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Acts chapter 5 -Ananias & Sapphira- Punished by God on the spot- Why ??
I am new around here so I am not sure if this has been discussed before, but posting on another subject this came to my mind..I heard many sermons on the subject before and they were pretty contradictory.
What do you think ? Why in the time of grace were they punished on the spot?
Please add the scripture backing for your belief.I also want to do a bible study on this and I like to have all the scripture references.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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The short response is this. One misconception tossed around often today is that the OT is all about mercy and the NT is all about grace. Grace and mercy are seen in both Testaments. God is the same God in both. The grace that has been extended in the NT deals with the salvation of man beacuse the sacrifice has been made and a mystery revealed, but unsaved people are still lost in the NT and there is nothing that says God is not free to act any way He chooses regarding the lost after the death and resurrection of Christ. His promises are still true and He never breaks a promise, but there is no promise to the lost that He cannot do what is seen in Acts 5. There is nothing that says God cannot take a believer home if it is His will to do so. Grace does not mean that God has withdrawn and that He has somehow become inactive with His creation.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Permalink Reply by emanuela on
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Yes ,God is the same God in both OT and NT, I'm glad you said that because some views out there are that somehow the God of the OT was a God of Wrath and the God of the NT is a God of Mercy and GRACE.
Now I understand that only God can judge if a person is saved or not and we should never take upon ourselves such a judgement but for the sake of the discussion, when you said " but unsaved people are still lost in the NT and there is nothing that says God is not free to act any way He chooses regarding the lost after the death and resurrection of Christ:, and then you said "There is nothing that says God cannot take a believer home if it is His will to do so."
Which of these statements would you say apply to this case, and apart from God's obvious Sovereignty what is the lesson to be learned here? I feel there is also more to this story than just God's Sovereignty. It's a story about people that started with genuine good intentions that were shadowed by false pretenses of "showoff", a story about lies . We are to learn from everything in the Word of God and ask ourselves what is there to learn from this ??
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To respond to your new question I will give the short version:
They were not saved IMO, but simply religous and excited about the new movement. They lied to God and were judged. This is a reminder that even after the cross God takes sin seriously. It is no less grievous to Him now than in the OT. He still hates sin. Why He chose to take them out almost instantly only He can answer, but the lesson, to repeat myself, is to remind us as to how serious He takes sin and how mush He hates it today. With that in mind we can then understand the judgments found in Revelation. God is the same yesterday, today and forever.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Yes ....from the standpoint of Predestination they were probably not saved .Satan is the father of LIES. They lied .And ,Yes God Hates Sin. It does make you shudder though, that as you read this even though they lied you can't help feeling sorry for them. I know people that live in habitual lying . They can't give it up, nor are they trying too hard either...
They wanted to do a good thing , but selfishness still got in the way , even though they obviously had a giving heart, or so it seems .. It can also be a matter of Pride the desire for human praise , maybe even of competing with Joseph from the previous chapter, who did the same thing. But It might also have something to do with the fact that they might have taken a vow to dedicate to God the proceeds from that land. This in only an assumption not biblical text.
Also chapter 4: says that those that believed were all one heart and one soul , also that a "great grace "was over all of them. From the standpoint of free will ,some assume that they were believers that simply did not bear good fruit and God chose to make out of them an example of His Power, Sovereignty but also as a warning to the infant believers that sin is serious business. We know from Jesus's words that God Gives us time to bear fruit , but we should never count on that . Also to which much is given .. much is asked for.They were probably present at the miracle of Pentecost, they saw with their own eyes the tongs of fire, They saw God's power with their own eyes and yet chose to test His Goodness. What it is sure is that God was glorified as believers realized the seriousness of sin.
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Yes, we can make a lot of assumptions regarding this text. What we do now is that they lied to God and He caused their physical death.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Permalink Reply by Tammy on
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Amen LT. He is a righteous Judge. He's the same today as He was yesterday. He never changes.
