All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
Abusive spouse
OK so we know that God hates divorce. But He also knows our weaknesses and so He allowed divorce in certain circumstances. There's been discussion on being unequally yoked and people seem to think it means not to marry an unbeliever but if already married they should remain together. Sometimes people point to 1 Corinthians 7, specifically:
If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
I was listening to Scripture this morning and heard something in this passage that caused me to stop the playback and take a closer look. Then in looking at the entire chapter, I realized some things that I really hadn't noticed before.
Now none of this means I feel people should run out and divorce. But neither should anyone subject themselves to abuse based on erroneous teaching. While all Scripture is useful, there are things to note.
1 Corinthians 71 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. 2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. 3 Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband. 4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife. 5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency. 6 But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.
OK let's stop here. Paul is allowed, or permitted, to say these things but God never commanded it of people. But there's good advice here. But he continues with the thought...
7 For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that. 8 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I. 9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn. 10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband: 11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.
People usually point out that this part is Paul's preference. That he was speaking of his thoughts on this and not God speaking. But we continue...
12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. 13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. 14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. 15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace. 16 For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?
So here we go...PAUL'S preference. And he specifically let us know that God did not say this. And he spoke only of the unbelieving spouse, not the abusive one. We can address slaves or servants in a similar context. As Paul continues, he mentions this.
20 Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called. 21 Art thou called being a servant? care not for it: but if thou mayest be made free, use it rather.
Again, we are quick to point out that God never condoned slavery. Why think He condoned abuse simply because Paul was speaking his own feelings on all of this. Then we get to...
28 But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.
Paul still speaking his thoughts, not God's, states marriage isn't a sin. And he was never claiming any of this chapter to be a sin because God did not command it.
So telling people they sin if they divorce an abuser is NOT what God has said.
And I speak this...not God. ;-)
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on
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All of us have personal responsibility for our own thoughts, feelings, and actions. Even secular counselors will ask married couples to look at how each one is contributing to the problem and what each one could do to help resolve the issues. It is a proven fact that the thing women want most is love, and a proven fact that the thing men want most is respect. This is why Christ gave men the commandments to love their wives as Christ loved the Church, and for women to submit to their husbands. This produces a perpetual cycle of love and respect that grows a healthy relationship in a marriage. This is also standard beliefs and practices in the world of psychology that is accepted outside of Christianity as well. To better understand submission, read here- http://www.gotquestions.org/wives-submit.html
Even in cases where physical safety is a priority and the wife and children seek shelter at a crisis center, counselors there leave it up to the woman to make her own decisions. Most don't want the relationship to end but just want the abuse to stop. They help her see her options and see her choices but respect that the decision is hers alone to make. For a believer, a starting point could be by honoring God's commands to love and respect one's spouse even if one's spouse isn't showing one the same love and respect. The marriage covenant is sacred and if one's spouse has no intentions of walking away from the marriage, no stone should be left unturned to find healing for the relationship. One must ask themselves just how committed they are to their own marriage. Generally, those who leave an abusive relationship fall right into the same type of relationship with a new partner. God has the power to transform a marriage when people turn to Christ in repentance and let Him be the center of it and seek His will for their marriage. His will isn't divorce. I wonder though who if anyone is really making Christ most important? It seems self for everyone is always one's central focus. -
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Permalink Reply by Seek on
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A couple other points to make are that Proverbs says not to share a house with a contentious spouse.
And the subject of divorce was never a commandment. God hates divorce. But He hates that people marry over sexual reasons too. He wants us to choose wisely.
Jesus said we're not under the law anymore and summed up the commandments in 2 parts. The second part would fall into this area. Love your neighbor, or love one another. So one would love their spouse, which is not to want to harm them but is one loving a spouse whom they allow to continue doing that which is illegal and immoral? Staying with an abusive spouse is not only permitting the abuse but is actually condoning it. And if children are involved it's even more problematic.
As I said, I'm not suggesting one run out and divorce because your spouse yelled at you. But if their behavior is harmful to your health or is creating a rift between you and God, you need to pray and seriously give thought to the wiser course of action and not simply accept a church's point of view. Seriously consider what God would think. He hates divorce and would have preferred you chose more wisely or preferred your spouse acted more Godly but He also never intended for us to harm one another either.
