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Calvanism. How do I tell if a Christian church is teaching Calvanism? and should I not attend it? What is the biggest problem with Calvanism?
I have alot of questions and would just like my friends here to inform me more about "Calvanism". I had a few of my friends at church tell me to not try to attend this church or that church because they "push calvanism". Please tell me more about Calvanism? I dont want to learn anything against the Word of God.
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Permalink Reply by Bob F on
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You might consider going to the source. Read Calvin's Institutes and compare what you find in its own context with what the Bible texts say in their own context. Then you can make a truly informed decision. Calvin's Institutes are readily available in many theological libraries. I think the complete title is Institutes of the Christian Church. Many of Calvin's writings are likely available on line. He died long before copyright laws were invented and his works are still studied in many schools.
John Calvin was a fully committed Christian who tried to accurately teach what the Scriptures say to people in his culture several centuries ago. His writings are well worth reading, especially when you consider the context. We can all learn a lot from such men, whether or not we agree with everything they said or wrote. I usually learn something quite valuable from just about everyone who genuinely seeks to follow Jesus in keeping with the Scriptures. Have a wonderful day. Blessings to all.
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Permalink Reply by melissa on
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http://www.gotquestions.org/Calvinism-vs-Arminianism.html
http://www.gotquestions.org/calvinism.html
Those are two articles that might help you understand. After studying this topic, I am a 4-point Calvinist. There are 5 points, but I don't see Limited atonement as completely correct. I have attended a church where the pastor was a 5-point Calvinist. I really enjoyed the church and I learned a ton while I attended there. I moved and had to find a new church in another state.
Just my thoughts. Please let me know if you have questions.
melissa
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Permalink Reply by AAG Netguy on
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Paige, I would consider myself a 5-point Calvinist because I came to that conclusion after considering the whole of Scripture. I didn't say, "Oh, I think I'll be a Calvinist" and then go find out what Calvinists believe. Even though I think that theological position is most accurate I am not going to argue with or break fellowship with another believer who thinks differently. In other words, I'm not going to die for it. I havea feeling that when we get to heaven God is going to show us how wrong we all were about a lot of issues we were so certain of here. I really like what Scribe wrote above. There are weaknesses in every theological position.
There are a lot of things in the Bible that I don't pretend to understand; the Trinity, the sovereignty of God vs. the responsibility of man, being just two examples. These, in our fallen human wisdom, remain irreconcilable and thus, paradoxical; two things that can't possible be true and yet are, because that is what the Bible teaches and upholds both.
The Bible is very clear on the topic of election and predestination and yet at the same time it tells us that we have real choices to make and God is going to hold us accountable for those choices. We serve a mysterious, wonderous God.
I wonder if some of our concerns about election and predestination could be solved in the fact that God inhabits both time and eternity, while we humans on earth only live within the constraints of time (time is something God created and he exists outside of it). What we know as past, present and future are all happening at the same "time" for God and he can "fast forward" or "rewind" history and the future at will (to put it in limited human terms). That is why he calls himself "I AM". Everything is in present tense to him.
How do I live out my Calvinism? "Pray like everything depends on God... Work like everything depends on you."
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Permalink Reply by Paige Robertson on
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Hello Wendy!
Thanks for the wisdom on Calvanism!!! I respect you and what you believe. U r incredible.
However, Im still confused, sorry. Between what you and Jasgang are explaining. I dont mean to cause any problems, I guess I am just not understanding correctly. Sorry, Im slow.
