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How can a good God send people to Hell
I have friends who cannot believe in a God who sends decent people, maybe any
people, to hell.
Any ideas of what I can say?
people, to hell.
Any ideas of what I can say?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Their concept of the whole thing is backwards. They assume that man has some right to be in heaven and if man ends up in hell God has denied us our right and He has somehow been cruel and unjust (Rom. 3:23; 6:23). The reality is God created the heavens and the earth, and all that is seen and is unseen. He created them all and proclaimed them as "good" (Gen. 1). He created us and angels with freewill. Satan and one-thrid of the angels rebeled and wared against God. They lost their position and have been judged. Their sentencing phase is over, they are just waiting for the date that they will start serving their eternal sentence. God created man to fellowship, worship and love Him. In the garden of Eden, Adam and Eve "rejected" God. Thet instantly knew thier guilt. When God came to walk with them they had hid from Him for the first time, further giving example of how sin separates us from God (Gen. 3). Their sin brought sin and judgment upon all of creation. You and I today live in a sin tainted world. Though we are born into a sinful world we are not judged and condemned for Adam's sin, but rather for our own (Rom. 3:23). Not one person alive, except the Son of God, has ever lived a life without sin. We deserve hell because of sin. We choose to sin against God and therefore choose to separate ourselves from Him (Isa. 59:1-4). We cannot have it both ways. We cannot choose to embrace sin and God at the sametime. Our guilt is before us. The reality is that in our sinful state we could never endure standing in the full radiance of God's presence. Our sin would be so revealed that we would seek to run and hide as Adam did. Even in our lost state, God was not satisfied. He did not say "They are lost, let me move on." No, in fact He sent His Son to die for us and in doing so He came "to seek the lost." This concept again tells us that we are away from Him and needed to be found. The Son has come and He died on the cross to pay the penalty for our sin. He came that we may be cleansed, redeemed, regenerated and made whole. He came to restore us to Himself that we may be found in His presence. Man in his freewill has been given the freedom to accept the gift or reject the gift. Accept the gift and we are redeemed. Reject the gift and we "remain" in our lost state with the final destination being the Lake of Fire. God's judgment is righteous and His verdict true, yet in His grace and mercy has offered man to be redeemed (saved). Once again man has a choice. Do I accept God and His offer on His terms or did I declare foul and blame Him if I wish to live my life the way I want and reject His gracious offer, the offer that I do not desere. If I reject the offer, I choose hell over God, or more accurately, separation from God.
Last thought. Once again people get the picture out of order. Heaven and hell are not the true issue. My goal is not heaven, but the Father Himself. If my focus is on the Father and my relationship with Him, which was broken and now has been restored, I am not seeking either heaven or worried about hell. Those who accuse God are not seeking God, but rather seek to tell God how it should be done. They seek to try and justify themseves and proclaim that they are not deserving of hell.
Read Isaiah 45
ISA 29:16 You turn things upside down,
as if the potter were thought to be like the clay!
Shall what is formed say to him who formed it,
"He did not make me"?
Can the pot say of the potter,
"He knows nothing"?
Lord Bless,
LT
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Permalink Reply by Jan on
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Hi LT,
Thank you very much for your thoughtful and thought provoking reply.
The trouble is, my friends aren't interested in heaven either. They dont believe God exists if hell exists.
It's hard, as I dont understand the purpose of hell either. I love and trust God completely so
am content to put it down and focus on Him - until it represents a stumbling block to someone dear.
I can understand exclusion from heaven.
Not too sure about it as a deterrent - deterrents seem to be for people who only do the right
thing to avoid consequences for themselves. Also it can be either a starting point for faith or
a stumbling block.
I dont understand why someone would have to suffer for eternity where there is no chance
of release, particularly if there is a change of heart.
Maybe I should leave it to God and the Holy Spirit?
