All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
Losing Salvation?
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If you could not give up your salvation voluntarily, then once you become saved you could then go ahead and do whatever you wish. You could steal, murder, cheat, lie, never pray, reject the scriptures, lead others astray, blaspheme God from morning to night - do anything that is sinful, rebellious, and against the laws of God. And you could do all this never confessing and never repenting. To believe that "once saved, always saved" is believing that one has a "license to sin" after the person is born again."
LOSING YOUR SALVATION -http://robertwells.tripod.com/losingsalvation.html
YOU CAN'T LOSE YOUR SALVATION OR HAVE IT TAKEN AWAY BUT.......
When you were saved you turned to God. Turning to God means the you have committed your life to trusting and obeying God. In John 1:6-7 it says, "If we claim to have fellowship with Him, yet we walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, then we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son, purifies us from all sin."
According to this text, "If we walk in the darkness, then we do not live by the truth." If our heart is not repentant when we sin, if our attitude is one of disobedience to the Laws and Commandments of God, if we turn away from God, if we live a life of sin, if we decide the effort to lead a Godly life is not worth it, if the actions of our lives indicate that we no longer desire to be one of God's children, then we don't lose our salvation, and salvation isn't taken from us, but we through our own free will, take our salvation and give it back to God. We tell God we don't want it. We give it up!!!
Ezekiel 3:20 "If the righteous turn from their righteousness and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumbling block before them, they shall die".
If you could not give up your salvation voluntarily, then once you become saved you could then go ahead and do whatever you wish. You could steal, murder, cheat, lie, never pray, reject the scriptures, lead others astray, blaspheme God from morning to night - do anything that is sinful, rebellious, and against the laws of God. To believe that "once saved, always saved" is believing that one has a "license to sin" after the person is born again."
So ask yourself this question. What is the only way to gain eternal salvation? There are a great many verses that tell us the answer. Below are just two of them:
Ephesians 2:8-9 "By this undeserved kindness, indeed, you have been saved through faith, and this not owing to you, it is God's gift."
1Peter 1:5 "Those who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed on the last day.
God makes salvation completely available through Jesus Christ - and not only to specific individuals, but to all who will receive and believe in Jesus Christ as savior. Jesus made this very clear when he said, "Whoever believes in me would not perish but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) The word "whoever" includes everybody. No person is excluded from the opportunity to believe and receive everlasting life.
Your relationship with God, as well as your eternal salvation are based upon faith. Faith that Jesus Christ is who, and what He says he is. And thus if you are committing those sins mentioned in the above paragraph, then you simply don't believe who Jesus is. A person practicing the above sinful actions, certainly indicates that the person no longer has any faith or belief in Jesus Christ.
In other words you can not walk in the darkness unrepentant and still hold onto your salvation. Keep in mind that repentance is much more than stopping the very act of committing those sins that you are asking forgiveness for. Repentance is actually the act of turning away from doing those sins, of not committing them anymore, of changing your life in such a way as you no longer want or desire to commit those sins. You are the one who decides whether to walk in the light or the darkness. God gave you the free will to make your own choices. If you decide to walk in the darkness then your salvation will not be taken away from you, nor will you lose your salvation. No, what you will do is give up your salvation. You will be telling God that your salvation "is not worth the effort it takes to walk in the light". That you do not wish to have his gift of eternal salvation. That you want to make it through this life on your own without any help from God. That you will follow the ways of the world rather than the ways of our Lord. So your own free will determines whether you are going to keep your salvation or give it up. God allows your eternal future to be in your own hands.
Since your own free will is what determines your eternal destiny, then it is very important to note that God will not force anyone to come to him. He is not going to get down on his knees and beg you to believe him, trust him, or accept him. Nor will he force you to love him or demand your obedience. The choice is up to each one of us whether to surrender our lives and our hearts to God or to refuse his love and his blessings. If you don't want any part of Jesus Christ then he is willing to accept that decision since it was made by you through your own free will.
Our Lord did tell us that once we are saved, once we are looking to him for everything, once we have surrendered completely to him, then no one could snatch us away from him.
John 10:28 "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand."
So you can't be snatched way, but you sure can walk away.
There are a great many examples of this in the Bible but my favorite is in the book of Mark. It has to do with the story about the time Jesus arrived by boat to a town where he met a demon possessed man who was living in a graveyard. (You can read the entire story in Mark 5:1-21, and it is a great example of people exercising their free will and possibly putting their eternal salvation in jeopardy).
