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spiritual warfare and deliverance ministry
Have you ever wondered why it is that so few believers know more than just a little about how to stand against the devil and his demons? For one thing, most churches do not teach about the Baptism of the Holy Spirit or the gifts of the Spirit which is the power of God in our lives to handle spiritual warfare. So, that eliminates most believers right there. But even for those who are taught the Baptism in the HS and spiritual warfare, very few churches have in depth teaching on what spiritual warfare is and how to stand against the enemy. Most church goers in churches that do teach somewhat on this subject, look to the pastor to be the one to run the devil off. But where does it say anywhere in the Bible that only the pastor or the church leaders have the empowerment to fight spiritual forces? Doesn't it say that all believers are empowered to stand against the enemy?
I was once in a church and a man that came to a service was truly demon possessed and began to act-out right in the middle of the church service in front of everyone. Guess what happened? 99% of the church members ran out the back door of the church as fast as they could run lol! I'm laughing because I never forgot that as it made such an impression on me that day. But in seriousness, it's not funny. The question is, why does the average believer know so little about spiritual warfare?
I know some believe that we just need to focus on Jesus and not be concerned with what the devil is doing, that Jesus will take care of him. And I agree that we don't need to be looking for a demon under every bush. When ppl sin it is not the devil that made them do it although many like to joke that it was- no ppl sin when they are drawn away through their own lusts- they choose it.
But on the other hand, we are told in the Word not to be ignorant of the devil and his devises. In my opinion it seems like most believers are woefully under taught how to stand on the Word when it comes to spiritual warfare and I am sure that is just the way satan likes it. I mean most believers are afraid to even utter the name of the devil, it's like they pretend he doesn't even exist. It is one thing not to say his name in order to bring undue attention to him and to instead bring more attention to the Lord. But it is another thing to be afraid of him and not know how to stand in spiritual warfare against him and his demons.
So, I don't think there will be any great knowledge extended in answer to my post since most of us are pretty much in the same boat on this topic, but just wondering if anyone has anything to share as to personal experiences they've had when it comes to spiritual warfare or why they think we as the Church aren't more prepared to stand against the wiles of the enemy?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on
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Sometimes people are just God's wounded lambs and they need others to speak the peace of Jesus into their hearts. One day soon I may stand before God, and He will ask me Why did you say that, Amanda? Why did you do that? Why did you behave that way? I will have to answer Him. I also think others will one day stand before Him, and He will ask them, Do you remember Amanda? I wanted you to speak My peace into her heart. Many have done that. Others have not.
Yes, many times I have run away. Sheep scatter, too.
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Permalink Reply by janet walker on
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amanda,
you can put me in the scattered sheep catagory, but you know every time i wander over that hill, the Lord sends a shepherd to bring me back, so i wonder with confidence that a hill may hide me but the Lord never loses sight of me. At other times, the Lord has me as that shepherd who finds the wandering sheep, that is a much tougher roll than being a wandering sheep, because in rescuing a sheep you have to be very careful with words, tone of voice or message and be committed to the task at hand.
I have seen you as a wandering sheep, but, Amanda, I have also seen you be a shepherd, and i personally think you do a terrific job as a shepherd, you are very careul with your words, you tone of voice or message is that of love and you are committed and persistent in your task.
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Char,
Exactly right. I mentioned defending myself or others defending me as in some cases I do think this is necessary so as not to leave others with the wrong impression who are reading and do not know what is going on. But even when we do feel defending ourselves is necessary it can still be done in love.
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Permalink Reply by Lina on
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Thanks bro Char, I like the last part of your comment; ...So if we know that someone is hurting and lashes out in hurt, we can choose to be hurt too and lash back or choose to love and maybe love will rub off all around one day. As believers we encounter different people with different
problems daily, if we base our responses to their actions on love, we can make a difference. God bless you.
