We believe that God is sovereign in the bestowing of his gifts, and that these gifts are intended to edify the Church. We believe that the gifts of healing, tongues, interpretation of tongues, performance of miracles, and other gifts associated with the charismatic movement were temporary, sign gifts that are no longer needed after the completion of the New Testament and therefor are not practiced in the Church today. We do believe that the sick may call on the elders of the Church to administer anointing oil and to pray for them. God is the great and divine healer and does hear and answer prayers of faith in accordance with His will for the sick and afflicted.
Satan is an absolute wizard at weaving a spell of deceit and confusion and self-delusion so that you get all turned around. Wrong turns into right, white to black and black to white, and suddenly other people hear you arguing that 2+2=5. We need our Good Shepherd and his solid and changeless Word: “He guides me in paths of righteousness for his name’s sake” (Psalm 23:3).Mark Jeske, Time of Grace
To your comments, a great big loud AMEN!
Grace and Peace.
This is not about trusting and believing in miracles/signs/wonders, this is about trusting and believing in the God of Glory. Again, I stress that the appointed way of God is through prayer.
Is there prophesy still out there? I thought all prophesy was complete at the end of the Canon. If someone has new prophesy should that be included?
Please, for clarification reasons, I would also stress that these are the miraculous signs and wonders....and I find that I would be hard pressed to say the word "extinct" for that definition is rather final:
1. no longer in existence; lost or especially having died out leaving no living representatives
2. (of e.g. volcanos) permanently inactive
3. being out or having grown cold
The Bible speaks of the 2 witnesses in Revelation that will be performing great signs & wonders, so if we are to use the word extinct, it would be untrue.
Love is the continuous gift that never ever ceases. Biblical love.
“OUR GREATEST RESOURSE, THE HOLY SPIRIT”
The greatest resource that we possess as Christians is the Holy Spirit.
It does not matter which denomination you belong to.
We all need the Holy Spirit and His help to live lives that are pleasing to God.
No one will find much success in their Christian lives without the Help of the Holy Spirit.
It is all a matter of who is holding the reigns in our lives.
Is self the one who is calling the shots in our lives, or is it the Holy Spirit?
Maybe you have never paid much attention to the Holy Spirit.
This does not diminish how much you need His help to live a life that is pleasing to God.
There has been so much mis-information about Him and what He does.
Let’s look to the Word of God to frame our understanding of who He is, and what He does in our lives.
Luke wrote in Acts 19:1-2 (NLT)
1 - While Apollos was in Corinth, Paul traveled through the interior regions until he reached Ephesus, on the coast, where he found several believers.
2 - “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” he asked them.
“No,” they replied, “we haven’t even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”
These Christians did not know about the Holy Spirit.
Yet they Had already believed on Jesus as their Savior.
There are many who call themselves Christians today who haven’t even heard that there is a Holy Spirit too.”
They try the best they can to get by, but God has given them a resource which is God the Holy Spirit.
The Apostle John wrote in John 7:39 (NLT),
When he said “living water,” he was speaking of the Spirit, who would be given to everyone believing in him.
But the Spirit had not yet been given, because Jesus had not yet entered into his glory.
The Holy Spirit was going to be given to everyone believing in Jesus as their savior.
Back in John 14:23 (NLT)
Jesus replied, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word.
My Father will love him, and WE will come to him and make OUR home with him.
Notice that Jesus said “WE & OUR…”
God is a Trinity. The Father & The Son & The Holy Spirit are One GOD.
Jesus said that he was going to ask the Father to give them ANOTHER Helper (just like himself, The Holy Spirit).
He would be a Helper, Comforter, Advocate, Intercessor, Counselor, Strengthener, Standby, who would be with those who are believers forever, who would lead them into all truth.
In the Old Testament the Prophet Joel told of a day when the Holy Spirit would be poured out.
Joel 2:28-29 (NIV)
28 - “And afterward, I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions.
29 - Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days.
In Acts 2:17-18, the Apostle Peter quotes these verses from Joel, declaring that the outpouring of the Spirit was taking place.
This Heavenly resource is at our disposal today.
The Holy Spirit is the power of God in the life of a Believer. (Acts 1:8, Matthew 3:11)
God the Holy Spirit is not only with us; He is in us. (1 John 4:4)
The Holy Spirit cultivates the life of God in us and we begin to develop the Fruit of the Spirit; love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness. (Galatians 5:22)
The Holy Spirit also gives gifts to the people of God for the purpose of ministering to the Body of Christ and spreading the Gospel Jesus Christ into all the world.
The Apostle Paul list some of the gift from the Holy Spirit in 1 Corinthians 12:7-11 (NLT).
7 A spiritual gift is given to each of us so we can help each other.
8 To one person the Spirit gives the ability to give wise advice; to another the same Spirit gives a message of special knowledge.