The Bible mentions that this demon possessed man was unusually fierce and dangerous, so much so that the townspeople could not even use the roads in fear that they would be harmed or even killed by this demon possessed man. The demons who resided in this man recognized Jesus and even talked with Jesus, and they knew that Jesus had the power to expel them from the man. So the demons seeing a herd of pigs in the distance, told Jesus that if he was going to expel them from this man, then would Jesus allow the demons to enter into the herd of pigs. So Jesus expelled the demons and the demons left the man and entered into the pigs. Suddenly the pigs realized something was terribly wrong and every single pig rushed over the cliff to their death. The pigs evidently realized that they would rather be dead than to have those demons living within them.
Now the pig herders saw all this happening and they went to the town and told everyone all the details. Verse 17 tells of the townspeople response. "Then the people began to beg Jesus to leave their area." So the response of the townspeople was to tell Jesus to get out of there because they were holding Jesus responsible for the destruction of a whole herd of pigs. They were furious at Jesus because of this economic loss. All that these people could do was to scream at him because they no longer had this herd of pigs. So you can see that the people's only concern was the economic loss of the pigs.
What is really interesting is Jesus's response.
Jesus didn't try to explain to the townspeople that they no longer had to worry about this very dangerous demon possessed man. That he was no longer a threat to their safety. Nor did Jesus ask them if they wanted to know why this formerly demon possessed man was now able to sit there quietly, fully dressed, and in his right state of mind. Nor did he try to tell them that if he could expel demons from this man, then just think of the demons that he could expel from the rest of the townspeople. Neither did Jesus ask the people if they wanted to find out more about this man who could expel demons or why he even did what he did, or why he even came there in the first place. And Jesus certainly didn't argue with the people that the price of the pigs was rather small compared to their peace of mind and their eternal future. Jesus didn't even ask these people if they wanted to learn about the one who sent him. Jesus didn't do any of these things because he could see that the only thing any of these people really cared about was the economic loss of the pigs. They had their minds all made up and money was the number one thing in their lives. They exerted their free will and told Jesus to leave town and leave town now. They had exercised their free will.
Using their own free will, those people wanted nothing to do with Jesus. Their only interest was in worldly things and because of that, they told Jesus to hit the road and go some place else and kill pigs. Jesus knew exactly what was in their hearts, and that their minds were closed to anything that Jesus had to say. So what did Jesus do? Jesus simply turned around, boarded the boat and proceeded across the water and went into his own city. Without a word, he simply turned and left, and very possibly took with him their eternal salvation.
John 15:1-2 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He removes every branch in me that bears no fruit. Every branch that bears fruit he prunes to make it bear more fruit".
John 15:6 "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch, and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned".
1 Corinthians 10:12 "Therefore let him who thinks he is standing, beware, that he does not fall".
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by RoyW on
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Amanda,
If it is by works, then you are correct. As long as I do my part, I will be saved. If I fail, I will be lost. I understand that you say that as long as I repent I will be saved. However, at some point I must perform. It always comes down to me and what I finally do and choose. Your position is that it always comes down to the individual which you are correct, that is what some believe. It is not His will that matters, it is my own free will. He is limited waiting on my choice. If I do finally choose Him, He will help me but it is still me.
However, if it is by Him and it is His choice, then I am definitely saved since no one can go against His will. This would mean that it is not by my works but by His grace. I am saved, not by any of my works, but by His grace and His grace alone.
You and I are not going to solve this disagreement. However, it is either by His grace alone or by His grace after I choose and perform to a certain level regardless how limited that standard might be. You say I don't have to do too much but I must do something.
I believe Jesus came to get me. That is my belief. My freewill or His will - it is by His will that I have been born again. I just can't help but believe that I am saved by His will. That is what I believe.
I pray that your freewill gets you there. However, I am going to rest in His will.
God bless you.
Roy -
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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Amanda,
>>King Saul had the Holy Spirit and he lost it. King David had slipped into habitual sin, it started with a lustful look, then adultery, then lying, then murder, and King David was praying for God's mercy and forgiveness. We do not know what happened to King Saul. We simply do not know, but He was God's annoited. He is a good example that God will allow us to live a prosperous life in Christ or a sorry Christian life.
We have a much better covenant than the Old Testament saints. The laws of God are now written in our hearts. The Holy Spirit would come and go upon the Old Testament saints. We are sealed with Him now. David said return unto me the Joy of my salvation, not return to me my salvation.
Our perseverance does not secure our salvation for is not due to works, since true believers are kept by the power for God through faith for salvation. (1Pet.1:5) God says: I will put my fear in their hearts so that they will not depart from me (Jer. 32:40) those who fall away from Christ give conclusive proof that they were never truly believers to begin with. 1John 2:19 these people left our churches, but they never really belonged with us; otherwise they would have stayed with us. When they left, it proved that they did not belong with us. The warnings and pleas in scripture are among the means God uses to secure our perseverance in the Faith.
>>Luke 15
The Parable of the Lost Sheep, The Parable of the Lost Coin, The Parable of the Lost Son.