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Permalink Reply by JB on
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This being a very controversial subject I probably will not be talking much about it. Just a couple of things concerning the scriptures used in Matthew 19:6 (KJV)
6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.I think most of us will overlook portions of the verse that says, “What therefore God hath joined together” All marriages are not ordained of God, as Seek pointed out. This is one of the problems we will encounter when we have the concept of God that He micromanages our lives, in other words, everything that happens to us, God allows it, or caused it to bring about His will. He will and can use anything that happens to us to bring glory to His name, or His will; that is to turn it around for His glory. So from that perspective we will say things like, why did God allow that to happen to me? Or we will suffer hardship thinking that, it must be God’s will, or it wouldn’t have happened. Charles Stanly said one time, “every time he gets down or gets sick, he will just lay back and say okay Lord what are you trying to tell me?” I don’t see it that way, because people will get sick from things they eat, or do, but it wasn’t God that did it. They married for various reasons, but does not mean that God put that marriage together. People has a free will do eat or not to eat, but according to Ro.14, we don’t judge them.
We are all going to sin in some way or another, but the Word tells me that He is not imputing our trespasses against us. So He is not categorizing sin, if we break one of the Ten, we are guilty of them all. This is also where some will think there are contradictions in the Word, they will read this verse and then turn to Rom.14, that says there is nothing unclean of itself, but if we esteem anything to be unclean, then to him it is unclean…The whole of Rom.14, I believe will help us understand this better. So I am not going to judge anyone on this: that will be the work of the Holy Spirit to lead us into all truth, not my intellectual understanding of it. That is why I said that religion will surely show up sooner or later.
JB
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Amen. It is definitely controversial. I know God hates divorce. I know it wasn't His design or desire. But in knowing this, I also know we were never commanded this and if not commanded then God didn't command it for a reason. However laws were given to show us just how sinful we are. And yet do we follow the law to a tee? "The letter of the law kills. But Jesus's burden is light and His yoke is easy. Do we follow the law that brings death or walk in newness of Spirit? Trying to keep every law will only bind up a person inside, warring inwardly over their every action or inaction.
We're not to think that it is ok to sin, but we do...we will. We can't escape it. We can "choose" to remain in an an abusive situation and struggling with this every day or we can choose to do that which would be a wiser course of action. And wisdom doesn't say that we stand and allow one abusing us to continue to do so. We don't allow one (strongman) to rob us, but stand against it and protect ourselves. Or we stand our ground on the letter of the law...even though we don't follow the entire law. We say sacrifice was done away with, that tithing is old covenant. We pick and choose which laws to follow. Well if we're going to follow law, let us follow all of them regardless of wisdom.
Leviticus 19:27 Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.
23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings.
6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the Lord: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.
This is only a sampling. Yet I know of no one who follow these.
What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest income from your herb gardens, but you ignore the more important aspects of the law--justice, mercy, and faith. You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things.
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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There are differences between God's eternal law, ceremonial law and Israel's national law. Two are not related to the child of God bought by the blood of Jesus and born of the Spirit. God's eternal law will always stand, and yet we understand that the punishment due us has been taken from us and placed on Jesus who paid our debt thereby redeeming us.
It is true that we are saved by grace and this great salvation is maintained by grace, but once we are saved we are still called to holiness. There is a right way to live and a right reason to live that way. We desire to obey God, seek after holiness because we love Him and agree with Him as to how detestable sin is in the sight of holiness. We have no right to pick and choose. We have no right to seek to rationalize why something is OK. It is incumbent on us to seek out what God really means regarding an issue.
The Word of God states clearly that "God hates divorce." There are no qualifiers in that statement and thus we must understand He hates ALL DIVORCE. We recognize that God has made provisions for divorce, but that does not change the fact that He hates divorce. The next problem that always arises from divorce is remarriage when is a separate issue altogether, but I will not go there today.
What is the right answer to your specific question? The answer must be sought setting emotions aside seeking where God stands on the issue, but you will find most people operate from emotions.
Regarding your last paragraph, Jesus was speaking to the religious leaders of the day prior to His death and resurrection. The ceremonial, national and eternal laws of God still applied to them. That is not the case for us today.
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What I'm pointing out in the last paragraph is that the law, regardless of which, if it is to be followed to the letter, while setting aside justice, mercy and faith, can become a burden, when Jesus said His burdens are light. He knows what we go through. He knows we make wrong decisions. One would hope that once we turn to Christ, that future choices would be made more wisely and in prayer and the Word. He hates divorce. But He also hates evil. An abuser is acting out of evil. And this is an area where wisdom should come in.
Churches have placed such a stigma on anyone divorced for years that people believe they must remain in an abusive marriage or forever be forced to live a life apart while still legally tied to one who would continually abuse them. And while God does hate divorce, I also know these types of situations were never His intention or desire either. So we have to weigh the Scriptures. Is God going to mark off a strike on your record if you leave for safety or does He see us through Christ and not store up our transgressions? We want to please God. But is it really pleasing Him when instead if being a light to unbelievers, we're leading them to believe that once saved were to be a punching bag? Won't they believe God to be cruel?