9 The same Spirit gives great faith to another, and to someone else the one Spirit gives the gift of healing.
10 He gives one person the power to perform miracles, and another the ability to prophesy.
He gives someone else the ability to discern whether a message is from the Spirit of God or from another spirit.
Still another person is given the ability to speak in unknown languages, while another is given the ability to interpret what is being said.
11 It is the one and only Spirit who distributes all these gifts. He alone decides which gift each person should have.
This resource of the Holy Spirit in the life of a Believer is amazing.
This is just a glimpse of all that Holy Spirit does in our lives and in the life of the Church.
I will continue to unpack in the next few days more of the wonderful workings of the Spirit.
Spiritual Gifts – The Holy Spirit sovereignly bestows spiritual gifts to every believer. These gifts are God-given abilities that Christians should employ to serve one another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God. God used some spiritual gifts (such as apostleship, miracles, tongues, interpretation of tongues, healing, discerning spirits, and prophecy) that were temporary in nature as signs (Isaiah 28:11; cf. 1 Corinthians 14:21-22) to unbelieving Jews and as a validation of the New Testament message and its messengers in lieu of the completed canon of Scripture (1 Corinthians 13:10). The temporary gifts legitimately functioned until the completion of the canon of Scripture, ceasing by the end of the first century (Romans 12:6-8; 1 Corinthians 12:7-11, 28-30; 1 Corinthians 13:8-10; 1 Corinthians 14:21-22; Ephesians 2:20; Ephesians 4:11; Hebrews 2:3-4; 1 Peter 4:10). Other spiritual gifts are permanent, and include: pastor-teacher, evangelism, missionary, exhortation, teaching, administration, giving, showing mercy, and helps. Chafer Theological Seminary
Mark are you saying that Eph.4:11 doesn't apply to the Church or I might say the New Creation of today?
The short answer to your question is regarding apostleship, miracles, tongues, interpretation of tongues, healing, discerning spirits, and prophecy are no longer spiritual gifts available in the Church as those all ended when the canon of scripture was completed. Only the spiritual gifts of pastor-teacher, evangelism, missionary, exhortation, teaching, administration, giving, showing mercy, and helps are available in the Church Age.
Ephesians 11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, nfor the 5edifying of othe body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith pand of the knowledge of the Son of God, to qa perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14 that we should no longer be rchildren, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of sdeceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the thead—Christ—16 ufrom whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love. NKJV
Comentary: Eph 4:11-16
4:11. And He Himself gave some to be apostles. The word apostle means “one sent forth with authority.” The apostles included the twelve men chosen by Christ to be His followers, as well as Paul (Eph 1:1) and Barnabas (Acts 14:14). There are no apostles today since the foundation of the church is complete (Eph 2:20). He also gave some to be prophets, who were spokesmen for God. He gave them direct revelation, which they passed on to the Church.
There are also no prophets today since the canon of Scripture is complete and they were part of the foundation of the Church.
Paul states that Christ also gave some to be evangelists. The gift of evangelism is the ability to share clearly and easily the good news message of Christ. All believers are to do the work of an evangelist (2 Tim 4:5), but not all believers have the gift of evangelism. See Acts 8:5-40 for Luke’s account of the preaching of Philip the evangelist (Acts 21:8), the only NT account of what an evangelist did.
He also gave some to be pastors and teachers. This is actually one gift, pastor–teacher. The person with this gift may be the shepherd and teacher in a local body. The idea of pastor emphasizes the role of feeding and protecting the flock.
Of these four gifts two were foundational gifts (apostles and prophets) and two are permanent gifts (evangelists and pastor-teachers).
Paul continues by showing the purpose of these spiritual gifts.
4:12. These gifts are given for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ. Believers are not ready to serve at the moment of the new birth. Babes in Christ need training. As believers are quipped, they are then able to do the work of the ministry.
As believers are equipped to do the ministry, the result is the edifying of the body of Christ. Believers are built up as other believers use their spiritual gifts.
4:13. Paul now points to the goal of using spiritual gifts. He states that believers are to use their gifts till we all come to the unity of the faith. Spiritual gifts should produce unity in what Christians believe. Spiritual gifts should also lead to the knowledge of the Son of God (2 Peter 3:18). All believers should continue to grow in fellowship with Christ. Spiritual gifts should result in a perfect man, that is a mature Church.
Spiritual gifts lead the Church to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ. We grow more and more like Christ. Paul ends with the results of this process.
4:14. Believers should no longer be children. Immature believers are those who are tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine. When a Christian is not maturing, he is going back and forth concerning his beliefs. We are not to be fooled by the trickery of men, false teachers who desire to lead believers away from the truths of the Word of God by cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting. The proper functioning of spiritual gifts in the Church should keep such deception from occurring.