God bless,
Jan
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Jan,
My heart goes out to you as you agonize over your friends. Your dilemma is that you cannot believe for them. God has given His word, the Bible (2 Tim. 3:16; Rom. 10:17). He has declared His glory in all of creation (Psalm 19). The Spirit of God brings conviction regarding the truth and specifically several as mentioned in John 16:8-11. Your friends do not believe because they either have not been exposed to the truth or have rejected it. You are called to share the gospel and to love them. God gives them the freedom to accept or reject, with eternal consequences attached.
If your friends do not believe that God exists if hell is exists, then they simply do not believe in God at all, except the one that they would choose to create if they could. They want a God that meets there expectations and conforms to their standard or way of thinking. That is not the God of the universe. (I apologize for the directness of the comment, but that is the best answer)
You said, "I dont understand why someone would have to suffer for eternity where there is no chance of release, particularly if there is a change of heart." Several things arise here. There can be no change of heart without the power of the Spirit of God at work and He will not be working on behalf of lost people in hell. Those in hell will not wish to accept God for who He is, but only to escape the torment. The offer of salvation is given during this lifetime and then there is judgment. The chance is now, not tomorrow and not at the great white throne. Hell is not cruel, this is what we deserve, but for the grace and mercy of God, which your friends are rejecting. God wishes none to Perish, but also must allow freewill to run its course. The wages of sin (of which we all are guilty of) is death, but the gift of life (which none of us deserve) is eternal life (Rom. 6:23).
One must learn to embrace the awe and wonder of salvation through Jesus. When we see the great gift and the benevolence of a gracious God in light of who we are and what we deserve then we begin to understand the point of hell and its finality.
I do not presume to have answered all your questions, but wish for you to come to a place where you yearn for their salvation, but do not carry their guilt for them. Jesus is willing to take their guilt away, but they must submit to God on His terms, not their's.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Permalink Reply by alon on
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Hell was created for satan and demons. God,s words clearly states that He wants all people to come to the knowledge of Jesus, our Lord and savior.It is not hell that leads people to Him. It is His kindness that leads us to repentance. His unfailing love for us will not cease if we decide to reject Him.Even if someone chooses to spend eternity away from Him His love is ever present. When the clouds are rolled away and we see Jesus,some of His words will be,with a sad longing that the ones that rejected Him would have used the faith that God put in each one of us, ''how many times did I tell you I love you?,''how many times did I send someone to tell you I love you? They will beg for just one more chance, but it will be to late. God has done everything to reconcile us back to Him. His words are true,His ways are Holy. His way back to Him,through Jesus,is perfect, lacking nothing. God has dealt with sin in an extreme way.That's because He is holy and cannot recieve sin in heaven.The only ones to be in heaven are the ones He sees His atoning blood on.God cannot look upon sin. When Jesus took the sin of the world upon Himself, He cried out,''father,why have you forsaken Me?'' He became sin,and His own Father could not look at him. What an awesome loving God that would love us enough to send His only son, and what a high price He payed.
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Permalink Reply by Donna Layne on
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Okay, What I did not read any write it this simple fact:
Anyone who believes in Jesus, our Lord and Savior, IS GOING TO HEAVEN !!!!!!!!!! No one sin is greater than another sin. Sin is sin. We all sin.
No matter what u have done. If you simply BELIEVE in Christ you are going to heaven. Sounds too simple doesn't it. That is how simple it is.
that is what the bible says over and over and over again. Blessed are those who have not seen Christ yet still believe.
Many do not know that. Even if we don't understand Christ, if we only believe in him, we are going to heaven.
Now also remember this: The confusing part is this: we are still judged. Yes we will be judged. How can we be saved and go to heaven yet still be judged?
We will be judged by Christ in Heaven. This is found in 2 Corinthians 5:10. "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that everyone may receive the things done in his body, according to that he has done, whether it be good or bad. we will be given crowns in heaven according to our deeds on earth.
