How do I share?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by dean burrows on June 18, 2012 at 2:39pm

"APOS'TLE

, n. [L. apostalus; Gr. to send away, to sent.]

A person deputed to execute some important business; but appropriately, a disciple of Christ commissioned to preach the gospel. Twelve persons were selected by Christ for this purpose; and Judas, one of the number, proving an apostate, his place was supplied by Matthias. Acts 1.

The title of apostle is applied to Christ himself, Heb 3. In the primitive ages of the church, other ministers were called apostles, Rom 16; as were persons sent to carry alms from one church to another, Phil 2. This title was also given to persons who first planted the Christian faith. Thus Dionysius of Corinth is called the apostle of France; and the Jesuit Missionaries are called apostles.

Among the Jews, the title was given to officers who were sent into distant provinces, as visitors or commissioners, to see the laws observed.

Apostle, in the Greek liturgy, is a book contained the epistles of St. Paul, printed in the order in which they are to be read in churches, through the year."

Another thought when looking at apostles.  In the meaning of apostle  I have to wonder did God remove the apostle or did the leaders of the church. It seems according to the meaning we could and/or do have apostles.

Permalink Reply by RoyW on June 18, 2012 at 3:19pm

Dean,

I think it can be shown that the requirements for an apostle was to personally be appointed by the resurrected Christ. However, my main concern was equating personal words with the Word of God. I am going to post the same under Chris's question. There is going to be a difference of opinion in this subject but I see nothing that should divide us. Chris has stated that he believes the Word of God is complete. That is good enough for me.

A modern day apostle would probably be more like a missionary. I cannot find any provisions in Scripture for future apostles but can see some provisions for prophets. I am hoping that someone can define what is a prophet.

Permalink Reply by a servant (Chris) on June 18, 2012 at 5:33pm

Roy

   My Brother here is my best way to define a prophet.  The message at the end is Not pointed at you.  Just a general statement.  Please my Brother take no offence.  And, if you do I ask you forgive me.  I have no desire to put Any separation between us. 

Matt 10:41 41 If you receive a prophet as one who speaks for God, you will be given the same reward as a prophet. And if you receive righteous people because of their righteousness, you will be given a reward like theirs. Who is Jesus speaking of? Why, use the word prophet if it were to be no more?
1Cor 12:10 He gives one person the power to perform miracles, and another the ability to prophesy. He gives someone else the ability to discern whether a message is from the Spirit of God or from another spirit. Still another person is given the ability to speak in unknown languages, while another is given the ability to interpret what is being said.
1Cor13:8-10 .8 Prophecy and speaking in unknown languages and special knowledge will become useless. But love will last forever! 9 Now our knowledge is partial and incomplete, and even the gift of prophecy reveals only part of the whole picture! 10 But when the time of perfection comes, these partial things will become useless.
1Cor 14:1 Let love be your highest goal! But you should also desire the special abilities the Spirit gives--especially the ability to prophesy.
1Cor 14:5 I wish you could all speak in tongues, but even more I wish you could all prophesy. For prophecy is greater than speaking in tongues, unless someone interprets what you are saying so that the whole church will be strengthened.
1Cor 14:22 So you see that speaking in tongues is a sign, not for believers, but for unbelievers. Prophecy, however, is for the benefit of believers, not unbelievers.

Here is my biggest problem. I have No Desire to bring attention to myself, and I am very uncomfortable to this point. Yet, here I go, why did Paul speak so much of the Gift of prophecy, if it was already extinct? The question I have is for anyone to show me the Gifts are gone. That we no longer need any of them. Eph 4:11 Now these are the gifts Christ gave to the church: the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, and the pastors and teachers. How is it that we still have the last three but, not the first two. One thing I have always seen is the last three can and are taught and can be learned by man. Not that the order means anything to me. I have and will always respect a Pastor, it is his sheep and he is responsible for them. What I have seen is some have seen false or mistakes by prophets, so lets throw them all away. I have been hurt and even attacked by Pastors, only to see them broken and humbled. Not because of me, but Who i represent. They have come and sought forgiveness. I will Always hold that office above mine, I have to respect authority and order. As I said, “I have No Desire to bring this attention to myself.” It is why I am so shy to share parts of myself. It seems so easy to dismiss, what can only come from Faith. And accept those things that man can learn. We have all seen what some who have a Gift of Faith, done to the Faith message. As if Heaven has ATM’s all over. Do we dismiss the Faith message? No, of course not. Do we have a right to judge men of God? No, we do not. So we either ask for forgiveness, and or forgive those who have gained so much wealth from that message. I have No idea what is right or wrong about that. They as I will have to stand before the Lord and give an account.

Permalink Reply by dean burrows on June 18, 2012 at 9:16pm

hi Roy  I agree The Word of God is complete yet The Word of God is infinite. Is it not possable we still have much to learn and God would give someone the Words to help us learn. Thus being a Word God has given it is ultimately The Word of God.

