OUR POSITION AS CHRISTIANS

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Permalink Reply by Frederick Thorp on August 21, 2011 at 12:51pm

Jesus did;nt die for our future sins. we can still wind up in hell.

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on August 21, 2011 at 1:30pm

Frederick,

 

So, your salvation from this point forward depends on you being good enough?

 

LT

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Permalink Reply by Sharon Theresa Theil on September 1, 2011 at 8:59am

LT,

 

The issue is not 'being good enough' the issue is Do you believe Jesus enough to believe His Word?

All salvation depends upon the Grace and Mercy of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.  And Jesus Christ, in His Mercy, reveals to us His criteria for salvation:

 

Here are only a few of His criteria:  Please, believe Him for He is True!

 

JOHN 3:7 Jesus answered , Truly, truly, I say unto you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

MATT 10:22 “….and you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved.

MATT 7:21-23 "Not every one who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of the Father who is in heaven.

MATT 5:20 For I say unto you, except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

MATT 18:3 And said, Truly I say unto you, Except you be converted, and become as little children, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

JOHN 3:16-18 For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God sent the Son into the world not to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not condemned; he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

John 3:16, 20-21

For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 20 For every one who does evil hates the light, and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does what is true comes to the light, that it may be clearly seen that his deeds have been wrought in God.

John 5:28-29. "Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."

 

So, the issue is not 'being good enough' the issue is Do you believe Jesus enough to obey His Word?

 

Sharon Theil.

 

Love you my brother-in-Christ!  You know I do! 

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on September 1, 2011 at 11:06am

Sharon,

 

Actually, the question should be "Do we believe Jesus is enough and do we seek to obey/follow Him because we love Him? The obedience follows the relationship and the relationship is enabled by Christ.

 

The love goes both ways, sister-in-Christ.

 

Lord Bless,

LT

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Permalink Reply by ScribeD on September 3, 2011 at 3:40am

Sharon, nice to see you again. You asked:

"... the issue is Do you believe Jesus enough to believe His Word?"

 

Sharon, your first quote is from John, whom Jesus commissioned to give us His words. At the beginning of that book, John opens with his premise in Chapter one for writing the entirety of the book when he says:

¹¹ He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. ¹² Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— ¹³ children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

So, John is saying that your pedigree, your association, your social standing are not enough - what counts is that you are born of God, you are a recipient of the divine calling and you respond with belief - with trusting conviction - that God's Son is sufficient, and you then receive the right to become a child of God. Yet, for those who do that - it is a right - we become children of God.

 

You go on to other scriptures, tying them together as though they are all speaking from the same context, which they are not (not entirely). Context is always the first thing to consider, when you add disparate scripture together. Simply adding statements together, simply because they use similar terms or appear to speak on the same topic is a violation of the principles of scriptural interpretation. Context is always the first rule.

 

Now, Matthew and John are quoting Jesus from very different perspectives. And while the truth is that all of scripture is pertinent to us, it's also important to consider the context to understand how and why it is pertinent. Jesus' purpose of the sermon on the mount was to utterly destroy the pride and pomp of the religious elitists, especially among the Scribes, Pharisees and Sadduccees. You see, they were so arrogant as to believe that they could get away with any manner of corruption, because they were doing good works for God. They simply believed that all they had to do to have their sins washed away was to keep the ceremonial law. What they lacked was a heart change. When Jesus said "the tax-collectors and sinners are entering the Kingdom ahead of you" it was a direct slap in the face and an attack against their belief that they were better than the prostitutes whom they went to for their own pleasure, since they kept the ceremonial laws.

 

But, my point is that it's a mistake to string John 3 together with Matthew 5 as though they go together seamlessly. Now, I believe that you want to stand blamelessly before Jesus on judgment day and that you want to encourage others to do the same. So, I'm not challenging your sincerety or intention. But, let's see what Jesus requires of us for that.

 

So, let's ask some questions:

1. When Jesus said "he that endures to the end will be saved" what was the end he was speaking of?

a) end of all times?

b) end of our self righteousness?

c) end of our lives?

d) all three?

e) other?

 

2. When Jesus said "...he that does the will of my father in heaven...", what is the will of the Father that he speaks of?

a) to live a perfectly righteous life, so as to avoid any future condemnation?

b) to comply with a strict set of religious rituals?

c) to recognize our total depravity and our need to receive forgiveness and the imputed rightousness of the perfectly obedient savior?

d) other?

 

3. You quote Jesus "...except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven". So, how does a person get their righteousness to exceed that of the Scribes and Pharisees? (These guys were dedicated for extreme religious discipline from childhood).

a) Go back to school?

b) Follow a Pharisee for personal training?

c)  Start doing more religious works than the Pharisees?

d) find another option?

 

Well, on this topic, the Apostle Paul made a point to exhaust the self-righteous person in his thorough dissertation on the Gospel and the New Covenant, the Book of Romans, when he said: "...Now we know that whatever The Law says, it says to those who are under The Law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God." (Romans 3:19)

 

So, it is NOT possible for a person to EVER believe they can stand righteously before God, because no one every sought to obey the Law more than the Pharisees and yet the Apostle Paul is saying that the Law's purpose is to SHUT THE MOUTH of every person who thinks they can live by it, and they are yet accountable before God?