I too have friends that do not want anything to do with the church or the bible. They do nice things for people and all that, but they are missing the key, belief in Christ. If you do not believe in Christ, you are going to hell. God gave his only son, who was stripped of his skin basically and ridiculed and disrobed and hung on a cross to die for our sins. So not believing is really belittling our Father in Heaven for his sacrifice of his son and belittling what Jesus did for us. If Jesus did not die on the cross so dramatically would the story still be with us today. It had to be that gruesome. could any one of your friends do what Jesus did. That is how much he loved us. He gave his life for us. So, not believing, that is what keeps people out of Heaven. God did all that because he wants us to be his friends. Look what he tolerates from us. And in all of our disgusting sins he still provides food and air and a place to live and all of the wonderful things he does for us. God Loves us so much can we not show him some respect and love him for his sacrifices. Yes they will go to hell for not believing in Jesus. The bible clearly states that none of our works will get us into heaven, only belief in Jesus, our Lord and Savior, who was God in the flesh, will get us into heaven. God spoke life into existence with his words. Jesus was the word, in the flesh, the truth and the light and the only way into heaven. Noone comes to the father except through the Son (by believing in him, that he died for us). If people cannot accept that and be proud to say the name Jesus, obviously ashamed to do so, then i can see why God would send them to hell. There are only 2 ways to choose from. God and Jesus or Satan. Choose carefully, it is for eternity. It really is that simple. When Jesus left he left The Holy Ghost with us to watch over us and help us. BELIEVE BELIEVE BELIEVE, . Once u belive than u cannot help but seek what this wonderful Jesus had to say and also u would try to be like him. God loves us all, and wants us to be with him. If he did not want that he would not have sacrificed his Son. We are so full of sin, no matter how "good" we think we are that God cannot even look upon us that is why Jesus came. No one is good but the Father. We are all sinners. We should be ashamed of ourselves. we don't even know what and how we sin but God does. I am sorry for those who will not be in heaven but u must keep planting the seed to them because when Jesus comes to take us to the place he has gone to and created for us, those left behind will get another chance to believe and they will remember you saying the things you did and you may see them in heaven yet. don't give up.
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Permalink Reply by kristina on
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TO: Donna
Its more to it than just "believing" God requires us to repent of ours SINS Be baptized in Jesus' Name (not titles) and Receive the Gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 3:19-39
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
The name in which baptism is administered is vitally important, and this name is Jesus.
Jesus' last command to His disciples was, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Matthew 28:19). We should notice that He said name (singular) not names. As previously explained, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are not names of separate persons, but titles of positions held by God. An angelic announcement revealed God's saving name in the New Testament: "She shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins" (Matthew 1:21).
The apostles understood that Jesus was the name to use at baptism, and from the day that the church of God was established (the Day of Pentecost) until the end of their ministry, they baptized all nations (Jews--Acts 8:16; Gentiles--Acts 19:5) in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.
In fact, Jesus is the only name given for our salvation. "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (Acts 4:12).The baptism of the Holy Ghost is the birth of the Spirit (John 3:5). This spiritual baptism is necessary to put someone into the kingdom of God (God's church, the bride of Christ) and is evidenced by speaking in other tongues (other languages) as the Spirit of God give utterance.
It was prophesied by Joel (Joel 2:28-29) and Isaiah (Isaiah 28:11), foretold by John the Baptist (Matthew 3:11), purchased by the blood of Jesus, and promised by Him to His disciples (John 14:26; 15:16). The Holy Ghost was first poured out on the Day of Pentecost upon the Jews (Acts 2:1-4), then upon the Samaritans (Acts 8:17), and later upon the Gentiles (Acts 10:44-46; 19:6). "The promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call" (Acts 2:39).***Jesus has paid the full price for man’s salvation (I Corinthians 6:20) and so fellowship with God can ultimately be restored. Man can now escape from the bondage of sin and the curse that it brought upon the world. This is because a man can be born again. Through our natural birth we inherit from Adam, our earthly father, sin, suffering and death. But when a man is born again it is a spiritual birth. We then inherit from our Heavenly Father righteousness, joy and eternal life. The born again experience is God’s gift to the sinner (Romans 5:15).