          I feel the difference here is whether scripture is a complete teaching and yes it is. The Christ Jesus stated the Holy Spirit would come and give much more.  Does The Holy Spirit work today

. By all means I know He does. And He does the work The Christ Jesus said He would do.

          In todays modern church the gifts given Of The Holy Spirit are unfortunately neglected. And I have to say when I see some of the circuses put on by some TV evangilists I understand why. Yet we are not to walk in fear. Especially fear caused by man and his disrespect.

           As I hear Chris I sense he walks in the proper fear. Fear of our Heavenly Father.

           I do not understand where scripture says any Gift of The Holy Spirit has been stopped, removed or no longer used.

           I do understand and have seen how man has quenched the Gifts

. Ultimately quenching The Holy Spirit. A sad mistake with dire consequences.

           And as you say Roy there always will be a difference of opinion.  A difference which can be beautifull in the learning process.  A difference The Lord can use to expand us all.

 

Permalink Reply by RoyW on June 18, 2012 at 10:01pm

I would certainly agree with you.

Permalink Reply by RoyW on June 17, 2012 at 7:59am

Some good advice from  the Apostle Paul:

1 Th 5:19-22  Do not put out the Spirit's fire; 20 do not treat prophecies with contempt. 21 Test everything. Hold on to the good. 22 Avoid every kind of evil. NIV

Permalink Reply by a servant (Chris) on June 18, 2012 at 12:18pm

Roy

   I understand your position.  I respect you my Dear Brother.  Here are a few questions.  Why, is 1 Thess 5:19-21 in there?   19Do not stifle the Holy Spirit. 20 Do not scoff at prophecies, 21but test everything that is said. Hold on to what is good.NLT  Is it better to just remove 1 Cor 14?  I am not asking with disrespect.  Here is what I know.  I was called, i ran from it all, i was brought back, and I have given countless Words to people.  

I believe Our God will reach out to His Children in any way He can.  If one is yielded and will allow the Spirit to use them, to shed Light on a subject, I Know He Will.  When the answer is yes or no, I may not have a verse to back that up.  One thing I hold near and dear to my heart, I will stand after I am able to when I will be in His Presence.  And, i will give an account of all my  actions.  I have no desire to bring attention to myself.  All Goes to Our Lord and Savior.  

As for the Word being complete.  What does that mean really?  I have seen one verse mean one thing to me, the next time same verse mean a different thing.  I Believe the Word to be Complete.  However, I do not believe if a person reads from front to back has a complete understanding.  King Jimmy, NIV, NLT, GWT and all the different translations.  No matter the version a person reads, That Word is Alive. Heb 4:12 For the word of God is alive and powerful. It is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword, cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow. It exposes our innermost thoughts and desires.  Does this mean all at once?  Or, does it mean a process?  I get what you mean by the Word is complete.  Yet, I hold to the Spirit of the Word not the letter.  The mean not just words.  As we grow and mature we see things in a different light.  We have gone through the fire more than a few time.  We are able to see things we did not see before.  If I say i am a prophet, then I see that office different the the Old Testament.  They proclaimed of the coming of Jesus, and other things to come, we have all read them.  The Office now is not to add to the Word, but to confirm the Word.  To shed Light on things other may have a difficult time seeing.  When I have given Words before the whole Church, the Word will confirm almost all things.  Yet, as I shared earlier some Words are short and to the point, yes, no, wait, stop and Pray, humble yourselves and open up to the Spirit.  Yes some of these can be backed up by the Word.  Others are short and do not.  I have always told people to if what I have shared is not confirmed by their spirits or Holy Ghost, then hold on to it and wait.  If none comes let it go.  I am made of clay, yet to many people have spoken Words over me for so many years.  At different functions and a different times.  Few if any knew of what others had shared.

 I am not asking you to believe or not.  We are Brothers in the Lord.  We Love each other, and our goal is to share the Love of Jesus with those who have not heard before, those who need to be reminded, and to any in between.  I will never seek glory for myself.  I always take a chance, A Big Chance, but that is OK with me.  I have been humbled many times, for different reasons, yet they all shared one thing to help me share the Love of the Lord to them.  Again, i always keep in front of me, the knowledge i will give an account of my actions.  To share a Word is both humbling and can be rewarding.  Because, i know what i tell them may change parts of their life, i carry a burden.  A burden that i do give to Jesus.  Yet, a burden all the same.

Roy you are my Brother, and I Love and Respect you. As I shared with you, you will find what you are looking for, it will be clear as day.  We both Love the Lord.  Let it be that we build on what we share in common.  And, on those things we do not see the same, let it be the the Spirit shows us His Will and Way.  

Your Brother in the Lord

Chris

 

Permalink Reply by RoyW on June 18, 2012 at 3:22pm

Chris,

I thought there for a minute we had lost you. Thanks for replying. I mentioned to Dean above that my main problem was equating personal words with the Word of God. I had to say something here as I have gotten real busy but was very glad to see your response. I will respond more later.

