Word of God (the Bible)

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Permalink Reply by Colby on August 2, 2013 at 1:01am

LT,

 

What you have written is in complete accord with my understanding of the close relationship between the Holy Scripture and the person of Jesus Christ.  

God reveals himself to humanity in both.  Scripture is the Word inspired; Christ is the Word (Logos)  incarnated.  They are mutually illuminating and reinforcing.  By his life and teachings, which was in accord with biblical teachings, Jesus gave us a correct understanding of the Scripture.  Likewise, the Scriptures point to Jesus as the Son of God, the promised Messiah, our Lord and Savior.  

Jesus believed that the Scripture has its origin in God; that the Bible contains the words of God the Father as recorded by holy men inspired by the Holy Spirit.  He frequently quoted from the Old Testament.  More to the point, Jesus referred to the Old Testament as bearing witness to his messianic mission.  In John 10:35, he gives a clear affirmation of Scripture when he declares, "and the Scripture cannot be broken).  The Apostle Paul gives a strong and clear affirmation of the Bible's divine origin in 2 Timothy 3:16: "All Scripture is God-breathed... ."

The Bible is the Word of God, reliable and authoritative in that its writings were inspired by the Holy Spirit.  God reveals his plan of salvation for us in the Scriptures.  Accordingly, the Bible is our authority in all matters of faith, worship and behavior.  Reading the Bible is profitable because it can help deepen our relationship with God and help us to apply his principles in our daily lives.

But, make no mistake: The Bible is not God.  The Bible does not reveal everything about God. We are not to worship the Bible.  We worship the God who "breathed" the words of Scripture. Take the Pharisees of Jesus' day, for example.  They were guilty of Bible worship.  They knew the Scriptures inside out and had them committed to memory.  But Jesus called them "hypocrites," saying "you know neither me nor my Father."  In other words, the Pharisees knew the Bible but not God (its author and publisher).

John 20:30-31 makes the point nicely: "But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have eternal life in his name."  You summed it up nicely with these words: "The key is understanding the purpose of the Bible. We are blessed to have it, but Jesus is our goal and our Savior. I do not see the Bible and Jesus as equal. That does not diminish the Word of God. Both are good, but one is the Savior and the other is the tool used to guide us to Him and into a living relationship with Him."

If every Bible you own was stolen and access to any other Bible denied would you be lost or still in a living relationship with Jesus?

I would remain in a living relationship with Jesus.

On the other side of the coin does owning a Bible assure one is saved?  

No.  I would refer you to my remarks about the Pharisees.

Grace, peace and love,

Colby 

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Permalink Reply by Amanda on August 2, 2013 at 7:28am

There is a difference between the Scriptures, which are written and were spoken by God, and the Word of God which is Christ Jesus. But I've always understood that the written word is His spoken word.

In his right hand he held seven stars, from his mouth came a sharp two-edged sword, and his face was like the sun shining in full strength.
(Revelation 1:16, ESV)

For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. (Hebrews 4:12, ESV.)

How important is the bible? Can we separate Jesus from it? My biggest question is -- Can we reject it without rejecting Him?

The bible is vital to my life and my faith. Staying in the Word is a very big part of me abiding in Christ. I don't worship the bible but God speaks to me through the written words.

When I say I depend on the bible, what I mean is I rely on the way God uses it to help me grow spiritually for it contains the counsel, wisdom, and guidance that Christians need. Since it is God's word and since Jesus is the bread of life, His words feed us and help us grow.

I understand that many don't have a bible but not all of them because they have rejected one as being God's Word. I also understand it's not for me to judge others but I know if I were to end up rejecting the bible then Holy Spirit would be grieved with me.

If all my bibles were taken from me against my will, I trust that God would give me the grace to endure it and would continue holding me in the palm of His hand for I believe in eternal security. But if I reject the bible at my will, I believe it would be a form of rejection of God.

I do hunger and thirst to read it for it helps me grow in knowledge and wisdom in Him. We are to abide in Christ. It's one of the ways I abide along with church and praying and seeking what pleases The Lord. I'm still learning. So if I'm too dependent upon the bible, I trust God will forgive me and show me and help me become stronger without needing it so much.

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on August 2, 2013 at 1:15pm

Amanda,

 

Can we separate Jesus from it?

I would say yes, because they are not one in the same. The spoken and recorded Word comes from God whereas Jesus is God. Both are true and wonderful, but one is greater than the other. The Holy Spirit down through the ages chose what to reveal, all important, but not all revealed. In fact much of what He revealed came in pieces over time. Even now we have all we need, but not all that ever was or will be (John 20:30-31). Again, I am not speaking against the Word by any means, but simply acknowledging that it is not Jesus Himself, but rather subject to Him. That same Word has been given to reveal Jesus to us. Just like when we say that we are not to have faith in faith, but rather faith in Jesus we mean that our hope and trust is in Him. We trust that our faith (faith given by Him) is sufficient to be saved, but that salvation is in Him. Likewise, we do not state we have faith in the Word (Bible) to save us, but trust what the Word says regarding Jesus, the one in Whom our faith is placed and Who died for us.

 

Can we reject it without rejecting Him?