By being born again, a person is made a new creature and is given a chance to start his life all over again (II Corinthians 5:17). Not only are his sins washed away and forgotten (Hebrews 8:12), but he is filled with the Spirit of God to help him in his resistance to sin (Galatians 5:16). Being born again is the very heart of the gospel of Christ, and it still comes in the same glorious and powerful way that it came when the church began (Hebrews 13:8; Acts 2:39). As you will see from the following pages, the Bible gives very detailed directions on how to be born again. The eternal destiny of a person’s soul is determined by his obedience to the Word of God (Romans 6:17
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Check out this site for some help: http://www.gotquestions.org/eternal-hell-fair.html. They answer the question: How is eternity in Hell a fair punishment for sin?
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Permalink Reply by Carla on
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Hi Jan,
You have gotten some wonderful responses here. Lt is so right! Take what he has said to heart, but don't get into another discussion with these friends over it. But study it, know it....There may be a time when you will need it!
My husband is a self-proclaiming athiest. 'nuf said right!
My heart goes out to You. The best thing you can do is to strengthen your own faith around other believers. Stay in fellowship, join groups during the week, and study and pray daily each and every day.
1.)Read your bible,
2.)share your faith, and
3.)walk out your own faith daily.
Mark down those 3 things and be very intentional about living them out.
You do not have to defend God's plan to people. When you try to do so you will end up engaging the enemy. ( i have been there myself, please do not-----you will end of depleted, exhausted and will experience questioning your own faith).
But also, what people don't realize, is that God's plan to TO BE WITH THEM. HE LOVES EACH OF US SO MUCH---HE JUST WANTS TO BE WITH US. THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT!!!
Sometimes people are asking questions because they want to justify their own beliefs. They do not want to be accountable to God....in those times there is nothing you can say to open their eyes....They have been blinded by the enemy (read 2 Corinthians chapters 3 and 4).
(Also particularly 2 Cor 4:8-10)
Ask God where the Holy Spirit is already working....you will know! When you ask God He places them almost in your lap. :)
So then when I suggest to you to share your faith, go to people whom you do not know, and don't know you. Go to the broken hearted, the weary, the lost....BUT go with God. He will show you where He wants you to go. Simply ask Him.
But it is crucial that you spend time with the Lord in prayer, and studying His Word before you even do that. You are also being sanctified and God is growing you up (as He is all of us :) )
So ...protect your faith. Make sure you are being fed and filled every day.
Do not throw your pearls to the swine, they will trample them and then turn to attack you. (Matt 7:6, paraphrased)
God is faithful....do Not give up! Stand Strong with your full armor on. Eph 6:10-18.
I hope this helps you.
Love in Christ, Carla
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Permalink Reply by Stew on
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Carla makes a very important recommendation here:
You do not have to defend God's plan to people. When you try to do so you will end up engaging the enemy.
We often feel the "need" to power up and "save" those we perceive are lost souls. Now while our perception may be pretty good, we cannot fully understand the timing of our Father in Heaven. Jesus made it clear that God's timing is according to His schedule and we are not to be concerned with that. I've found myself attempting to "push" all the data and material I can gather in front of a person to help them make a good choice for Christ. Those occasions are typically driven by my personal schedule. Once you have shared the Good News with a person, you have met the obligation of the Great Commission. You will not find any accounts in Holy Scripture of anybody making the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc. attempt at "conversion of a nonbeliever" since the power of conversion is something that is left to God.