This whole clavanism has really thrown me for a loop in the fact that I thought the bible is the word of God and it pretty much ends there. When I became a Christian, I was soo on fire for the Lord, and that I had someone who saved me "out of a slimy pit", the "mirey clay, that was all powerful,all knowing,a wonderful counselor, guide, and most of all someone that unconditionally loves me. I dont understand where all this other stuff came from. I wish that we all just kept it simple. I think for baby christians its very difficult on them to understand or get involved in all these other views, and opinions. Im not really a baby christian anymore, and I believe Im in the "meat" stage instead of the "milk" stage and I love to hear anything that would benefit my walk with the Lord. I dont want to be misled or get caught up in anything that really upsets the Lord and defies him, but sometimes Im saddened that there is all this other "stuff" out there. I never heard of Calvanism and was concerned, but Im left dazed and confused which takes the joy out of my walk with God, and the freedom He has given me. I want to know the truth,and do what pleases God so thats why I am craving more guidance, but sometimes Im grieved that it can get soo complicated at times. At least for me.
Who is John Calvin anyway and why was he soo reknown?
Paige
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Permalink Reply by Stew on
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Dear Paige,
I always enjoy reading your passages. You have such excitement and joy in your voice. The spirit really appears to be working in your life. And that is how it should be. As we seek greater understanding it's so very important that we don't drift into legalism. You referenced "all this other stuff"... I had to chuckle just a bit because I often find myself sorting through "other stuff" as well. I encourage you to take a listen to the two segments that I put on my page that relate to legalism - (it was a single file I had to break into two part to fit via an "upload"). This is a teaching segment by Pastor Brian Brodersen (you can look him up and grab other teachings that he has made available for free from his website). I have found this particular teaching (from Romans) to address this very topic of "other stuff". It is so very important to stay in The Spirit and yet, the draw into legalism is always there. We just need to be able to distinguish legalism from the truth that The Spirit provides. That is pleasing to the Holy Father and our Lord Jesus Christ.
God bless you Paige. -Stew
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Permalink Reply by Dean Clark on
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Paige,
I attended a church that was anti-Calvinism when I was saved, meaning that they believe ANYONE can accept Jesus at anytime and if they don't then it is their fault 100%. What this looked like in the service is that there was a huge push EVERY week for people to come to Christ and the teaching was very light-weight. My church now is more Calvinism based and we still share the Gospel every week, but a Calvinist trusts that Christ is working in soneone's heart and until God softens that heart and does a miracle work there, then that person is unable to accept Christ's free gift of salvation.
The example I love is Lazarus, he died and was in the tomb four days. He was starting to decay and stunk. The only thing his sisters and the mourners could do was weep and wail. However, someone called for Jesus...the only other thing they could do. Jesus had the power to speak into the tomb and make a dead thing alive again. I believe this is a picture of our hearts before Christ...they are dead, stink and are hopeless. I believe Christ needs to speak into the tomb of our hearts and make a dead heart alive again. THEN we can accept Christ as our savior because God through Christ is at work there.
This has been a great help to me because I have many unsaved friends and family. I am a salesman by trade and used to beat myself up for not sharing with anyone and everyone (because all they had to do was accept Christ TODAY and be saved). I now believe God gives us the PRIVILEGE of being a PART of the PROCESS. We are not the process, God is! Just like the mourners outside the tomb of Lazarus had nothing to do with his coming back to life, however they got to witness a huge miracle. The person who called for Jesus at Lazarus' tomb had the biggest blessing of all. That is our job, be faithful to share, call on Jesus in prayer and thank HIM for the answered prayer. God does not need salesmen, he needs obedient, prayerful, lovers of the word and lovers of HIS people.
God bless you,
Dean Clark
www.MissionPossibleCards.com
Dean@AllAboutGod.com
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Dean, I think your explanation is just tremendous! What I like about it is that it is so heartfelt and practical. Our beliefs DO have consequences! Believing everything depends on us leads to compulsion, insecurity and makes us pushy. Who wants to hand around with that kind of person. Thank you for this great explanation!
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Paige,
Your confusion is understandable. I'll try to explain it.
You are correct, the whole Bible is the Word of God. And, as you know, there is a vast amount of information in the Bible. Because people are made in God's image, they have a tendency to want to bring order to things and this is the reason we have things like science, computers, encyclopedias and dictionaries: to categorize and bring "order" to lots of information.
