primary Scripture passages that are cited as evidence for praying in tongues: Romans 8:26; 1 Corinthians 14:4-17; Ephesians 6:18; and Jude verse 20. Ephesians 6:18 and Jude 20 mention “praying in the Spirit.” However, tongues as a prayer language is not a likely interpretation of “praying in the Spirit.”

Romans 8:26 teaches us, “In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express.” Two key points make it highly unlikely that Romans 8:26 is referring to tongues as a prayer language. First, Romans 8:26 states that it is the Spirit who “groans,” not believers. Second, Romans 8:26 states that the “groans” of the Spirit “cannot be expressed.” The very essence of speaking in tongues is uttering words.

That leaves us with 1 Corinthians 14:4-17 and verse 14 especially: “For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.” First Corinthians 14:14 distinctly mentions “praying in tongues.” What does this mean? First, studying the context is immensely valuable. First Corinthians chapter 14 is primarily a comparison/contrast of the gift of speaking in tongues and the gift of prophecy. Verses 2-5 make it clear that Paul views prophecy as a gift superior to tongues. At the same time, Paul exclaims the value of tongues and declares that he is glad that he speaks in tongues more than anyone (verse 18).

Acts chapter 2 describes the first occurrence of the gift of tongues. On the day of Pentecost, the apostles spoke in tongues. Acts chapter 2 makes it clear that the apostles were speaking in a human language (Acts 2:6-8). The word translated “tongues” in both Acts chapter 2 and 1 Corinthians chapter 14 is glossa which means “language.” It is the word from which we get our modern English word “glossary.” Speaking in tongues was the ability to speak in a language the speaker does not know, in order to communicate the gospel to someone who does speak that language. In the multicultural area of Corinth, it seems that the gift of tongues was especially valuable and prominent. The Corinthians believers were able to better communicate the gospel and God’s Word as a result of the gift of tongues. However, Paul made it abundantly clear that even in this usage of tongues, it was to be interpreted or “translated” (1 Corinthians 14:13, 27). A Corinthian believer would speak in tongues, proclaiming God’s truth to someone who spoke that language, and then that believer, or another believer in the church, was to interpret what was spoken so that the entire assembly could understand what was said.

What, then, is praying in tongues, and how is it different than speaking in tongues? First Corinthians 14:13-17 indicates that praying in tongues is also to be interpreted. As a result, it seems that praying in tongues was offering a prayer to God. This prayer would minister to someone who spoke that language, but would also need to be interpreted so that the entire body could be edified.

This interpretation does not agree with those who view praying in tongues as a prayer language. This alternate understanding can be summarized as follows: praying in tongues is a personal prayer language between a believer and God (1 Corinthians 13:1) that a believer uses to edify himself (1 Corinthians 14:4). This interpretation is unbiblical for the following reasons: 1) How could praying in tongues be a private prayer language if it is to be interpreted (1 Corinthians 14:13-17)? 2) How could praying in tongues be for self-edification when Scripture says that the spiritual gifts are for the edification of the church, not the self (1 Corinthians 12:7). 3) How can praying in tongues be a private prayer language if the gift of tongues is a “sign to unbelievers” (1 Corinthians 14:22)? 4) The Bible makes it clear that not everyone possesses the gift of tongues (1 Corinthians 12:11, 28-30). How could tongues be a gift for self-edification if not every believer can possess it? Do we not all need to be edified?

Some understand praying in tongues to be a “secret code language” that prevents Satan and his demons from understanding our prayers and thereby gaining an advantage over us. This interpretation is unbiblical for the following reasons: 1) The New Testament consistently describes tongues as a human language. It is unlikely that Satan and his demons are unable to understand human languages. 2) The Bible records countless believers praying in their own language, out loud, with no concern of Satan intercepting the prayer. Even if Satan and/or his demons hear and understand the prayers we pray, they have absolutely no power to prevent God from answering the prayers according to His will. We know that God hears our prayers, and that fact makes it irrelevant whether Satan and his demons hear and understand our prayers.

What do we say, then, about the many Christians who have experienced praying in tongues and find it to be very personally edifying? First, we must base our faith and practice on Scripture, not experience. We must view our experiences in light of Scripture, not interpret Scripture in light of our experiences. Second, many of the cults and world religions also report occurrences of speaking in tongues/praying in tongues. Obviously the Holy Spirit is not gifting these unbelieving individuals. So, it seems that the demons are able to counterfeit the gift of speaking in tongues. This should cause us to compare even more carefully our experiences with Scripture. Third, studies have shown how speaking/praying in tongues can be a learned behavior. Through hearing and observing others speak in tongues, a person can learn the procedure, even subconsciously. This is the most likely explanation for the vast majority of instances of speaking/praying in tongues among Christians. Fourth, the feeling of “self-edification” is natural. The human body produces adrenaline and endorphins when it experiences something new, exciting, emotional, and/or disconnected from rational thought.