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I enjoyed your comment, you put so beautifully into words the things that are going through my mind. God brought me closer to him through suffering, but I thank Him for that... I can give testimony that through God's Love and patience it is possible to leave behind sins that you might think are impossible to leave behind, I was really hurt by people, but God allowed that, so that I can feel Him by my side and the more I studied His word the more I loved Him.. I accepted Jesus initially because I loved the way He loved me, I loved His submissiveness, I could not wrap my head around the fact that the God Incarnate was spited upon and beaten and humiliated by dust... And He Let them Because of love.. I wanted to be like that.. I really did , and then one day I was given the opportunity to rise to that occasion, only that at first the flesh, proudly and arrogant said :
"How can somebody do this to me .. It 's unacceptable, I'm innocent, I did not harm anyone like this to deserve what's happening.. Why God? Why? And I murmured and I was upset with God for not Intervening and He left me like that, sick in body, sick in spirit, sick in my faith waiting for me to realize the privilege that I was given, until one day I said I can't.. It's more than I can bear then I stopped and paused and accepted my suffering as coming from God, I realized I can now see if I can behave like my Jesus, be quiet and go through it , take the insults , the humiliation, and the hatred and then one day I was also given the opportunity to forgive, it wasn't easy but I did it...and I would lie if I didn't say that I was proud of myself for being able to, but it was not my merrit it was because I was keeping my eyes on Him and following His example. That's why I hate sin, I don't want it in my life, I am ashamed to come before God asking for forgiveness in the name of the precious blood of my Savior, yet again for a sin I could have avoided ... it's enough for all the sins that I am not even aware of, by thoughts, words and all the good I could've done but didn't.
So our struggle is that from Romans 7-14-25. But for all of us struggling against the sin and not being indifferent to it the ending is a happy one. The spiritual , inward man that loves God's law WINS.
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Permalink Reply by Rita Cullimore on
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God gave the Apostles power to speak for Him when Christ told them what He was prophesying over them.
8 But you will receive npower owhen the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and pyou will be qmy witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and rSamaria, and sto the end of the earth.”
The Holy Bible : English Standard Version. Wheaton : Standard Bible Society, 2001, S. Ac 1:8God gave the power to them before He left.
Peter spoke a prophesy concerning them, and it came to pass. He was operating under God's power, given through the Holy Spirit.
Another thought to consider is that God sees from the beginning to the end. He saw that Ananias and Sapphira would never change from the position they were taking...one of lying to the Holy Spirit.
My question would be....was their death a punishment or were they just taken out from the brethren because of the lie?
Hope this helps you.
Blessings.....
Rita
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on
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Emanuela,
There are two reasons why I believe the two in this passage were not Christ-born believers and both reasons are found in the reading of the text.
First, verse 3 says, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit …”
It reminds me of Luke 22:1-6, which speaks of Satan entering Judas. I also am reminded of Luke 16:13.
I think Acts was written as a sequel to the Gospel of Luke.
At any rate, if Satan has filled a man’s heart, how could that man have the new heart mentioned in Ezekiel 36:26?
Satan fills hearts to lie, to betray, to do all sorts of things to God.
Second, there is a transition between the things happening up to the last verse in Acts 4 and before the first verse of Acts 5. In fact, in most English versions and translations, Acts 5:1 begins with the word “But” which is a transitional word and when it is used we know that what follows it is going to be very different from what precedes it.
Before the word “but” we learn what believers were doing and after it we learn what Ananias and his wife were doing.
As for the lie … you mentioned you know many people who lie. Do they lie to people or to God? There is a difference.
We learn something about Judas in John 12:4-6. Judas betrayed Jesus with a kiss.
What am I getting at?
Peter told Ananias that he had not lied to men but to God.
Believers can lie. Believers can sin. But can Satan fill a believer’s heart?
Did Ananias and his wife really love God? Though Judas kissed Jesus, did Judas really love Jesus?
We can try to lie to God but God is all knowing and all seeing. He knows the heart. He knows who really loves Him and who doesn't. We cannot fool God. This reminds me of the ones in Matthew 7. Also, Matthew 25:41-46.
Also, the rich young ruler. 21 Looking at him, Jesus felt a love for him and said to him, “One thing you lack: go and sell all you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” 22 But at these words [a]he was saddened, and he went away grieving, for he was one who owned much property. (Mark 10, NASB) -- But this man did not lie to Jesus. He just turned and walked away, very sadly.
Where was their hearts -- these two in Acts 5?
Where is my heart? Where is yours? It's a good question for any of us.
They had missed the love of God IMO.
That's my two cents.
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Well Amanda... LT summed it up really well.. we can make assumptions but in the end what we know for sure is that they lied and God caused their death.
Believers should not lie. Satan is the father of Lies, and God is the believer's father. Some people I know lie mostly to others, a few even dare to swear on God , while lying. They all think of themselves as christians. But it's like you said nobody fools God. God sees the intent in one's heart and there are exceptions , like Rahab who lied to save the lives of others, because she believed in the God of Israel. She had Faith .