4:15. In contrast to not knowing what they believe, Christians are to be speaking the truth in love (proper use of spiritual gifts) so that they may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ (cf. v 13).
4:16. Through Christ the whole body is joined and knit together by what every joint supplies. Paul uses the picture of the human body working together to show how believers in the Body of Christ are to use their gifts for mutual benefit (according to the effective working by which every part does it share). The result is the growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love. The body grows up and each believer is built up in love.
(from The Grace New Testament Commentary, Copyright © 2010 by Grace Evangelical Society. All rights reserved.)
Ephesians 2:20-22 (KJV)
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
1 Corinthians 3:8-15 (KJV)
8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
But then would it not have been referring to another coming of the perfect one?
Christ being an epithet of Jesus.
What would be the FULNESS OF CHRIST?
As also in John 1:16:
Sorry I don’t have time to discuss now, but will later.
Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Your question: 1. What was the foundation of the apostles? Eph.2:20
20 having been abuilt bon the foundation of the capostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being dthe chief cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into ea holy temple in the Lord, 22 fin whom you also are being built together for a gdwelling place of God in the Spirit.
The Church has been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets. The foundation is the support of the building. The chief cornerstone, the most important part of the foundation, is Jesus Christ Himself (1 Peter 2:6-7).
The apostles were men chosen by Christ to be sent forth with His authority. All of them had seen Him after He rose from the dead. There were the eleven, plus Matthias who took the place of Judas, the betrayer. Paul and Barnabas also were apostles. As far as is known, there were no others.
There clearly can be no apostles today since the apostles are part of the foundation of the building. They are not part of the superstructure.
The early church grew because of the apostles’ doctrine (Acts 2:42).
The second part of the foundation was the NT prophets. These were men and women who received direct revelation from God. That they too were part of the foundation shows that there are no prophets today.
Question 2. What was the foundation That Paul Laid? 1Cor.3:10 - 10 lAccording to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid mthe foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it.
1 Corinthians 3:10-11; 1 Corinthians 3:12-15
3:10-11. Because of God’s grace the apostle as a wise master builder was able to lay the (spiritual) foundation of the local church in Corinth. The term wise (sophos) is used of skilled craftsmen who built the tabernacle (Ex 35:10; 36:1,4,8). During his eighteen-month ministry in Corinth Paul, by the grace and empowerment of God, was skillfully working to craft the foundation of the local church planted in Corinth. Soon Paul’s time would end, and it would be an opportunity for another [who] builds on this foundation. But he warns to let each one take heed how he builds on it. Each person must take personal responsibility before God as His servant concerning how he ministers in the local church because no other foundation can be laid except that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
3:12-15. Paul is concerned with two types of construction on this foundation. Lasting construction is represented by the term’s gold, silver, precious stones. Impermanent construction is represented by the terms wood, hay, straw. The latter are not bad building materials. But they are not permanent.
While many see the issue as good versus bad works, it is more likely that Paul is discussing permanent versus impermanent works. Thus, time spent watching football, hunting, fishing, or golfing are not bad works, but they are also not works with eternal value (unless that is one’s job or a person is evangelizing or discipling during that time). Paul is urging the Corinthians to do what has eternal value [rewardable]. Of course, those are the things God has commanded believers to do.
Still using the analogy of a building and workers, Paul says each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it (cf. 2 Cor 5:10). At the Bema seat (the Day), fire will test each [believer’s] work. This testing will determine whether the work had eternal value or not.
If anyone’s work which he built on it endures [the fire], he will receive a reward for that work. If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire. While this future salvation is commonly understood as being granted kingdom entrance, it is possible that in this context Paul is thinking of being found spiritually healthy at the Bema. Compare 5:5 and comments there.
Paul and Apollos, the examples under consideration (vv 5,6,9,10), were both spiritual men who, if they continued on the same path, would be found healthy at the Bema Seat, though both would surely have some works that failed to pass the test of eternal value.
All believers will be evaluated at the Judgment Seat of Christ to decide their quality of life in the eternal kingdom (cf. Luke 19:11-27; Rom 14:10-12).
Question 3. What was the Rock that Jesus Christ was going to build His Church on? Matt.16:17-18.
17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, lfor flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but mMy Father who is in heaven. 18 And I also say to you that nyou are Peter, and oon this rock I will build My church, and pthe gates of Hades shall not 7prevail against it.
16:17. Jesus commends Peter for His confession, which stemmed not from human counsel but from divine disclosure (John 6:65). For this Peter was “blessed.” It was not unusual for rabbis to pronounce blessing on students who gave the correct answers. Here the blessing is a supreme one, for Peter had made a confession that is foundational to Jesus’ entire ministry in the lives of individuals and the church He would establish.