Praying in tongues is most definitely an issue on which Christians can respectfully and lovingly agree to disagree. Praying in tongues is not what determines salvation. Praying in tongues is not what separates a mature Christian from an immature Christian. Whether or not there is such a thing as praying in tongues as a personal prayer language is not a fundamental of the Christian faith. So, while we believe the biblical interpretation of praying in tongues leads away from the idea of a private prayer language for personal edification, we also recognize that many who practice such are our brothers and sisters in Christ and are worthy of our love and respect.

Recommended Resource: Satisfied by the Promise of the Spirit by Thomas Edgar.
Permalink Reply by JB on April 12, 2012 at 10:48pm

1 Corinthians 13:1 (KJV)


1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

We know what the tongues of men are, but for those that believe it has to be a known tongue, Japanese, German, English, etc. But what is the tongue of an Angel ?

I had this same discussion with my son when he was a Baptist ! Then he received the Holy Ghost and started speaking in tongues. So you will have to try to convince someone else that tongues are not for today.

Why do people have to see it, feel it, taste it, smell it or hear it before they can believe?

This to me would be a repudiation of the Word of God by the intellectuals, not by those walking in the Spirit.

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on April 13, 2012 at 3:59am

Joe,

 

Two things. one an observation and the other a comment.

 

1) You tend to accuse everyone and anyone who does not align with your beliefs as either being an intellectual or not walking in the Spirit or both. This simply is not the case.

2) Speaking in tongues is a gift that is given today, but it is not the sign of one being filled with the Holy Spirit.

Permalink Reply by JB on April 15, 2012 at 12:45am

　

LT.

I’m sorry if you have taken my short responses to be an accusation of others being intellectuals and not walking in the Spirit or aligning with my beliefs. I am aware of the fact that I do come across at times as being a little arrogant or a little bolder than I aught to with the Word, especially on an open forum such as this. I guess it is because have a hard time trying to understand why there are so much controversy over the bible, even on things that are so plainly spelled out in the Word. Let alone the deeper things that must be understood by the Spirit. The Spirit that searches even the deeper things of God.

When we say that we believe everything the bible says, and then we will make statements that are in direct opposition to what it is saying. Trying to reason things out intellectually, when the bible says the Word is Spirit and life, that the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God., for they are foolishness unto him, now to me that is pretty plain that what is being said can only be comprehended by the Spirit, not by our intellect. We just need to read 1Cor.2:6-16.

The reason I say this is because I know of a person that is called an “apologist,” He is a very intellectual person on radio, I used to listen to him every evening telling people that the bible isn’t actually saying what they think it is saying. He was constantly running down all those that are of the faith movement, or the word of faith people, as they call them.

I always thought he had a form of godliness , but denying the power there of.

I also see that here on this forum, but if I confuse anyone with my boldness, I will refrain from responding.

I try to walk according to the list of attributes of love I have posted previously,

Especially the one that says, I am not conceited, arrogant or inflated with pride! I know I have a lot of work to do on that one. lol

I know Roy knows me pretty well, and he does not always agree with me, right Roy?

I am not one of those that thinks that a person has to speak in tongues to be filled with the Holy Ghost, Acts 4:31 (KJV)
31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness. Even intellectually we can see that they were not speaking in tongues.

As far as the Baptist are concerned; I know some that do believe in speaking in tongues, but I understand that they do not teach or practice it in their services. There is one Baptist preacher on TV that was filled with Holy Spirit, and now preaches it in his church and on TV. His name is Ron Philips. So I have nothing against anyone that doesn’t believe in speaking in tongues. When I don’t know what to pray for “as I aught” I will pray in the Spirit, or tongues or just praising God for His goodness. You can praise Him in the Spirit in what ever you are doing, The bible says in Ps.32:2 and Ps.43:4 about praising God on the harp etc. When we, or I am speaking in tongues, I am speaking to God, not man, because man cannot understand what is being said. 1 Corinthians 14:15-17 (KJV)
15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.

So I am sorry if I have offended anyone with my boldness, and will try to respond with more subtly in the future.

Joe

　

　

　

Permalink Reply by RoyW on April 15, 2012 at 5:38am

I know Roy knows me pretty well, and he does not always agree with me, right Roy?

Right, Joe. :)

And, here is an area we might have a disagreement. When you say that these things can only be understood in the spirit I am curious whose spirit is going to interpret these things. I believe God wrote the Bible is a way that we could understand what He is saying. There are some things He spoke about the future that we cannot completely understand until the event has already taken place and then the meaning becomes clear.

But, as for interpreting what the Scripture is saying concerning tongues, I believe we can interpret it in a way that makes sense to our minds. I think sometimes you attempt to say things can only be understood in the spirit if it is an area that you have a slightly different view. I have seen and heard you refer to the things of the spirit as it could only be understood in the spirit and if I or someone else didn't agree with your interpretation, the inference you give is that we are not listening to the Spirit but to our natural minds. Am I correct here, Joe?