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Nancy,
Thank you for sharing more of your testimony. My heart goes out to you for the hard things you went through and are still healing from. But praise God you are coming along so beautifully. I do understand everything you said. I have had my own share of tough experiences in life, but like I told the others, I was replying to your question about demon activity, not the other reasons ppl are unpleasant or act out. In my case, I have never blamed God for a single thing- I have always run into His arms with the full knowing that He was not my enemy. He rescued me from many earthly enemies. I knew He was on my side. The day I was saved and Jesus stood right before me, I saw pure love when I looked into His face. To this day, one could take everything away from me, abuse me, kill me, but I could never forget the love I saw in Jesus's face and know He is not my enemy. Before I met Jesus I believed in God, but I didn't know who God was. It all made sense the moment I was saved. I have members in my family who are saved but still act-out at times. I forgive them and take it in my stead, because I know their experience is more like yours. I can sometimes discern when someone is being mean because they are hurting and confused thus oppressed vs a person who is possessed- it is a very different thing. Sometimes there is a very thin line between the two, but the difference is apparent to me. Some ppl have strong generational curses on them that hinder them and they need deliverance so they can be in their right mind to choose God or not. I'm always learning. God Bless!
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Permalink Reply by Mary O on
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It's not that other believers aren't strong enough. As believers, we have the full measure of Christ available to us. We all have to grow in the Word. What if I sensed a person didn't have a lot of experience at discerning of spirits? People do get spooked and run out the back door. I think Jane has a good point. Some of the things Jane said struck a chord with me. After I first accepted Jesus as my Lord, I had a demon walk straight at me. I had Christ in me, but I bolted. The more experienced persons in the church knew something had happened. They didn't see it. I was singled out. Once they got me to open up and talk about it, they took me by the hand and said you don't have to be afraid anymore. The warriors and watchmen took the baby warrior by the hand. I had to accept the help and act on the things they shared. I'll never forget it.
I don't run around looking for demons. If you think one is present, it's a good idea to ask God. Maybe I do that because it puts God in charge, and He loves that. In my opinion, it's good to seek God's guidance. Solomon asked for an understanding heart to judge the people. He wanted to discern between good and bad. God was pleased.
God gave Solomon wisdom and very great insight, and a breadth of understanding as measureless as the sand on the seashore. (1 Kings 4:29)
Have you ever tried to cast out a spirit without God's blessing? We have a great example in the Word.
Acts 19...The seven sons of Sceva (the high priest) tried it. The demon overpowered them and they ran away naked and wounded.
If a demon is present, God will tell you if you ask. They don't always act out. Sometimes I say...God what is that? God I don't understand what's going on. Would you please explain it to me? I wait and let God answer.
Love and God bless,
Mary
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Hi Mary,
Oh I see just what you mean. Wasn't sure if this is what you meant or something else. With me, its like the Spirit and I have a running conversation 24/7. So if I encountered a demon whether I asked God verbally what was going on or not, I would be asking it through my spirit without even being conscious of it. I thought you might of been referring to spiritual warfare that deliverance teachers use to make the demon/s identify their presence, their name, rank or what they are up to. Have you ever read anything about or experienced a deliverance ministry? I have been studying the subject at present and it is all fresh in my mind how they confront demons and deal with them. I am working on getting the knowledge to go from something I am reading in books to my own personal experience of discussing this with God in prayer so it becomes my revelation directly from Him. In recent years the Lord called me to a witnessing ministry and the same thing has occurred with that. He goes with me when I witness and puts the words right in my mouth. He has always done this with me to a lesser degree, but because He called me to this ministry He has been giving me revelation knowledge right and left. Like He will show me who I am to witness to, or He will send ppl right to me or He gives me the right timing and words to speak, He allows me to supernaturally know what the person's problem is etc. So, I wondered how deep you are into a knowledge of demon busting lol or deliverance. You know how it is too that when we are lead to get on a subject that God is teaching us, from out of nowhere we start meeting believers who are on the same path as us or who are teachers who can guide us. Before I started this thread, I don't think I had even seen your name at this site, at least not in any of the threads I started. Have enjoyed reading your posts. God Bless you too!
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Hi Jane God bless,
It's hard to follow some of the posts. Sorry about that.
