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Once saved always saved?
Many believe that once you are saved you are always saved and that you cannot lose your salvation or be rejected by God.
What is the scriptural basis for “Once saved always saved”? Does not the responsibility lie with the believer how he/she conduct themselves after initially being saved?
I see many scriptures that say/imply other than once saved always saved:
Old Testament:
Num 14:11 Then the LORD said to Moses: "How long will these people reject Me? And how long will they not believe Me, with all the signs which I have performed among them?
Num 14:12 I will strike them with the pestilence and disinherit them..."
1Sa 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, And stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because you have rejected the word of the LORD, He also has rejected you from being king."
1Sa 28:6 And when Saul inquired of the LORD, the LORD did not answer him, either by dreams or by Urim or by the prophets.
1Sa 28:7 Then Saul said to his servants, "Find me a woman who is a medium, that I may go to her and inquire of her…"
Pro 2:13 …From those who leave the paths of uprightness To walk in the ways of darkness…
New Testament:
Joh 17:12 …Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition…
Act 8:9 But there was a certain man called Simon, who previously practiced sorcery…
Act 8:13 …Then Simon himself also believed; and when he was baptized he continued with Philip, and was amazed, seeing the miracles and signs which were done…
Act 8:20 …But Peter said to him, "Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money!
Act 8:21 You have neither part nor portion in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God.
Act 8:22 Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you.
Act 8:23 For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity."
1Pe 4:17 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?
1Pe 4:18 Now "IF THE RIGHTEOUS ONE IS SCARCELY SAVED, WHERE WILL THE UNGODLY AND THE SINNER APPEAR?"
Jas 5:19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back,
Jas 5:20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.
2Ti 2:17 …Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort,
2Ti 2:18 who have strayed concerning the truth…
2Ti 2:24 …And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient,
2Ti 2:25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth,
2Ti 2:26 and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.
2Pe 2:20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.
2Pe 2:22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: "A DOG RETURNS TO HIS OWN VOMIT," and, "a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire."
Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
Heb 10:29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
Heb 6:6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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David A.,
Instead of directly answeing your question regarding Hebrews 6:4-6 I will pose a question for you to ponder. Verse 4-6 can be understood when we apply verse 7-8. Pay close attention to the rain and the two types of land. Looking back at verses 4-6 what is the rain and what type of people are represented by the two tpes of land as applied in verses 7-8?
Lord Bless,
LT
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Permalink Reply by David Abel on
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I understand the two different types of soil that when they receive the rain (Word of God), the one type produces good vegetation from the seed originally in it, and the other type produces thorns and thistles (worthless, to be burned) from the seed already in it. This does mean to me that both were saved initially (because God will not withold His salvation from anyone who initially seeks it correctly), but over time the true nature of people will be revealed, producing either sons of obedience unto eternal salvation or sons of disobedience unto wrath and destruction.
Also, the writer of Hebrews clearly indicates by his Holy Spirit inspired choice of words in Heb 6:6 - BACK to REPENTANCE, making it clear that such person had indeed previously repented unto salvation.
And also in Heb 10:29 - that such person had indeed been SANCTIFIED (CONSECRATED according to the Amplified version) by the blood of the covenant.
I checked different versions as well as Strong's Concordance to make these words clear, and I understand now that the writer of Hebrews included these descriptions to make it clear, not confused, that people who had previously truly repented, had been blood-washed, sanctified and consecrated, over the process of time and consequence had reached a point of losing their salvation and of no return. These are not non-entities that these verses are referring to.
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David A.,
I disagree with your view as you might expect. Let me ask you another question. What is your definition of repentance and does repentance automatically mean salvation? Keep in mind the O.T. as you ponder this thought.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Hi Amanda. Some thoughts about seed. Seed is taken in different contexts in the Bible. Seed can be God's Word, sown into people's lives, which can grow and bring a big harvest. Seed can be good or evil things already in the heart of people (which I believe is being referred to in Heb 6:7-8 as here the RAIN is God's Word, watering the good or evil seed already in the heart). Seed can also be those good things that God has planted in peoples lives and those things that the devil himself at the same time plants into peoples lives (parable of the tares sown with the wheat, which though a parable about what the kingdom of God is like, can be personalized for our individual lives).