I think the things we are speaking of here can be understood by a born-again believer who is seeking to read these things using the minds our Lord gave them. For instance: I believe when the Bible talks about us being healed by His stripes, you believe that means physically and spiritually. I don't believe that we can expect God to heal everyone all the time as His stripes heal our eternal souls rather than our physical bodies. I do believe God heals but that is another part of His Word that covers that. But, I do not want to get into an argument on that, I am just using that to point out that sometimes people can have differences of opinion but that doesn't mean that one person has more of the Spirit and has a special ability to understand what God is saying. I agree that sometimes God has said some things very abundantly clear. Other times, we will have a difference of opinion but I really don't think it is because one has more of the Spirit. I think we all have a theology and we try to make the Word agree with our theology. I am trying my best to avoid that and look at a verse's clear meaning. That is what I am attempting to do, here, with tongues.

Blessings. I will love you no matter what and I can certainly attest to the fact that sometimes people take you wrong. I can attest to the fact that you are a very good and loving man. I know you love God deeply.

Permalink Reply by JB on April 15, 2012 at 7:56am

Hi Roy

Quote

When you say that these things can only be understood in the spirit I am curious whose spirit is going to interpret these things.

 

Hey Roy! If you were in a pulpit preaching what ever a person ask you to teach on, and that person said 1Cor.2:6-16,

Tell me how you “or anyone else” would explain, or teach this? v. by v. and support your thoughts with scripture references. Seeing conjecture as having little or no value.

How could one present an intellectual discourse of this passage?

This is the header for this portion of scripture in the KJV.

Only to those of mature faith can he impart God's wisdom

6　Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

7　But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

8　Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

9　But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

10　But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

11　For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12　Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13　Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14　But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

15　But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

16　For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

I would think that we all understand that there is no such thing as “New Revelation” it has all been revealed in the Word, it only becomes revelation to us as we grow in grace and the knowledge of God. There are a lot of us that are living way below what God has provided for us that love Him.

I believe we all have heard of the man waiting on the house top for deliverance from a flood, and refusing the boats and helicopter that was sent to rescue him.

And the story about the man coming to America on a big ship, eating his sack lunch, watching everyone else enjoying dinners provided by the shipping company, not knowing that all the meals were included in the price of the ticket.

I feel that this is what is happening to a lot of people sitting in these churches, that are still preaching condemnation, and a distorted view of humility.

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Hosa.4:6, Pr.29:18 　Where there is no vision, the people perish: but he that keepeth the law, happy is he.

Joe

Permalink Reply by RoyW on April 15, 2012 at 12:13pm

Joe,

How would it be possible to understand that none of our sins would be held against us in the judgment unless we understood God's message of the cross. The only way to understand that is to experience it. To those who understand that by their experience of forgiveness have been made perfect. Anyway, I don't really want to argue. I am just happy to know Jesus as Savior. It may be that I don't have enough Spirit to see the deeper meaning of His Word.

Permalink Reply by Amanda on April 16, 2012 at 5:27pm

Joe,

You said:

I am not one of those that thinks that a person has to speak in tongues to be filled with the Holy Ghost, Acts 4:31 (KJV)
31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness. Even intellectually we can see that they were not speaking in tongues.

Not too long ago, when I read your reply in another discussion, I guess I misunderstood it because you seemed to be saying in it something that was just the opposite> Here it is:

http://www.allaboutgod.net/forum/topics/what-if-i-dont-speak-in?com...

And you said:

I for one do believe that the gift is for everyone, but we know that because of the lack of knowledge of the gifts , all gifts for that matter, we don’t operate in because most don’t know that they are free gifts: given to the body of Christ for edification of the church, and for our own edification, as in Jude 1:18-20,How they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts, these be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit. But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost.

Also, my understanding is that the intellect is part of the soul--mind, will, emotions, and intellect. Therefore, when you accuse me of using my intellect instead of being Spirit-driven, it confuses me and also is a bit hurtful. I understand that the body is the flesh and operates in the senses, such as taste, touch, sight, sound, smell, and there are other senses as well, but I will not go into that. The soul differs from the flesh, doesn't it?  The spirit is made new when we are born again and the soul is a buffer of sorts between the spirit and the flesh (body). That is my understanding anyway. There is a constant battle between the spirit and the flesh and most of it occurs in the mind (soul).

Also, we are told that love is more important than speaking in tongues. We are also told to desire the better gifts. How is it that one can have all the gifts? I don't understand that.

 

Permalink Reply by RoyW on April 16, 2012 at 6:29pm

Amanda,

In Joe's behalf, I do see a difference in the two posts. The first one indicates that one does not have to speak in tongues. The second one indicates that all could speak in other tongues if they had the correct knowledge. I don't agree with the second post but do agree with the first. However, I must admit that Joe has been around a long time and does love God very much. When I say a long time I do mean a looooonnnnnng time. I do think he has understanding beyond me but I still must be faithful to my understanding of Scripture. I do not think all will be gifted to speak in other tongues. I can see where there could be gaps, however, in my position.

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