All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
Should I be scared of Hebrews Chapters 6 and 10?
I have been studding this minister some. I think we should examine His teaching, and then decide if what He's teaching is right or not. Watch the whole video and then decide?
UPDATE - I added the full Sermon he preached on this subject
UpDate: 6/22/13
* I removed my replies and extra videos. The purpose is to simplify the Discussion.
Views: 814
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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I am familiar with the brother in the vid. I have watched many of his videos in the past. He is sound.
If you are born again - you should not fear Hebrews 6 and 10. If you are someone who understands the message of the Gospel intellectually and have even been in the midst of God's presence (tasted of his goodness), but then reject that/him, then that person should fear.
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Permalink Reply by RoyW on
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Gregory,
I think it is important to study the background of the purpose of Hebrews. This Gospel was primarily written to those who came out of Judaism to the new way of walking with Christ. Sometimes we make the mistake of believing that this way of walking with Christ requires sinless perfection. As I listened to the letters from Candace and Solomon I suspect that they are struggling with knowing the way of Christ rather than their falling back into their sin. I don't know what their sin is but it is really not that important. Sin is sin. Sin separates us from the presence of God. We are all sinners. Our only hope is Jesus. If, while we seek to overcome our sins, we find ourselves actually overcome by them, that does not necessarily mean that we have backslidden. I remember as a young man being saved over and over again. I came to repent and fell back into sin. My sins were not terrible sins but I knew them to be sin never-the-less.
However, I do think there is danger. I think we can become so focused on works that we lose focus on Christ. We are instructed in Hebrews to fix our focus on Jesus and not on ourselves or on certain religious systems such as Judaism which obviously cannot save. Jesus saves. If He doesn't save us from our sin, we are all in a heap of trouble. Our confidence must be in Jesus and not in our own ability to overcome sin. I have overcome some sin in my life but still have a long way to go. I suspect that you do as well. These two young persons are just beginning their walk with Christ. I do believe they have a lack of understanding of what salvation really is.
After beginning with Christ, we must not concentrate on ourselves but on Christ. Having begun with Christ through grace, we cannot go back and believe it is how successful I am rather than how successful He was. We will all become extremely discouraged if we focus on ourselves. We must fix our thoughts on Jesus as instructed in this Book of Hebrews.
How do we go back to wallow in our sins like a pig wallows in mud? I understand this terminology very well as I used to be a pig farmer. You can wash a pig but he will not stay clean as he will immediately go and look for mud to wallow in. That is not the way it is with us. We might become dirty but we will look to be clean. We are born again. We are not that old person that is like a pig. If we are, then we were never saved in the first place. We are still pigs.
The new born person is clean because of the work of Christ. He remains clean because of the work of Christ. He will stand clean before God because of the work of Christ. He will never reach a place in this work where he can depend on his own works of righteousness to be righteous. We will always need to depend on Jesus. That is the Sabbath rest spoken of by the Apostle in Hebrews 3 and 4.
To return to wallowing is returning to some kind of system that depends on our efforts, our abilities, our own righteous acts. That person should never think he is saved from his sins. He is as lost as he ever was. Our hope is in Jesus and in Him alone. These two young people have their eyes fixed on their actions rather than on Christ. I trust they can learn what it means to be saved.
I guess I must disagree somewhat with the gentleman that answered the question. I am sure he is a wonderful man but I do believe he missed a great opportunity here to preach the Gospel of Jesus. Perhaps he is most concerned about a system that teaches that once we go through the salvation process, we can live just any old way that we want and still consider ourselves saved. That kind of Gospel is not preached in Scripture. I sensed a greater genuineness in these two young persons than that.
However, I do not believe we can trample the work of Christ under our feet and be saved. We must treat the Gospel as holy. We must always treat the work of Christ as holy. His sacrifice is complete. It is the ONLY way. We cannot seek other ways. Jesus is our only hope. He is the only way. There is no other system available that will work.
Blessings.
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on
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Roy,
I agree with your stance and part of his answer in the video includes his reasoning that there is nothing in Scripture that encourages us that falling away is safe but I'm not sure he defines clearly what falling away actually is and means in Hebrews.
He says Scripture gives no examples of people who made false professions and then were later truly saved. He says God has made it clear that if you know the truth and then fall away, there is no repentance. He appears to be saying that falling away can happen through sinning and going back to our sin and that is the same as rejecting Christ as the only way of being saved. At minute 8 he appears to be declaring that knowing Christ as the only way of salvation and then going back to sin is equal to saying Christ isn't the only way to salvation. I disagree with that.
Falling away is going back to believing that Christ isn't the only way after being enlightened that He is and that there is no other way. It would include returning to a false religion.
God’s way is by personal faith in Jesus Christ Who is our substitute and bore the penalty of our sin, and He provides all of the righteousness which we lack and always will lack. This is my understanding. When we sin after being born again we are not in jeopardy of not being able to repent anymore. In fact, mind renewal is a process of receiving more and more light everyday and having continual repentance as I understand it.