I also agree with the pearls to swine reference. It is so difficult not to share in "yet another way" for those that we care about. Pray for your friends. It is the most powerful support that you can give them and it is an appeal directly to our Father in Heaven. God your Father really likes it when you talk to him. Our heavenly Father is infinitely patient and he hears your prayers. But remember, the timing is a private matter that our Father in Heaven keeps to Himself.
May God bless you.
-Stew
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Firstly, my apologies for disappearing so soon after raising the question. I am afraid I
was waylaid by a virus. Virus + Fibromyalgia can lead to long silences!
Thank you all for your excellent advice, from LTs advice to focus on the Father and not heaven or hell to Carla's and Stew's not to defend God's plan.
I am hoping and praying it is just a matter of God's timing, Stew, as these people are very dear to me. For your husband too Carla. And that whoever God chooses will listen to the promptings of the Holy Spirit and say the right thing.
God bless and thank you
Jan
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Permalink Reply by Stephen on
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Dear Jan,
I took keen interest in your question and have followed this discussion intently. I too have questions in regard to hell and how it is best explained, especially to non believers.
To me the greatest theme of the bible is love. Real love. Agape love.
Maybe we might all do well to step back and try and see the big picture for a moment.
As I understand it we are all smack dab in the middle of a great controversy between God and satan. God deals with the resultant situation as he has since the dawn of time.
His purpose is to save everyone from the trap of sin and restore us to life in and with him. This is more important to me as a sinner than all the doctrine and fire and brimstone in the world.
It is all about love and how we react to it. I was not frightened into the arms of my redeemer rather I was wooed by the holy spirit and the love of a God willing to pay such a high price for me. It is this that I believe we should keep our minds and hearts focused on. Would that we never forget the awsome power of the gospel to reach mens hearts!
Yes Jan timing is indeed a factor. All in Gods good time.
I hope and pray that your virus and the resulting complications subside and pray for you a complete restoration to good health. I also pray for those close to you and that they might share in the peace that passeth understanding that you and I share.
Be especially blessed in this season of Christmas and know that you are loved both here on this site and in heaven.
In his love Stephen
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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Bro Stephen,
I get the idea of the pic, but Jesus can just think it or speak it and Satan, a created being is gone. God fights through the Holy angels and us humans, we battle the fallen principalities with weapons that are not carnal.
2 Corinthians 10
The Spiritual War
3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. 4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, 5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ, 6 and being ready to punish all disobedience when your obedience is fulfilled.
Again I understand what the painter tried to depict with the attached pic but that pic is so far from the truth that, I needed to bring it up.
Jesus is in no struggle with a created being that is no match for Him. Satan can ONLY DO what He is allowed, period dot dot. So there is no wrestling going on:
John 19:30 (New International Version)
30When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.
You say: "As I understand it we are all smack dab in the middle of a great controversy between God and satan."
Such controversy does not exist. God has created the world and the beings (angels and Humans) according to His good pleasure. No great controversey between an ALL POWERFUL GOD AND AN ANGEL HE MADE.
Read that again - "God againts Satan" hahaahaha is even comical. hahaaha Satan would get woooooppppppp No match. No controversy, no such thing exist. Satan is called the adversary, because He is, but only because God is using Him to establish His Glory and goals.
You say: " I was not frightened into the arms of my redeemer rather I was wooed by the holy spirit and the love of a God willing to pay such a high price for me."
We have to be careful not to make doctrines (dogmas) out of our own experiences.
God brought me to His knowladge through fear. He brough such conviction into my life, that i knew, i was dealing with an Almighty God, that one day i would have to answer to Him and i was not ready to do so. I was afraid and repented. i then mature and grew to love Him, because He loved me first. But the thought of going before him as an unrrepentant soul was terryfiying.
So God may have wooed your, i have no dought about that brother, but He also confronts some with their sin and the fear of God falls on them, which is a blessing.
Hebrews 10
3 0For we know him who said, "It is mine to avenge; I will repay,"and again, "The Lord will judge his people."[e] 31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Blessings
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