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I've been so busy I haven't kept up here, but I wanted to pose a question that I will also pose in the forums.

I wanted to check out the beliefs of a local church that is closer to home where a family member attends.

Everything seemed to be good until I read their stand on gifts.

We believe that God is sovereign in the bestowing of his gifts, and that these gifts are intended to edify the Church. We believe that the gifts of healing, tongues, interpretation of tongues, performance of miracles, and other gifts associated with the charismatic movement were temporary, sign gifts that are no longer needed after the completion of the New Testament and therefor are not practiced in the Church today. We do believe that the sick may call on the elders of the Church to administer anointing oil and to pray for them. God is the great and divine healer and does hear and answer prayers of faith in accordance with His will for the sick and afflicted.

Where does scripture tell us the gifts were only temporary? How can one say the believe God bestows gifts but then say....except these?

A lot of churches hold this belief, but I've always heard the reasoning as being they "believe" (they believe they were only for the 12 or only for a time...though Paul spoke in tongues but wasn't one of the 12). What I haven't seen is any of them say...this is what scripture says.

So if we say the Bible is truth and the Bible says God gives the gifts of prophesy, tongues, healing, etc., aren't we saying God's Word isn't true?

Isn't it more plausible to believe that people's trust and belief in miracles has grown dim rather than God only giving temporary gifts while saying they follow everyone who believes rather than just the New Testament saints?

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Something that I can't understand is for many years, the kind of church group I attended always taught that today we are to go by the spiritual gifts listed only in Romans 12:

6 We have different gifts, according to the grace given to each of us. If your gift is prophesying, then prophesy in accordance with your[a]faith; 7 if it is serving, then serve; if it is teaching, then teach; 8 if it is to encourage, then give encouragement; if it is giving, then give generously; if it is to lead,[b] do it diligently; if it is to show mercy, do it cheerfully. NIV

Names were given to those who received a gift according to the type of gift: the prophet, the server, the teacher, the exhorter, the giver, the ruler, the mercy gift (the merciful).

According to their teaching I qualified for being the server, and my husband met the description of the ruler. Also, I had the mercy gift while he was the giver.

The part that perplexes me is that prophesying is listed among the miraculous gifts, which were also taught by them to have ceased and that the foundation, or starting, of the church was through the apostles and the prophets and those offices also have ceased and now we have only evangelists and teachers and they refrained from even calling anyone a pastor but preferred the word minister instead, saying there's only one Pastor, the Good Shepherd Jesus, and only one to be called Reverend, which is God Himself.

The part that I don't understand is that prophecy and prophesying is considered a miraculous gift. However, the teaching described the modern day gift of prophesying as Speaking on behalf of God by Relaying what God wanted taught which is found in the now completed Word of God, the 66 books of the Bible given to us by Holy Spirit. They maintained that not all faith, wisdom, and understanding are miraculous gifts of the Spirit, and that the bible tells us the perfect will of God and the prophets were involved in getting the words of the bible recorded. Yet, Prophesy would end according to Zechariah 13:1-2 “But wisdom and understanding continue" since not all faith, wisdom, and understanding are miraculous gifts (prophesy in accordance with your[a]faith).

This morning, one of my devotionals said:

Satan is an absolute wizard at weaving a spell of deceit and confusion and self-delusion so that you get all turned around. Wrong turns into right, white to black and black to white, and suddenly other people hear you arguing that 2+2=5. We need our Good Shepherd and his solid and changeless Word: “He guides me in paths of righteousness for his name’s sake” (Psalm 23:3).
Mark Jeske, Time of Grace
I fear at times I'll never get the truth sorted out :(

LT ........

To your comments, a great big loud AMEN!

Grace and Peace.

"Isn't it more plausible to believe that people's trust and belief in miracles has grown dim rather than God only giving temporary gifts while saying they follow everyone who believes rather than just the New Testament saints?"

This is not about trusting and believing in miracles/signs/wonders, this is about trusting and believing in the God of Glory.  Again, I stress that the appointed way of God is through prayer.

Is there prophesy still out there?  I thought all prophesy was complete at the end of the Canon.  If someone has new prophesy should that be included?


Please, for clarification reasons, I would also stress that these are the miraculous signs and wonders....and I find that I would be hard pressed to say the word "extinct" for that definition is rather final:

1. no longer in existence; lost or especially having died out leaving no living representatives
2. (of e.g. volcanos) permanently inactive
3. being out or having grown cold

The Bible speaks of the 2 witnesses in Revelation that will be performing great signs & wonders, so if we are to use the word extinct, it would be untrue. 

Love is the continuous gift that never ever ceases.  Biblical love.

Any gifts not of God will be shown in the light. It is only through trusting God and prayer, and I will include through God's plan, that these gifts are true.

Not all prophecy occurred immediately nor was it geared towards the church as a whole. God gave prophetic wisdom to individuals. Such as Peters vision that sent him to save the house of Cornelius.

I have a good friend who has come to me with a personal prophetic word that spoke to exactly what I was thinking with no way she knew unless given by God. Another friend, not knowing my financial situation, who shhok my hand leaving a $100 bill in it.

I've had two prophetic experiences myself.

There was a day I was sitting reading when out of the blue, I saw a friend with a gun to his head. I had no choice but to drop facedown on the floor praying desperately until the feeling of doom passed. Months later I found it had been true.

But here is why I've been emphatic of what God's called me to and why I added "through God's plan".