I have done spiritual warfare before. I think it's wonderful you want to develop this area in your walk with the Lord. In your walk, be meek and open to what God can teach you. God may want you to have the experience of having spirits identify themselves. It's like an interrogation. Here's something a little different. I had to think about it for a while. A spirit said it had had enough and would leave. God said no. Think about it. Who's in charge? The name of Jesus Christ is necessary. Who was this spirit to tell the living God what it's going to do now?
For myself, just when I think I've grown all that I can, God will bring up something new. I keep a list because the Word says forget not all His benefits. God knows we won't remember everything.
Love,
Mary
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Hi Mary,
I'm sorry you are having a problem following some of the posts. One thing I had asked you was, does your church walk in spiritual warfare and deliverance, or is this something that you came by on your own? For me, I feel churches I have been in lead up to this point, but never really equipped believers to know their full authority in Christ so they could stand for their families or bind demonic interference and effectively minister to those they came in contact with. I always felt like in my churches there was a little teaching on this subject, but it never went far enough. In each church, the congregation were like spiritual peons who returned each week to occupy a church bench while the pastor and leaders totally ran the show. this kept members dependent on the top ppl instead of dependent on the HS and progressing with their spiritual knowledge. One day it just hit me that this picture was not right. I felt everyone from the pastor on down were stunted. I have more to say about how the church is set up and will start another thread one day soon. But at the time, I was reading my Bible and always thinking why is it that I don't see the unity, strength, miracles and ministry that I saw in the Bible with the early believers? Sure, we learned a lot of good things in church for living the Christian life, but I felt like some of the most important teaching was never achieved. I have felt this way for years. The first thing hat happened was the HS showed me some things about the way the churches are set up that is not biblical. He had me separate myself from church, not from believers, but church. Each day I would be praying. well where do you want me to go to church now Lord? He told me to just seek Him each day until He gave me further instructions. Finally, one day I met another family who was experiencing the same thing. Then, one day I moved out of the state I was living in due to a career change of one of my family members. We all moved together. When we were in the airport getting ready to leave, we encountered a brother from our very first church and he told us the Lord was doing the same thing with him. So, by this time we had plenty of confirmation that we certainly had heard from the Lord and were in His will. Let me back up and say that from our last church to our leaving the state we were in, we had experienced a few home fellowships. These were an improvement over past churches in a number of ways, but still like the churches in other ways. Next, as I continued to search, the term Ecclessia was brought to me. I saw a pattern for the church that my spirit was telling me was correct. It was at this point that we got on the plane and traveled to our new state. I was very excited when we reached our new home because it is a state that was supposed to be a spiritual bedrock. Well to my great surprise and disappointment I did not find it to be so at all. The churches we visited were very dry, obsessed with prosperity teaching and lacking in the anointing of the HS. I thought now what? We opened our own home for home meetings all the while praying we would meet someone who understood Ecclesia, but the whole time we lived in that state not a single person knew what Ecclessia is. It was like a wilderness period for us. It was at this time that the Lord called me to the witnessing ministry. He took me from being the typical believer who is trained to sit in a pew or in a home meeting that still does not flow enough in the spirit right out on the street to witness. Well this was the best thing for me and he taught me one on one out there. And this is where I was brought full circle to the fact that I had been underusing my spiritual gifts and that service for the Lord goes much deeper. All of this is what has brought me to my current thrust for knowledge on spiritual warfare and deliverance. Thank you for your encouragement. I just think I should of arrived here much sooner, but without role models I feel I was delayed. It seems like the Church has been heady with wanting God to bless us instead of the other way around with us blessing Him. There are people ensnared by the enemy everywhere you look. It is only now that I feel I am taking on the role I was meant to have all this time. Like I said, for yrs I felt like there was something majorly wrong with the Church. Not to come back to the Joel Osteen thread, but when I am out witnessing I encounter all kinds of people with quite a few who are in cults. So though I have basic knowledge of the mainline denominational churches and major cults, every time I witness to someone new, I ask them their background and then go home get on the net and see what their group is about. I have been quite amazed to find out that even the tried and true mainline denominations have some very erroneous teachings and