There is a branch of theology (theology means "the study of God") called systematic theology. Systematic theology attempts to take everything in the Bible and to put it into categories or topics like an encyclopedia. Under any given topic, systematic theology takes everything the Bible teaches about that topic and then compares it and reconciles it in order to make summary statements that end up being called "doctrines" (e.g. doctrine of the Trinity, doctrine of the church, doctrine of salvation, etc.)
Calvinism, Arminianism and many of the other "isms" within Christianity are attempts by people to systemetize theology and everything the Word of God teaches about how a person is saved by looking at everything the Bible teaches on the subject. There is nothing inherently wrong or evil in such studies, the evil comes when we form divisions among ourselves, argue over words, don't love each other, and insist that our view is right and everyone else is wrong.
On one hand, faith in Christ is very simple. We have to be like children to enter the Kingdom of God. On the other hand, the Bible is a very complex book and it is incredibly deep (yet another paradox). You can study it your entire life and never exhaust its resources. You are right to want to get into the "meat" and that is part of the maturing process.
Your desire to keep things simple is understandable. In the same way, perhaps I would want to go back to being an infant, because it was much easier for me and growing up is bewildering and confusing. They say ignorance is bliss, but I don't think God wants us to remain ignorant of His Word and of theological ideas out there. He wants all of us to grow.
Hold on to all the things that brought you to the Lord in the first place. Yes, you will be confused and bewildered for a while, but that is not necessarily a bad thing. Use the confusion to dig deeper in God's word and in seeking Him. You will come out a stronger believer on the other side.
I leave it up to someone else to tell you about who John Calvin was or you can look him up on Wikipedia; there is a pretty good, balanced biography of him there.
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Permalink Reply by ScribeD on
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Greg (and all), I really enjoyed reading this explanation. The one thing I would add is just that although I agree that we should live out a quest to understand, and we can have areas where we become confident - there should, in my opinion, always be a degree of humility with regards to understanding of faith and theology.
Jesus opposed proudly arrogant people who were confident that they had all the answers, and I believe he would oppose many in the church today who are critically confident in their answers.
No matter how strong we become in faith and theology - humility is always in order. It's a quality that many "correct" theologians lack. And I am confident of the fact that arrogance offends Christ.
So no matter how confident we become, we still can never fully "know" all the answers, or become the ultimate arbiter of truth. "let anyone who thinks he stands, take heed lest he fall".
Blessings!
Scribe
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Permalink Reply by Jasgang on
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Well, I believe all of you are Calvinist and that you can find literature and/or schools that confirm all the things you say. Mary was the mother of Jesus and a great many schools and/or much literature and "churches" today promote the worship of Mary. Our schools have thrown God out, promoting safe sex, homosexuality, destroying God's makeup of the family, and the list could go on. Man made institutions and written material are not the foundation for truth. According to "calvinism," and other "isms," but especially calvinism, we really don't need anything, not even the Bible, because we have or cannot control or do anything that we want to do or not do. The "osas" crowd believes that after you get "saved" (and to me saved is what will happen at the end of this journey called life), you have less freedom and/or liberty to make or choose anything, way, path, etc.. What took place after Calvary was that Jesus open the door to those who were and are in bondage to sin. By grace THROUGH FAITH in Christ, the Holy Spirit gives freedom, as he leads toward the will and ways of God. What most of all the man-made doctrines do is say that the work of the Cross was null and void because it doesn't change anything.
I will probably not correspond any further because it seems as though we are firm in what we believe. I am somebody because God predestined not only me, but all to be somebody in Christ as we yield to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. You are among God's createst work, you are made in His image. You live and breath, make choices, have feeling, but with those liberties and freedoms, you also have responsiblities and accountabilities. It is just easier for us to put all the blame on God or someone else if things go wrong. But the day will come when every knee will bow and every tongue cofess Jesus is Lord to the glory of God. Joshua 24:15 said, "CHOOSE YOU this day, whom you will serve, as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord."
Good luck on your journey.
In the Lord
Bro. James
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