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First of all I would say that it is not a salvation issue. The strike, you mention, is not being weighed (if at all) as a salvation strike. Yet, in life there are consequences for our actions, both goo and bad.
We cannot help what the outside world is going to think about Jesus or the Father. What we are responsible for is whether or not we are seeking to live in alignment with Him and His Word.
Now we can ask some unpopular questions.
What does the totality of the Word say on divorce? Does it give specific guidelines regarding divorce and eventually remarriage? Does an abusive spouse qualify in Scripture as grounds for divorce (talking divorce and not including separation here)? Did Jesus overlook this or was there no spousal abuse back then? To the last question the answer has to be no in both cases.
Thus, can a person separate from there spouse for safety reasons. Does this allow them to divorce them? If allowed to divorce is this grounds for remarriage. Remove any emotions or preconceived ideas ... what light does Scripture shed on this?
I do not see this as grounds for divorce, though would advocate separation. The Scripture that says about your unbelieving spouse wanting you to stay is applicable here as abuse signifies just the opposite. You do not abuse something that you want. Thus they would be free to separate. I do not see this as grounds for remarriage as I believe Scripture is very strict on this (and very unpopular today). I will not perform a service that includes remarriage unless adultery on the part of the other spouse has occurred (and this can come even in the form of that person having remarried).
Lord Bless,
LT
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Adultery then poses questions. You can know they have committed it yet you don't have some photographic evidence, or they weren't caught in the act. Jesus did make a distinction too in saying if you lust you've committed it in your heart. But we can't always know what the other is thinking. So say you have a spouse who neglects you in favor of spending more time with another though they haven't gone as far as to sleep with them, or at least you're not sure of it. Or one who spends their time viewing pornography instead of the time with their spouse.
Even you said that you wouldn't perform a remarriage without adultery and that includes if the other remarries. But what if they just live together? What if they claim nothing is happening that they just needed a place to stay? They haven't married that person but are dishonestly claiming nothing is going on and expect the spouse to remain single while they enjoy the perks of the second income and help within the home.
Which all of this goes even further than the remarriage issue. Why do we choose to uphold only certain of God's commands? We uphold they don't divorce yet don't uphold the command to love one another in that we know that person may now need assistance that the church won't provide. They're trying to deal with children and finances possibly, because another did wrong and put them in danger and now the church does wrong in knowing the hardship and struggle but does nothing to help. It's a vicious cycle isn't it?
I try to view the totality of the Word period and not just on divorce. That we should be merciful as God is merciful. Extend love as God loved us. And we fail in that when we try to uphold aspects of God's commands while disregarding His character in the form of Christ. We say you must not divorce even if you know the person is an adulterer because you can't prove it. Go ahead and protect yourself but do not divorce and know that if you need help in this time of need that you can always call on someone else cause I'm not gonna help you.
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Adultery then poses questions. You can know they have committed it yet you don't have some photographic evidence, or they weren't caught in the act.
Highly unlikely they are going to play this out as incognito, but if in doubt you pause for the time being. Caution is better than rash decisions.
Jesus did make a distinction too in saying if you lust you've committed it in your heart.
First it is obvious that Jesus is talking illustratively as we see in the next verse that if our hand causes us to sin we are to cut it off. He does not literally mean to chop off the hand. The sin we commit in the flesh finds its origin in the mind. One does not have sex without first accenting to this mentally. Jesus went on in that passage to acknowledge that the cause for divorce is marital unfaithfulness. Here He is speaking direct and not using illustration. This distinction is physical and not just illustrative. Divorce is an actual event and the qualifier is adultery.
Even you said that you wouldn't perform a remarriage without adultery and that includes if the other remarries.
Either I misstated, or misunderstand your comment or you misunderstood me. If a person divorces their spouse and remarry when the spouse being divorced is not guilty of adultery they then by remarrying are guilty of adultery … not popular today, but without attempting to rationalize and inject emotions we cannot escape that conclusion from Scripture.
But what if they just live together? What if they claim nothing is happening that they just needed a place to stay?
Let me understand what you are saying. You are saying a person leaves their spouse and moves in with another person of the opposite sex and they proclaim, after the one left their spouse, that they are living together and nothing is happening … Hmmm, yeah, right, hmmm, I don’t think that passes the smell test.