 

So.... what is the hope of anyone? How can anyone stand before God?? How can we EVER hope to have the ability to attain a good judgment? As you quoted earlier, in Matthew 7:21, Jesus isn't interested in religious phonies. So... where is the good news?? (Gospel / Evangellion means "good news") How can that be good news???

 

It is good news when you understand that Christ has proclaimed forgiveness of sins. It is good news when you realize that you are accepted, by faith in Christ. It is good news when you realize that the cross was the end of God's judgment for anyone who believes.

 

Where does it say that? Endlessly, Jesus makes this point: That God has enabled him to forgive sins. This is what aggravated the Pharisees and Sadduccees so much about him. From the cross, Jesus pronounced forgiveness on even those who crucified him. In fact, Paul tells us that all of our offenses were nailed to his cross - that Jesus himself even "became sin".

 

Paul gives us this most important point in Romans 8 "... ¹ Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, ² because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you^[a] free from the law of sin and death...." 
 

When we receive Christ, we receive that grant of forgiveness - we receive the imputed righteousness of Christ - by faith - apart from works.

 

You see, the answer to the questions above is that the Father has intended to exhaust our self-righteousness, to utterly destroy our self confident independence. We must receive Christ's forgiveness, we must accept his sacrifice as sufficient to cover ALL of our sins. If we dare believe any less then we are still depending on our own ability and not really seeing how utterly sinful, selfish and weak our flesh is - and how completely HOLY and perfectly Righteous God is. We must have an acceptable sacrifice, we must have an exchange of righteousness, or we stand before God wretched and only in a fearful position of judgment before God's pure light of perfection.

 

Now, most religious people are afraid of admitting that this is what the Gospel teaches. Because they think that this somehow makes sin acceptable and attractive. Nothing could be further from the truth:

a) Galatians points out that the goal of the law of the Spirit of Life is to walk in the spirit, bearing fruits of the spirit as acceptable fruits for God.

b) Colossians points out that there are consequences for sin and God will not allow his Children to prosper in sin.

c) Ephesians points out that Sin grieves the Spirit who has been born in you and your relationship with God is hindered by polluting your soul.

 

So, God's primary purpose for us, his Will for us, first and foremost is to receive Christ. Then, his next purpose is to teach us to walk in dependence on the Spirit for our daily living, so that we can be fruitful. We must endure to the end of dependence on ourselves, we must live a life that knows it is up to God to keep us faithful, because we are dependent on him for every day of every week of every year of the rest of our lives. We can only endure to the end of our lives, and the church can only exist to the end of time, by trusting and depending on the power of the Holy Spirit, in obedience to the Father.

 

So, we can never be fruitful, which depends upon walking in the Spirit, if we believe we are able to produce acceptable righteousness in our own strength. We only produce acceptable fruit when we are depending upon God. Anything else is of the flesh and is unnacceptable to God.

 

So, yes, the question is: do you/we believe the Word? Do you/we accept Jesus' forgiveness. Do you/we receive the Gospel and are you/we willing to be converted from self dependence, or are you/we going to receive the Kingdom like a little child, like one who is dependent upon the Father's plan and dependent on the Savior that the Father has given us?

 

Anything less is self-dependence and is of the flesh.

 

 

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Permalink Reply by ScribeD on August 22, 2011 at 5:05pm

The entire point of the book of Hebrews is to demonstrate that Christ died once and for all time to cover all of sin.That is an unequivocal point of the book of book of Hebrews, to miss that is to completely miss the entire meaning of the book of Hebrews. If Christ did not die for all sin, of all time, we would still have to offer sacrifices for sin. 

 

 

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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on August 23, 2011 at 6:10am

Frederick,

When Jesus died on the cross, none of us were born yet, so all our sins were future ones then, so what has changed that?

 

Can you give us your scriptural reference for your interpretation/understanding of the matter.

 

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Permalink Reply by Rita Cullimore on August 22, 2011 at 5:13am

Amanda,

If we bind something, believing that it will be bound, it will be bound on earth and in heaven. Rebuking Satan for instance. Loosing is the same. Believing on something good. I'm sure when Jesus spoke the words, He was referring to the verses preceding this verse as well as those following. However, I take *whatever* to mean whatever.

The point of my discussion is that God has provided us with many more abilities and powers than we even consider. AS Christians, believers and followers of Christ, we are able to speak healing rather than ask God for it. Think of Peter with the crippled man begging at the gate, 

 ^u“I have no silver and gold, but what I do have I give to you. ^vIn the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, rise up and walk!” ⁷ 

^u  2 Cor. 6:10

^v [ch. 9:34]

The Holy Bible : English Standard Version. Wheaton : Standard Bible Society, 2001, S. Ac 3:7

We hear so much about these abilities given to Apostles but most people don't believe that we all have this ability. What was required was faith on the part of the crippled man and Peter's knowledge that it would be done. When Peter reached out his hand to lift the man up, that was his show of faith that the man could walk. When the man stood up...that was his show of faith.