While being quiet before God and listening with my heart, I heard deep in my spirit that I would teach new converts. Did I trust, did I pray to teach? In all honesty, I argued with God. I had absolutely no desire to teach. In fact, I wouldn't read scripture or ask questions in Sunday school because I feared being in front of scrutiny by others. Within a few months though, I not only began to speak out with questions and insight as well as reading scripture aloud, but I began having a strong desire to teach new converts struggling with their salvation. That made up my mind didn't it? No. I argued again...God there's no such class in our church. A month or two later and Pastor announced new life groups forming in a month. When I read the brochure, how shocked would you think I was to see New Life for New Converts? I read it but it was basics I knew back and forth. So two other groups were interesting but I wasn't sure which would appeal most. I asked the group leader and he said to ask Ralph who was leading a group. How shocked would you think I was to find Ralph was the New Life leader? How shocked when he asked me to join his group because he needed an assistant?

God pulled a Gideon on me. When I didn't believe or trust, He still had a plan.

For this reason specifically, I KNOW He is and I have no doubts on prophecy.



The greatest resource that we possess as Christians is the Holy Spirit.

It does not matter which denomination you belong to.

We all need the Holy Spirit and His help to live lives that are pleasing to God.

No one will find much success in their Christian lives without the Help of the Holy Spirit.

It is all a matter of who is holding the reigns in our lives.

Is self the one who is calling the shots in our lives, or is it the Holy Spirit?

Maybe you have never paid much attention to the Holy Spirit.

This does not diminish how much you need His help to live a life that is pleasing to God.

There has been so much mis-information about Him and what He does.

Let’s look to the Word of God to frame our understanding of who He is, and what He does in our lives.



Luke wrote in Acts 19:1-2 (NLT)

1 - While Apollos was in Corinth, Paul traveled through the interior regions until he reached Ephesus, on the coast, where he found several believers.

2 - “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” he asked them.

“No,” they replied, “we haven’t even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”



These Christians did not know about the Holy Spirit.

Yet they Had already believed on Jesus as their Savior.



There are many who call themselves Christians today who haven’t even heard that there is a Holy Spirit too.”

They try the best they can to get by, but God has given them a resource which is God the Holy Spirit.



The Apostle John wrote in John 7:39 (NLT),

When he said “living water,” he was speaking of the Spirit, who would be given to everyone believing in him.

But the Spirit had not yet been given, because Jesus had not yet entered into his glory.



The Holy Spirit was going to be given to everyone believing in Jesus as their savior.



Back in John 14:23 (NLT)
Jesus replied, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word.

My Father will love him, and WE will come to him and make OUR home with him.


Notice that Jesus said “WE & OUR…”


God is a Trinity. The Father & The Son & The Holy Spirit are One GOD.

Jesus said that he was going to ask the Father to give them ANOTHER Helper (just like himself, The Holy Spirit).


He would be a Helper, Comforter, Advocate, Intercessor, Counselor, Strengthener, Standby, who would be with those who are believers forever, who would lead them into all truth.


In the Old Testament the Prophet Joel told of a day when the Holy Spirit would be poured out.


Joel 2:28-29 (NIV)

28 - “And afterward, I will pour out my Spirit on all people.

Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions.

29 - Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days.



In Acts 2:17-18, the Apostle Peter quotes these verses from Joel, declaring that the outpouring of the Spirit was taking place.



This Heavenly resource is at our disposal today.

The Holy Spirit is the power of God in the life of a Believer. (Acts 1:8, Matthew 3:11)

God the Holy Spirit is not only with us; He is in us. (1 John 4:4)

The Holy Spirit cultivates the life of God in us and we begin to develop the Fruit of the Spirit; love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness. (Galatians 5:22)



The Holy Spirit also gives gifts to the people of God for the purpose of ministering to the Body of Christ and spreading the Gospel Jesus Christ into all the world.



The Apostle Paul list some of the gift from the Holy Spirit in 1 Corinthians 12:7-11 (NLT).

A spiritual gift is given to each of us so we can help each other. 

To one person the Spirit gives the ability to give wise advice; to another the same Spirit gives a message of special knowledge. 

The same Spirit gives great faith to another, and to someone else the one Spirit gives the gift of healing. 

10 He gives one person the power to perform miracles, and another the ability to prophesy.

He gives someone else the ability to discern whether a message is from the Spirit of God or from another spirit.

Still another person is given the ability to speak in unknown languages, while another is given the ability to interpret what is being said. 

11 It is the one and only Spirit who distributes all these gifts. He alone decides which gift each person should have.


This resource of the Holy Spirit in the life of a Believer is amazing.

This is just a glimpse of all that Holy Spirit does in our lives and in the life of the Church.

I will continue to unpack in the next few days more of the wonderful workings of the Spirit.


Spiritual Gifts – The Holy Spirit sovereignly bestows spiritual gifts to every believer.  These gifts are God-given abilities that Christians should employ to serve one another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.  God used some spiritual gifts (such as apostleship, miracles, tongues, interpretation of tongues, healing, discerning spirits, and prophecy) that were temporary in nature as signs (Isaiah 28:11; cf. 1 Corinthians 14:21-22) to unbelieving Jews and as a validation of the New Testament message and its messengers in lieu of the completed canon of Scripture (1 Corinthians 13:10).  The temporary gifts legitimately functioned until the completion of the canon of Scripture, ceasing by the end of the first century (Romans 12:6-8; 1 Corinthians 12:7-11, 28-30; 1 Corinthians 13:8-10; 1 Corinthians 14:21-22; Ephesians 2:20; Ephesians 4:11; Hebrews 2:3-4; 1 Peter 4:10). Other spiritual gifts are permanent, and include: pastor-teacher, evangelism, missionary, exhortation, teaching, administration, giving, showing mercy, and helps. Chafer Theological Seminary


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