Mat 13:24
Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
Mat 13:25
But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
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David and Amanda,
Putting this into context from this passage the rain is the work of the Holy Spirit and the Word of God. For many people fall under the conviction brought on by the Holy Spirit and the Word of God, yet reject the living Savior. Those who have been enlightened (mind changed regarding Jesus) and receive Him are the field that produces crops (fruit). Those who have been enlightened (mind changed regarding Jesus) and reject Him are the field that produces thorns and thistles.
The following text implies that they have seen the light, but prefer the darkness over the light:
JN 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."
Lord Bless,
LT
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Last thought from my side, that seems to imply that a son’s position in relation to the Father determines whether he’s saved or not:
The prodigal son left his father and his father’s house, of his own will and would have been lost and condemned if he stayed where he was. Once he returned to his father means he was either saved again or was always saved anyway (depending on which view you hold). The father never pursued the son, but received the son back when he of his own accord came back. If the son had remained away, he would have been lost forever.
Based on where the son is (spiritually speaking) in relation to where the Father is determines whether he’s saved or not. The bottom line, by virtue of this positioning of the son (with his Father or not), he can be chastened or not, blessed or not, in communication with the Father or not. So even a son can remain lost if he chooses to stay away from his Father and rot away with the swine (spiritually speaking).
The OSAS view can keep those who have strayed very far from God to a place where they cannot be helped, not even by God Himself, even though they were saved, and never return to Him in true humiliation and repentance, believing rather, “Oh well, once saved always saved.”
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David,
Did the son come home? Can you prove that one person who was ever born-again died in the pig-pen and was lost for eternity?
Lord Bless,
LT
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Hi LT, good question and point taken.
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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I been MIA these last few days, but it sure is cool to come home to a good healthy discussion. Excellent you all!
Blessings and love to all. You are loved.
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Please meditate on the following pray fully before promptly responding. Let it sink in and then respond. Yes, family, I am very familiar with James - Faith without works is dead.
Blessings and love to you all.
“The Gospel is not a call to repentance, or to amendment of our ways, to make restitution for past sins, or to promise to do better in the future. These things are proper in their place, but they do not constitute the Gospel; for the Gospel is not good advice to be obeyed, it is good news to be believed. Do not make the mistake then of thinking that the Gospel is a call to duty or a call to reformation, a call to better your condition, to behave yourself in a more perfect way than you have been doing in the past …
Nor is the Gospel a demand that you give up the world, that you give up your sins, that you break off bad habits, and try to cultivate good ones. You may do all these things, and yet never believe the Gospel and consequently never be saved at all.”
SOURCE: Dr. Harry A. Ironside, from the sermon: What Is The Gospel?
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Family/LB –
The Gospel:
Christ virgin birth
His perfect life to be a perfect sacrifice for the sins of many.
Death, resurrection and glorification
Ascension
I learnt about this saint just a couple of weeks ago and he is really blessing me, but I have not read his numerous books, but the little I have researched so far is very beautiful. This tube has a lot to do with this topic.
Blessings
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LB,
Why do you love to make me type hahaha
>>Also Bro. Ironside should not say such an untrue thing as this, in my opinion!
"You may do all these things, and yet never believe the Gospel"
>>That is impossible, isn't it?
I so wish you were right on this one topic above all others, unfortunately millions of people who depend on their performance for salvation and may look the part and know the lingo are lost.
He is absolutely correct, if nothing else you allow God to teach you about this discussion sis, please allow him to teach you this:
Judas was never saved - Yet, to ALL around him, his salvation must have been indisputable.
7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. 9 And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 10 The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. Matthew 3:1-12
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ Matthew 3
"When an evil spirit comes out of a man, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. Then it says, 'I will return to the house I left.' When it arrives, it finds the house unoccupied, swept clean and put in order. Then it goes and takes with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that man is worse than the first. That is how it will be with this wicked generation. Matthew 12
Meditate on the above Scriptures by reading them in context and seeking the Lord's face and then tell me what you received. You are probably very familiar with them, but seek the Lord and let's see what comes out.
Blessings
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