Blessings,

Roy

Permalink Reply by a servant (Chris) on June 18, 2012 at 5:37pm

Roy 

   With so many children, and 4 married I was Blessed to see all but, 4 of them.  We have 12 all together, 4 are married.  So yesterday, I did not feel very well, yet was Bless to see them all.  So that is why I was AWOL.  Trust you had a good day yesterday also.  

Lord Bless you my Brother

Chris

Permalink Reply by RoyW on June 19, 2012 at 6:09am

Chris,

I pray you are feeling better today. I only have five children and they keep me going. My wife and I are here in Wyoming awaiting our fourteenth grandchild. We have another one that did not make it to birth which I believe I will see in heaven.

I sensed that you do not like to speak of those who have called themselves apostles or prophets and made some pretty outlandish statements. I believe 1 Thes 5:19 is calling us to not treat prophecy with contempt but to inspect the prophecy to determine its validity as there will be false prophets. There were very definitely prophets here during the early part of the church. It is very difficult to trace that as an office throughout church history. Towards the end of Paul's life, he instructs Timothy and Titus to go to each church and establish pastors (elders) and deacons. The qualifications are given here:

1 Ti 3:2-7
Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, 5 for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church? 6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil. 7 Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil. ESV

If there is an office of the prophet, I believe he would be subject to the same qualifications. I think the love of money would possibly get some. Anyway, some have seen great amounts of money pass through their hands. I think the prophet of today would be somewhat different than the prophet of the Bible especially of the Old Testament. Those prophets would declare the Word of the Lord but would not ask those prophecies to be confirmed by the Word or anything else. I think your description of a personal word would be more in line of what these are. Do you agree? I don't think these are prophecies like were Isaiah or the like or even New Testament prophecies where Scripture may have been disclosed. The gentleman I quoted above or somewhere felt his prophecy was equal with the Word. That is what I am speaking against. It is not equal as the Revelation is complete. There is nothing to be added even though each generation will hopefully come into an understanding of its meaning.

Today, we have these personal words that are being spoken over individuals or even to churches. I quoted 1 Thes 5 and you asked why. We are required to test everything. Hold onto that which is good and basically get rid of the bad. That sounds different to me than a genuine Prophecy given by the Prophet inspired by the Holy Spirit intended to become part of the canon of Scripture. However, it does appear that the elders did test the prophecy to determine if it were to become a part of the canon. Since Scripture is complete, what do we do today? What do we do with those who say they are called to be a prophet? I certainly do not have it all figured out. Many are now calling themselves prophets. It is certainly not for me to judge. This is Christ's church and He will and can do whatever He pleases to do. I am not going to question Him. The instruction to test everything was given to the church. I find myself and people like Amanda doing that. If a prophet predicts that there will be a stock market crash, for instance, next week and to get your money out of the stock market, and it happens, people will tend to listen to what that guy has to say. If he predicts a crash and nothing happens, he will lose his credibility.

I find that many prophecies today are pretty general in such a way that anything could happen and everything would be okay. Today, some are predicting bad economical times ahead but so are many of the economists. God knows what is going to happen in the next hour. His position appears to be that would He do something and not tell His prophets? Of course, I do not believe we should look to the prophet with the intent of getting rich off of the stock market, but a warning should be given. Chris, have you been given a prophecy like this and has it been documented as to have actually happened.

When an individual speaks a "Thus says the Word of the Lord," that should take place. Well, this is long enough for now. I will get some more time later.

Blessings

Permalink Reply by dean burrows on June 19, 2012 at 6:43am

Hi Roy  Another thought> You keep saying the Revelation is complete. I wonder does the  Revelation say how many are going to be saved does the Revelation say how many won't. Reading the various writings on The Book of Revelation I see alot of different ideas and interpretations. In light of this is it not reasonable to consider as the prophets of scripture gave God's Word of direction todays prophets would do the same.

          As for the question of the stock market. The only stock market we are to invest in is The Fathers Kingdom. 

Permalink Reply by RoyW on June 19, 2012 at 7:22am

I would certainly agree with you on the stock market but some might not. As far as the number that are going to be saved, He knows that number but I don't know that He will share that with us. When the number is complete, He will begin what is written. When I use the word, "Revelation," i am not specifically referring to the last Book of the Bible.

I am not against God's prophets giving us direction. What I am saying is that I'm not sure that we are not getting that at this time. What we are getting is pretty much generalization. This might change in the near future and I will not reject this office lest any wonder what I am saying. I am just trying to figure out what the responsibility of the modern day prophet is. You, Chris, Amanda, Char, Elaine and others are not on the opposite side of this spectrum. We are told to test everything and hold on to that which is good. We would be irresponsible to do anything less.

Your comments are very helpful. Please keep up the research.

Blessings.

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• 2
• 3
• 4
• 5
• 6
• …
• 9
• Next ›
• Page