Which all of this goes even further than the remarriage issue. Why do we choose to uphold only certain of God's commands? We uphold they don't divorce yet don't uphold the command to love one another in that we know that person may now need assistance that the church won't provide.Ok, Shame on the church that will not help the one who is part of their fold. This does not change the command, but only illustrates a failure on the part of some unnamed church. Pointing out a failure to do what is right does not make that which is wrong now right.
They're trying to deal with children and finances possibly, because another did wrong and put them in danger and now the church does wrong in knowing the hardship and struggle but does nothing to help. It's a vicious cycle isn't it?
Not a cycle, but a sin. The church must step up and act like the church, bride of Christ.
I try to view the totality of the Word period and not just on divorce. That we should be merciful as God is merciful.God is merciful and sinners are still destined to hell. What about His mercy leads us to assume He overlooks sin or ignores His own directives?
Extend love as God loved us. And we fail in that when we try to uphold aspects of God's commands while disregarding His character in the form of Christ.
Expected failure is not an excuse for failure. God calls us to holiness, that is His call to us and that is not overshadowed by our failure.
We say you must not divorce even if you know the person is an adulterer because you can't prove it.
Who says that and if by proof, what proof are we talking about?
Go ahead and protect yourself but do not divorce and know that if you need help in this time of need that you can always call on someone else cause I'm not gonna help you.
Again, pointing out the failure of the church does not absolve the individual of acting in alignment with God’s Word.
This is not a popular teaching, but we are not called to win popularity votes. I know some who shy away from this because many would leave their church … really? If it is truth it must be shared whether well received or not. If one has already failed at this there is forgiveness available and if one is pondering this they need to know what the Word has to say on the issue.
Lord Bless,
LT
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First it is obvious that Jesus is talking illustratively as we see in the next verse that if our hand causes us to sin we are to cut it off.
I was using this to cover pornography. Some would consider it the same as adultery as they've given themselves over to it and have emotionally left their spouse...they've committed adultery in their heart. Others would say adultery is only the act of physically sleeping with the person and only if proven.
Either I misstated, or misunderstand your comment or you misunderstood me.
I believe you were saying you wouldn't perform a wedding unless the person's ex had already remarried? This is why I brought up living together. The ex didn't remarry, but by your other statements I'm pretty sure you would consider it to amount to the same thing as if they had and you would perform the wedding.
But we did get off opposite after that where you said "a person leaves their spouse and moves in with another person". What I was referring to was a person leaves an abuser and it's the abuser who refuses to remarry to maintain some type of control. They move in with someone and claim it's to share rent. You know it's a lie but have no proof. And since sometimes people actually do take on a roommate for rent purposes only, we also couldn't jump to that conclusion. Only one who knows them intimately would possibly know if they were lying. And because of this....it actually could pass the smell test to some people because they adhere to a rigidity without using wisdom. Believe me, I could introduce you to people who don't even believe you should leave for safety but that you need to pray about it and treat the abuser like royalty...afterall, they work hard or you must've done something wrong or (insert lame excuse here).
But this is the gist of bringing this up. One would say this is where we draw the line and another says no this is. Yet the ones doing all the saying haven't logged in the number of hours of beatings as the one we would tell if you divorce you're sinning against God, or separate but don't divorce regardless of the cost even if you know the truth.
It's just my opinion of course but do we feel we should condemn a person when we have no idea of what they're living through or should we perhaps pray with them, ask God to provide wisdom in which way to turn, offer to help the best way we can? It all goes back to my telling this person that I feel the church has done a lot of harm. We say "don't", but we never say ok, here's what you CAN do. We don't have understanding or compassion.
It's why I've said we have to weigh all of it. No we don't want to disobey. But we also know we are hurting and we've prayed and prayed but it's gotten worse. Perhaps the last time it was the "I fell down the stairs and broke my leg" routine. Next time it might be a neck rather than a leg.
OK before anyone thinks I'm using extremes, well I am. But these extremes are real. I honestly even once knew of a man who was being abused by his wife, if you can believe it.
Pointing out a failure to do what is right does not make that which is wrong now right.
No it doesn't. But it still forgets that Jesus tempered everything with mercy. The woman caught in adultery...we know He said He didn't condemn her and to stop sinning. So if she goes away and commits another sin without expecting to but the old sin nature flared up, do we believe Jesus will condemn her this time? He knows it's a struggle on a person's heart when they're trying to obey His commands yet don't fully understand all the commands or even understand how to accomplish it. All they can do is pray for strength and wisdom. All the church SHOULD do is be understanding and offer support, emotionally, physically etc.
What about His mercy leads us to assume He overlooks sin or ignores His own directives?