The arguments you brought up make a good case that they were not Saved. But I also think the arguments from the other side make you think as well..
When you mentioned Satan filling Judas's heart, it made me remember Mathew 16 where Jesus tells Peter:
Mat 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
The same expression in also used in wilderness when Jesus was tempted by Satan.
Luke4 :8 " Get thee behind me, Satan"
Previously in the same chapter of Matthew 16 Jesus tells Peter that not flesh and blood gave him the revelation that He is the Messiah, but God the Father, along with the promise that on this rock He will build His Ecclesia ( the called out ones). So in this chapter we see that in one moment Peter is inspired by God and then in another moment the same Peter is influenced by Satan?! What do you make of that?
As far as Judas, he had remorse in the end, but hanged himself. But we know that Jesus referred to him as the "son of perdition " because the Scriptures had to be fulfilled.
I do believe that a believer's heart can be influenced by Satan , but ultimately we can fight it, James says
"Resist the devil, and he will flee from you."
I also believe we are our own worst enemy , not Satan.
Because you mention again the people from Matthew 7, I forgot to properly explain to you when we talked on your post why I concentrate more on what Jesus says it's their problem " the lawlessness" vs the Works they invoke. In my opinion" the works" ARE NOT THEIR WORKS. They have Faith because they know Jesus they call Him Lord, Lord.. but pay closer attention to the works they use as credentials
Prophesy, Casting out demons, and Great miracles, These may very well be all in fact God's WORKS WORKING through them especially in the case of "casting out demons" We know from Jesus's words that a kingdom cannot be divided against Itself when they accused Him of casting out demons, the casting out of demons is ONLY GOD'S WORK, It is God doing the casting out or the healing not the person per se.
Prophecy can be from God or the human heart, and Great Miracles can be be from God or Satan .
God can indeed use a "televangelist" to cast out demons at a conference But IT IS HIM NOT THE PERSON DOING THE WORK , I hear plenty testimonies of healings, and eliberations and yet if you look at the luxury or even the teaching of the person you can't help but wonder about them.
If you look at where else this same expression of " Depart from Me" appears you see that in this next group the condemned ones were definitely LACKING WORKS.
Matthew 25 :41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, In as much as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.I don't have the time to elaborate more right now but I hope you see my point.
God bless..
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Oh, yes, I see your point, Emanuela.
In my reply, I clearly said I was stating why I believe the two were not born again -- in other words stating my personal opinion based on the reading of the biblical text.
There is no doubt that we must have spiritual discernment in knowing what is of God, what is of man, and what is of Satan. Ungodly people are indeed very evil all on their own without any help from Satan.
You asked:
So in this chapter we see that in one moment Peter is inspired by God and then in another moment the same Peter is influenced by Satan?! What do you make of that?
IMO, Peter was not born again when this happened. Also, there is a big difference between a person's heart being influenced or tempted by Satan and Satan filling the heart. But, there again, that is my opinion. Jesus rebuked all of them once in Luke 9:55 for having the wrong spiritual influence.
You also have many opinions, Emanuela. There's nothing wrong with that. Opinions can change ... if someone remains teachable.
In my other discussion, I said the ones in Matthew 7 say they have works and I also say they might have them or might not but obviously they think they have them and they are even trying to convince Jesus that they have them and that He should know them probably because of their works.
In Matthew 25 the goats have failed to love people and in Matthew 7 the failure seems to be to love God. What is lawlessness according to your definition?
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. (Eph 2, NIV)
It says, For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
What are those works, Emanuela?
You said:
God can indeed use a "televangelist" to cast out demons at a conference But IT IS HIM NOT THE PERSON DOING THE WORK , I hear plenty testimonies of healings, and eliberations and yet if you look at the luxury or even the teaching of the person you can't help but wonder about them.
IMO, in the case of the born again who have spiritual gifts, it is always God working through the person and it is Jesus in them living out His life in and through them through the Holy Spirit. The Scripture also says "For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect--if that were possible" (Matthew 24:24, NIV).
So, we definitely need the gift of discernment when it comes to knowing what is of God, of man, and of Satan.
You say two different things. You say this: Prophesy, Casting out demons, and Great miracles, These may very well be all in fact God's WORKS WORKING through them especially in the case of "casting out demons
Then you say this: Prophecy can be from God or tjhe human heart, and Great Miracles can be be from God or Satan .
So, can false prophesy ever be from Satan? In your opinion?
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