Peter loosed the man from his crippled state.

Hope this helps explain a little better.

Blessings, Sister,

Rita

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Permalink Reply by journeyman on August 22, 2011 at 3:31pm

http://www.gotquestions.org/binding-loosing.html

Hope I am helping. I know I am learning.

 

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Permalink Reply by ScribeD on August 22, 2011 at 5:03pm

The entire point of the book of Hebrews is to demonstrate that Christ died once and for all time to cover all of sin. That is an unequivocal point of the book of book of Hebrews, to miss that is to completely miss the entire meaning of the book of Hebrews. If Christ did not die for all sin, of all time, we would still have to offer sacrifices for sin. 

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Rita Cullimore on August 23, 2011 at 5:03am

Amanda,

Satan doesn't have any power over me. If he attacks me, I call on Someone bigger than him...Jesus. So far He's always come through for me and I believe He will continue to come through for me. When I pray, I rarely speak for what I want or need, Jesus already knows what I need. I speak for what others need. If I have a financial need, I remind Jesus. In a day or two, along comes a check for my services that was outstanding. If my head aches, I speak to the pain and tell it there isn't any room for it and it leaves. I speak wellness on myself and wellness it is.

When I hear one of my children or friends say they are ill, I speak wellness on them. With that, they have to believe in that wellness for themselves. Really believe it, not just say they believe it. When they are broke, I speak financial blessing on them. Receiving from God means first and foremost that His Word is true. Receiving from God means belief on His Word...all of them.

We build our faith through the study of God's Word. His Word is our strength.

Thanks LT and Scribe for your input.

Frederick, You need to hope Christ died for future sins because He isn't going to be crucified again.

Scribe, I love the Book of Hebrews and haven't nearly finish all of studying it. Roman is another of my favorites. I have kinda been going back and forth with them. Maybe one day I'll finish but I'm not going to hurry.

 

Blessings,

Rita

 

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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on August 23, 2011 at 6:41am

Beloved Rita,

 

I have some observations.

 

>>Of course, we still have to deal with the effects of sin, but we are still given the authority over sickness, health, wealth or a form of comfort for each of us.

 

We have the authority to act according to the leading of the Holy Spirit in all situations. Paul could have prayed for Timothy's infermity or his own and I am sure He did prayed for Timothy and his own health issues and God who has the last word in such matters responded according to His perfect will for them at that time. As Childrens of God we have authority in Christ, but God has the last word in all matters.

 

>>Whatever we bind on earth will be bound in Heaven and whatever we loose on earth will be loosed in Heaven. 

In context these verses mean the following:

18. What things soever you shall bind. He now repeats the same words which he had formerly used, (Matthew 16:19,) but in a different sense; for there he intended to maintain their authority in doctrine, but here he appoints discipline, which is an appendage to doctrine. There Christ declared that the preaching of the Gospel would not be without effect, but that the odor of it would either be life-giving or deadly, (2 Corinthians 2:15,2 Corinthians 16: here he affirms that, though wicked men ridicule the judgment of the Church, it will not be ineffectual. We must attend to this distinction, that there our Lord's discourse relates to the preached word, but here to public censures and discipline. Let the reader go to that passage for the import of the metaphor, binding and loosing. 

 

The substance of it is this: Whoever, after committing a crime, humbly confesses his fault, and entreats the Church to forgive him, is absolved not only by men, but by God himself; and, on the other hand, whoever treats with ridicule the reproofs and threatenings of the Church, if he is condemned by her, the decision which men have given will be ratified in heaven. If it be objected, that in this way God is made a sort of petty judge, who concurs in the sentence of mortal men, the reply is at hand. For when Christ maintains the authority of his Church, he does not diminish his own power or that of his Father, but, on the contrary, supports the majesty of his word. As in the former case (Matthew 16:19) he did not intend to confirm indiscriminately every kind of doctrine, but only that which had proceeded out of his mouth, so neither does he say in this place that every kind of decision will be approved and ratified, but only that in which he presides, and that too not only by his Spirit, but by his word. Hence it follows, that men do no injury to the authority of God, when they pronounce nothing but what comes from his mouth, and only endeavor faithfully to execute what he has commanded. For, though Christ alone is the Judge of the world, yet he chooses to have ministers to proclaim his word. Besides, he wishes that his own decision should be pronounced by the Church; and thus he takes nothing from his own authority by employing the ministry of men, but it is Himself alone that looses and binds

 

But here a question arises. Since the Church endures many hypocrites, and likewise absolves (or looses) many whose professions of repentance are hypocritical, does it follow that such persons will be absolved (or loosed) in heaven? I reply, the discourse is addressed to those only who are truly and sincerely reconciled to God/Church. For Christ, wishing to administer comfort to trembling consciences, and to relieve them from fear, declares that any who may have offended are freed from guilt in the sight of God, provided that they be reconciled to the Church For he has appointed this as the pledge of heavenly grace, which has no reference to hypocrites, who pervert the proper use of reconciliation. Calvin

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