He doesn't overlook it. It's actually why He allowed Himself to be tortured and killed. He already knew we were sinful. As Paul said, it doesn't mean we keep sinning so grace will abound, while in about the same breath he admits he doesn't do the good he should but the evil he doesn't want to do. We're not supposed to try and sin, but sometimes we just don't know how to cope in a situation and all we hear is harsh God. The one saying you messed up again.
He's not giving us a license to sin but sin is here regardless. Sometimes were not strong enough to withstand it. Peter is such a good example. He truly loved Jesus and meant it when he said he'd die for Him. But fear gripped him. And completely having forgotten that Jesus said he would deny Him three times, he began denying. He didn't mean to, certainly didn't plan to. Yet Christ knew he would and loved him in spite of it.
If one has already failed at this there is forgiveness available and if one is pondering this they need to know what the Word has to say on the issue.
Yes. But my stance is they need to know what ALL the Word has to say and leave judgment at the doorway. We know God hates divorce and He allowed for adultery. But we also know He knows our weakness and doesn't condemn us if we are truly doing all we know we can do and just can't make it. As I said at the start. It's not something to take lightly and requires a lot of soul searching. But if people can leave the preconceived ideas of harsh judgment behind and view the situation through a fresh set of eyes, they might find leaving is the only wise choice.
What I'm saying I'm sure is no more popular either. But we're never going to come to an exact same concensus on everything in the Word. Even the best of scholars have differences of opinion on certain Scriptures. My point wasn't to state divorce is ok. But that it may be necessary in serious cases that we can only hear about yet never have experienced. And we should try to be more understanding of that and more supportive of someone in such a predicament. But instead, I've heard so many times where someone said they used to be physically abused and beaten but stayed because they were taught that you can't divorce.
For some reason I just can't wrap my mind around a God who loved us so much to willingly die for us and in such a horrible manner, when we didn't even care if we were sinning, and a God who sees a marriage that is not as He intended it to be still strictly holding it against us if we seek an escape from such a situation we don't feel we can endure any longer. Justice tempered with mercy. -
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Oh man. All I can say on this is Yikes! Was just doing some searching of various applications of Scripture on this. And this goes to what I was saying about how there's always some Scripture people will have different opinions on. But I must say this is the ONLY time I've seen this take on Scripture from one site I came across. After you read this snippet I have a comment on it.
Part III: If a Person Has an Unscriptural Remarriage, What Must He Do to Become a Christian? Some people believe that, if a person has divorced (not for fornication) and remarried, when he becomes a Christian, he may remain with his present companion. What does the Bible say?
I. The Bible Teaching Requires Such a Person to Leave His/Her Unscriptural Companion.
This is true regardless of whether the relationship was entered before or after baptism.
A. God Continues to Hold Such People Obligated to Honor the Commitment of Their Previous Marriage Covenant. It Follows that Every Sexual Union in the Present Marriage Is Adultery.
It follows that the only way such a person can be a faithful Christian is to give up the husband-wife relationship, including sexual relations, with their present companion.
The marriage covenant commits a person to his/her companion for life. Anytime our companion is alive, if we have a marriage relationship (including the sexual union) with someone else, we are guilty of adultery (even if we are remarried according to civil law). Note that the first marriage commitment continues as long as the first companion is alive, not just until baptism.
1 Corinthians 7:10,11,2-5 - A person should not divorce his/her companion. But what should one do if he is already divorced? Only two choices are available - remain unmarried or else be reconciled to our true companion.
What if we have already remarried - does that change the teaching? No, we still have only two choices if we are divorced, making no exception for the case in which one has remarried. If we can be reconciled with our lawful companion, fine. If not, we must remain unmarried. To stay with our unlawful companion would be fornication as shown in v2-5.
B. To Be Forgiven of Sin, a Person Must Repent. Then They Must Bring Forth Fruits of Repentance.
God is willing to forgive those who have unscripturally divorced and remarried. However, they must meet conditions of forgiveness, just as do others who are committing sin.
Repentance is a prerequisite for forgiveness of sins whether one is in or out of the church.
Matthew 21:28-32 - Repentance involves changing our minds and deciding to do God's will.
This is true regardless of what our sin may be. We must decide to quit stealing, lying, killing, etc. If we have been committing adultery in the form of an unscriptural marriage relationship, we must decide to quit the relationship, including quitting the sexual union.
Repentance requires us to follow through and change our sinful conduct.
OK I just can't go on. There's a lot more. But you get the idea. What I'm hearing from this teaching is that despite loving others, we must hurt our current spouse. And as this may be their first marriage, you must now unilaterally force them to remain unmarried. Putting everything else aside, kids included, I'd love to know how they come to this conclusion. Yikes. -
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