Those three parables are talking about saving the lost. The Parable of the Lost son is use inappropriately to teach that a save person has walked away, but that is not what the parable is teaching.
The following is by J. M. Feazell
No longer worthy to be called your son — This could be in a legal and a moral sense: He had no rights for further inheritance, and his behavior had not been up to family standards.
This son of mine was dead — In what way was he dead? Here are two possibilities: 1) The father heard about the famine, hadn't heard from his son in a long time, and thought he had died. 2) Perhaps he counted him metaphorically dead because he had become as a Gentile. Some Jews conducted funerals for children who married Gentiles. But the father doesn't seem to be the type to disown his son.
So far, this parable has been parallel to the first two parables; the lost has been found and there is rejoicing. Now the older son is introduced for an additional lesson in the parable. In some ways this is two parables in one, both parts ending with the statement about dead and alive, lost and found. Both sons are lost — one who left home (like the sheep that was lost in v. 4) and one who was lost even while at home (like the coin in v. 8). Both the "sinners" and the Pharisees were separated from God — the first ones are visibly lost, the others still live at home — but both are welcomed when they turn to God. -
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Robert
Hebrews 10 Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins. 27 There is only the terrible expectation of God’s judgment and the raging fire that will consume his enemies. 28 For anyone who refused to obey the law of Moses was put to death without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Just think how much worse the punishment will be for those who have trampled on the Son of God, and have treated the blood of the covenant, which made us holy, as if it were common and unholy, and have insulted and disdained the Holy Spirit who brings God’s mercy to us. 30 For we know the one who said, “I will take revenge. I will pay them back.” He also said, “The Lord will judge his own people.” 31 It is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God. 32 Think back on those early days when you first learned about Christ. Remember how you remained faithful even though it meant terrible suffering. 33 Sometimes you were exposed to public ridicule and were beaten, and sometimes you helped others who were suffering the same things. 34 You suffered along with those who were thrown into jail, and when all you owned was taken from you, you accepted it with joy. You knew there were better things waiting for you that will last forever. 35 So do not throw away this confident trust in the Lord. Remember the great reward it brings you! 36 Patient endurance is what you need now, so that you will continue to do God’s will. Then you will receive all that he has promised. 37 “For in just a little while, the Coming One will come and not delay. 38 And my righteous ones will live by faith. But I will take no pleasure in anyone who turns away.” 39 But we are not like those who turn away from God to their own destruction. We are the faithful ones, whose souls will be saved.
These verses deal with the sin of Apostasy. Apostates are people who get close to the things pertaining to God and salvation, but intentionally fall away, they understand the Gospel, but rebel and walk away. Not all the Hebrews would respond to the gentle invitation of vv.19-25. The writer excludes himself and genuine believers from those who turn back (v.39). Sin willfully – the sin is rejecting Christ deliberately. Knowledge – the Greek term denotes specific knowledge, not general spiritual knowledge (6:4, 1Tim. 2:4). Judas is a good example of a disciple who had no lack of knowledge, but lack faith and became the arch-apostate. No longer – the apostate is beyond salvation
Mark 3:28-29 (King James Version)
Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.
Those verses have nothing to do with salvation. A child of God is already saved. He cannot blaspheme the Holy Spirit in the way those verses teach. Denying the work of Christ.
Robert - If you want to believe that you can lose your salvation then make sure you abide in Christ and don't lose it.
For those who believe that salvation cannot be lost as Scripture teaches, do not use this freedom and grace to sin.
Blessings family. -
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Permalink Reply by forgiven on
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David, Well, what in tarnation have we been debating then? I have no arguement with that. I thought you were saying those who deliberately sin.....continue in Salvation. Yes, I agree those who continue in faith, prayer and turning to God cannot lose salvation. But those who come to the Lord and then reject Him are certainly not saved.
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Linda,
This is beautiful. By the way, you and Rod are that rose. How long have you been a believer?
Roy -
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Permalink Reply by Rod Askew on
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Hello Roy,
Linda for 25 years and me for 5 years.
I've still got a lot to learn.
But I have a great teacher.
Blessings
Rod -
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Rod,
I feel sorry for those Linda sets her sights on. They don't have a chance. She has a special gift. Her spirit is catching. I have learned as well from her. I was very blessed by the video she put on this morning, or I guess this evening there. What time is it there?
Roy -
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Then, we are nine hours behind you. Your day is ending and mine is just beginning.
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Permalink Reply by Carla on
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Thank you for posting this Linda Ruth.. This is a very encouraging message.. I hope many will listed to it.
Blessings, Carla -
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Michelle -
God loves you and so do we. You should have enough scripture here to decide for yourself as the teacher of teachers, the Holy Spirit, leads you to all truth. If your mind is already made up my sis, know that I am sure of this one thing - you are not of those that turn back, you are among those that persevere.
Blessings. :) -
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