traditions- it's like even the regular denominations border on being cults today. Like I said, I thought I knew what was out there, but I have come to find out there was a lot I did not know about what various churches teach. I began to see how these doctrines could easily blind and stunt believers to God's truth. At one point, I looked up the ministry of one of the famous tv preachers that my spirit told me was false. I was shocked but not shocked to find a number of accounts on him that said he owned 2 different multimillion dollar homes, wore $400 designer suits and owned a private jet. It was like another Jim and Tammy Baker story. Yes, his marriage was on the rocks and he had gotten with another mega female preacher. When the Osteen thread was going on, I decided to look him up. What? Articles say he lives in a $1o, 000,000 home?! Then currently on tv, he and his wife are going to be Oprah Winfrey's next interview on her new network. The commercial leaves off with Oprah asking Joel where he got the $$$ to live so lavishly. Well I sure am on the edge of my seat to tune in and hear his explanation. Please know, in no way am I trying to label or criticize anyone- it is the condition of the Church, those in leadership, the weakness of believers to fulfill their spiritual destinies that I am perplexed about. The Church must look like a laughing stock to the world. A whole lot of things seem very suspect and out of order to me. Is it any wonder that the average believer is not on-fire for God and doing His wondrous works? Just wanted to give you and anyone reading a little background on where I have come from and where I would like to be going with my Christian growth. It bothers me, really bothers me that there is so much mediocrity in the Church when there is a whole world of those who are lost and dying out there. How many Christian families or marriages do we know who have got it together and are doing the ministry of the Lord in this world? As far as your current post, as I said I have read some books on deliverance and I get the gist of how it goes. But like most books on any topic, they keep me hanging. There is not enough of an explanation for how to actually perform deliverance. When I started this thread, I said I didn't think many answers would come in. I am happy that there have been a few at least. I don't know what the next step is for me, but I tend to pursue a subject until I get there. I'm just glad as I said that I have my eyes open to all this. I would hate to live a mediocre Christian life. And I feel very strongly that maturity in the Lord is not just for a special group, that we all should be living abundantly and dramatically in order to bring in God's Kingdom.
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Hi Jane God bless you,
Isn't Ecclesia the body of believers whether it's home or in a church building? Not the building, the people. Aren't we one in Christ? Wherever we are gathered isn't it Ecclesia?
In any deliverance I've been involved in, denomination has never been a part of it. God and the Bible. Consider David, he was a ruddy teenager when he was anointed by Samuel. Great place to read. I think I'll read it again this evening. Can you imagine Goliath's disdain when he first saw David. I wonder if he thought...You insult me with this child? Who is this snot-nosed kid? If my memory serves me correctly, Goliath made a comment about feeding David to the fowls of the air. I think, that's why I have to read it this evening. And the shock Goliath and the Philistines experienced when Goliath died? God doesn't look on the appearance. He sees the heart.
Love,
Mary
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Amen, Mary.
Sometimes we can miss the whole point. The Body of Christ is strong and alive today and all the gifts are alive and working today. It is not the place, nor is it methods that matter to God in the New Covenant. Jesus is clear in John 4 regarding this.
Hebrews 10:25 tells us that the church is not to give up meeting together. Someone jumping from church to church because of dissatisfaction with other believers may have a problem within themselves--it may not be everybody else. Surely the Holy Spirit will lead the genuine seeker to the right place, the right body of local believers where it is "home" and no need to continue searching...
I was reading Galatians, Romans (especially chapter 14) and the Book of Hebrews.
Always in our lives Jesus is the center and the focus, not what other believers are doing or not doing that doesn't meet our satisfication.
The church--Body of Christ-- is all about Jesus.
We let the failures of others keep us from experiencing all that God has for us in and through His body--we are not going to find perfection on this earth.
We should not attack the Body of Christ. We attack some members of it--it is the same thing. I know that when I feel something has become a fight and I have to defend myself my natural inclination is to attack back and that is when the flesh wins the battle against the Spirit. But is the other person completely innocent?
We are to bear one another's burdens, not reject one another for having them.
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19 “Sir,” the woman said, “I can see that you are a prophet. 20 Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.”
21 “Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”
25 The woman said, “I know that Messiah” (called Christ) “is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.”
26 Then Jesus declared, “I, the one speaking to you—I am he.”
John 4, NIV.
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