16:18. A significant aspect of Jesus’ program for the future centers on building His church , lit., “a called-out assembly”). The Church, He said, will be a victorious and indestructible community, even though “the gates of Hades” (i.e., the realm of death) would be arrayed against it. Suggested here are the two expected activities of the Church: building and battling. But in the end the Church will triumph (cf. Heb 2:14).
The Church is mentioned here for the first time in the NT. It was a mystery in the OT. It is now revealed as a significant future component of Christ’s program. However, even at this point it was largely a mystery. The Lord did not identify the Church as Jewish and Gentile believers who have equal membership as fellow heirs in one Body (1 Cor 12:12-13; Eph 2:11-3:7). At Pentecost the church would be born, a completely new entity (Acts 2:1-4). In Acts 2:47 this group is first called the Church.
The Church would be built on a rock, a secure foundation (Matt 16:18; cf. Luke 6:48). The rock on which Christ will build His Church has been variously interpreted as Peter, whose name means stone or rock, or his confession of Jesus as the Son of God, or Jesus Himself.
Jesus had two rocks in mind, as suggested by a play on two Greek words. “You are Peter (petros, stone, masculine), and on this rock (petra, feminine), I will build my church.” Peter is a stone, but Jesus is the Rock. Peter’s later writings reveal that he recognized the difference. Peter knew that Jesus was the Rock, the chief cornerstone, whereas he and the other apostles were merely stones in Church’s foundation (1 Peter 2:4-8; cf. 1 Cor 3:11; Eph 2:20).
Of course, it is true that the Church is built on the truth that Peter spoke regarding Jesus. But since Peter was exalting Jesus, the rock even in this sense is Jesus.
Question 4. What would be the FULLNESS OF CHRIST?
If the last cannon of scripture was the perfect one, then why does it say that “now we see through a glass darkly?” But then it says, “But then face to face we will know even as also we are known”? [found in 1Co 13:12] 12 For lnow we see in a mirror, dimly, but then mface to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.
1 Corinthians 13:11-12. The Corinthians are compared to children in that they spoke as a child, understood as a child, and thought as a child. Children preoccupy themselves with items of temporary worth. Similarly, the Corinthians preoccupied themselves with temporary gifts that will either be done away with by God Himself (such as prophecy and knowledge) or will pass away by themselves, such as tongues before God does away with prophecy and knowledge. So, when they become a man—when that which is perfect has come—the Corinthians will put away childish things. The gifts will no longer be needed when the Lord comes. Believers see in a mirror dimly now, but then at the Lord’s return, they will have face to face encounter with Him. The very best mirror, which in those days was made of metal and gave only a blurred and imperfect picture, will be nothing compared to a full encounter with the Lord face to face (1 John 2:28). Now the believer may know in part. However, he will someday stand in God’s presence and he shall know fully as God fully knows him. The believer, although limited by his finiteness, can know fully to the full extent his limited finiteness allows him to know.
(from The Grace New Testament Commentary, Copyright © 2010 by Grace Evangelical Society. All rights reserved.)
Question 5 What would be the FULLNESS OF CHRIST? I’m going to give you an example: When Jesus Christ picked the 12 disciples; they were not Spiritually Mature. The 12 lived with Him for 3 years as Jesus taught them daily. When the 3 years were completed, they were well on their way to spiritual maturity [this should be the goal for all born-again Christians in their post salvation life, if you dedicate your life to gaining spiritual maturity you could do it in 3 years minimum], without dedication it could take 10-20+ years.] They all but one, were then well on their way to spiritual maturity. It takes real dedication and a self-commitment to become Spiritually Mature and have the Fullness of Christ. It also means that as Romans 12:2 says, you’ll be renewing your mind to the point where you will then have the Mind of Christ. I taught a discipleship class monthly for three years. The info I gave the attendees was enough bible truth for them to be well on their way to spiritual maturity. I want to make something very clear, it is not I who taught them, it was the Holy Spirit, only the HS does the actual teaching when one is in Fellowship with the Holy Spirit, if you’re not in fellowship with the HS you’ll not learn a thing that would be rewardable in time and eternity. However, there is an “if” factor, if they studied daily what I taught them and doing so were in Fellowship with the HS, also called Abiding in Christ, and applied all they learned daily while in fellowship with Christ and the Holy Spirit, they could have achieved Spiritual Maturity [the fullness of Christ], or at least Spiritual Adulthood.
Do you know how to be in fellowship with the Holy Spirit and Christ?? If you don’t or are confused about it, read the following short book; it’s the most important bible doctrine you can learn: https://www.rbthieme.org/PDF/Rebound_and_Keep_Moving!.pdf
All for now. Mark