The loss one feels for sinning, and even the self condemnation that a weak Christian feels when his or her weak conscience is defiled, is the separation or alienation from God experienced as the result of sin but doesn't mean the loss of salvation.
To continue in sin when we feel guilt is to feel separated from God until one's conscience is clear again. It can be very hard to feel right with God again because we are in a spiritual war and many of the wounds we have are the fiery darts thrown at us by the enemy especially in the areas of faith where we are so weak that our conscience becomes violated with sinning and the enemy would have us believe there is no repentance and no more acceptance for us from God.
This is where we must not rely on the feelings but on the truths of God's word and allow those truths to become beliefs rooted in our hearts and not rooted in our emotions. I may not feel saved at times but I can know what God actually teaches about being saved and, as you said, what it means to be saved.
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Let me add this:
This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. ( John 3:19, NIV)
It is not enough to merely be enlightened or to even, in one sense, believe. There is more to being born again and being a true believer.
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I have not heard the other videos so I might be talking out of place. I forgot the statement that he did not know of any case where someone walked away but accepted back (that may not be exactly what he said) but I would like to interject that the prodigal son is an example of someone walking away from the Father and the Father running to accept him back. I am quite sure that anyone who calls on the name of Jesus in faith will be completely saved from all their sins. Faith, not works is the key. If we believe, we belong to Him and that is the final judgment. He who does not believe does not belong to Him. That person is not born again. He may have accepted Christ in some kind of formal ceremony but that does not save anyone. He may have been baptized a thousand times but that still does not save anyone. However, if one believes and acknowledges his faith openly before mankind, he is completely saved from hell and never has to worry about hell ever again. Why do we continually attempt to attach a cost to this free gift. If you belong to Him, if you walk away, He will put you in a pigpen to get you back. It's going to happen. No way that it does not happen. You are coming back. Hebrews six and ten is not speaking to this situation.
If he says in one of this videos that the prodigal son does not apply to the discussion, I completely disagree. Jesus saved me and don't anyone try to take that from me. Don't under any circumstances attempt to make this a works-based salvation. I completely failed in a works-based salvation but served my Lord in freedom for forty-some years after receiving this knowledge of truth. I am now on hold a little but awaiting my next orders.
Gregory, relax. You do not need to worry. Do not allow bondage to overtake you. All believers are saved and all unbelievers are lost. That is the Gospel. Jesus promised us that if we believed in Him, heaven is guaranteed. It's His promise. Who is brave enough out there to call Him a liar. All believers are eternally saved.
I agree with you, Amanda, on your position on sin and the effect it has on the believer. I do not think, however, that we should ever allow sin to cause us to feel we are separated from God. We are not separated. We are sorry that we failed, but He is still our Father. His chastening will always remind us of that.
The older I get the more I love my Savior and my God.
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Roy,
You said,
"I agree with you, Amanda, on your position on sin and the effect it has on the believer. I do not think, however, that we should ever allow sin to cause us to feel we are separated from God. We are not separated. We are sorry that we failed, but He is still our Father. His chastening will always remind us of that."
Yes, and that's why I said what I said regarding that this is where we must not rely on the feelings but on the truths of God's word and allow those truths to become beliefs rooted in our hearts and not rooted in our emotions. I may not feel saved at times but I can know what God actually teaches about being saved and, as you said, what it means to be saved.
It is very humbling to fully realize what it is that Jesus has actually done for us. I agree, well said, Roy, well said. May everyone come to this assurance.
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PS Sinning can cause the loss of the joy of salvation and can cause loss of communion with God. We can grieve the Spirit. Yet, we always belong to the Father and remain a child of God. I'm still learning so correct me where I'm in error.
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I am enjoying eveyones impute here, keep it up Y'all. Good stuff. I do like Tim, but don't agree with all he states and I appreciate Roy and Amanda's posts that sort through his teachings.
I believe his zeal and passion for God are from God and his teachings are for the most very sound. But again thanks Amanda and Roy for looking at this in a deeper way.
Love and blessings family.
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Amen. Wow! I just got back from helping my wife clean a portion of my son's church. They have stations and we have been given station 2. She and I finished our job (it takes about four hours a week) and then we just walked away. We do not need to worry about anything. What a blessing that was. I say, "invest in your children. It will pay off." lol. I am grateful for you all. You are such a blessing. The Word is important to you all and this site is right on.
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The same goes here -- I'm thankful for you. You've been very encouraging. It sounds like you've earned the blessing of having no need to worry about anything when it comes to your children and are now able to reap the benefits of your investment.
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Gregory,
I think there are better teachers out there. That is my take. When a person questions someone's salvation simply because of a position on dispensationalism, I think he might be a little arrogant. God will work on him. He appears to be sincere. I think it is dangerous to take the position that one must agree with me if they are to be saved. Give him twenty years. He might come to believe there are more saved than he thinks. God had to straighten out Elijah on that one.
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