It depends on what is meant by “reject it.” If we look at the two camps, Word of God and the word about God we find that neither rejects the Bible, but rather the difference is found in what they believe about the Bible’s origin and its trustworthiness. Now if one simply rejects the Bible outright you would have to question whether they are saved, because in essence they are denying the gospel (because this is where we find the gospel message) and are missing the pathway God has chosen to reveal Himself for salvation. To break it down any further and look into the heart of an is beyond my ability. I only know that salvation requires the gospel message that brings us to repentance and then a faith that rests on Jesus only for salvation.

 

When I say I depend on the bible, what I mean is I rely on the way God uses it to help me grow spiritually for it contains the counsel, wisdom, and guidance that Christians need. Since it is God's word and since Jesus is the bread of life, His words feed us and help us grow.

This is all true and you ought to thank the Lord that you have His Word to guide you.

 

If all my bibles were taken from me against my will, I trust that God would give me the grace to endure it and would continue holding me in the palm of His hand for I believe in eternal security. But if I reject the bible at my will, I believe it would be a form of rejection of God.

Nowhere, as far as I can remember, in what I have brought forth have I mentioned rejecting the Bible, except in my response to you in this post just above. I am not talking about rejecting it, but simply understanding its place. It is divinely inspired and is the given Word of God, but it is not Jesus. It reveals and leads us to Jesus as it fulfills its purpose working in harmony with the Holy Spirit. What is a person hears the basic gospel message in a remote part of the world and the person receives Jesus as their Savior. Shortly thereafter the missionary dies and no one else comes to this remote area during that person’s life and they eventually die. Were they any less saved than a person who received Jesus and who owned a Bible reading it everyday for 50 years?

 

 So if I'm too dependent upon the bible, I trust God will forgive me and show me and help me become stronger without needing it so much.

Ultimately you are dependent on Jesus and that was revealed to you by the Bible and the Holy Spirit. You are blessed to have a Bible that will enable you to learn more about Him as well as learn from the Bible how to live a life that is pleasing to Him, seeking to do so because you love Him. But, even here we are “using the Bible” to teach us to please Jesus. No matter what I say, in the end, every time, it will follow the trail to Jesus. Jesus is our goal and the Bible is a tool given by God to guide us to Him.

 

Please use you Bible, hold it close, believe what it says, follow its teachings but always remember that we don’t do it to please the Bible, but rather to please Jesus.

 

Lord Bless,

LT

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Permalink Reply by Amanda on August 2, 2013 at 2:13pm

LT,

I'm not able to umderstand what you have said for how we can separate God's Word from God's Son. I understand Who Jesus is and I understand what His words are and that the bible is God's Word. I don't understand how we can separate Jesus from the teachings in the bible. It is all about Jesus. I understand it is not Jesus but is about Jesus and therefore the two (Jesus and His teachings) are inseparable as I see and understand it. 

My faith isn't in the bible for salvation. The bible contains the message of faith and Jesus is the sower (and He speaks His Word through pastors and teachers and evangelists, who also sow, so that we may hear it and also we may read it) but according to the parable of the sower, the seed is the message of faith. It is planted in our hearts and begins to grow. 

I have faith because Jesus has sown His Word in my heart. I love Jesus and His words. 

Does it mean I have too much of my faith built on the Word and I should really not be that dependent on the bible? I asked this in the other discussion, and I still don't know. I trust Holy Spirit will convict me. 

I have never wanted to please the bible. I have never tried to please the bible. I do seek to please Jesus. I have the desire but know I fail in many ways. 

As far as rejecting the bible, I was looking at rejection of it as including those who only see it as a word about God and not as the Word of God. Thank you for the explanation. I was viewing the failure to accept it as the Word of God as a rejection just as bad as simply rejecting it outright. If I begin to see it as only a word about God, then I understand now that I'm not rejecting God in anyway. I do sometimes struggle with it. The minister at my church says there are no contradictions, just God giving us more information in certain passages. I've told myself that the message remains the same even though some things get lost in translation. God knows how to preserve the integrity of His Word. So I'm trusting God.

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on August 2, 2013 at 2:27pm

Amanda,

 

Jesus is more than the Bible and above the recorded Word, even though it is His Word and flows from Him. The words will never fail or be broken, but they were given for a purpose. The Bible communicates a message and that message is all about Jesus. On the other hand the Bible would be nothing without Jesus (and the Holy Spirit).

One can, and should, trust the Bible. I have never negated that, but what are we trusting the Bible for? We trust its message about the person and work of Jesus. The Bible tells us that the demons believe that there is one God and shudder (James 1:19). We must go beyond the written Word and experience the person that the Word reveals ... Jesus Christ.

 

Lord Bless,

LT

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on August 2, 2013 at 1:24pm

Michelle,

Yes, it is all about Him and all things exists because of Him and are held together by Him. 

 

Just a couple of thoughts to go along with the following comment:

Yes, Jesus is the Saviour and the Bible exists because of Him.  We need Jesus FIRST and the Bible is what we read to understand Who He Is and what He's done for us. 

It is interesting how God has so woven all together. For instance, we need the gospel (written or spoken word - Rom. 1014-17) working in harmony with the Holy Spirit in order for us to see Jesus and then respond to Him through repentance and faith in order to be saved (Acts 2:38; Eph. 2:8-9). We need a faith in Him before we can ever do the works we have been called to (Eph. 2:10) and in order to please Him (Heb. 11:6). The Bible (written or spoken) is that guide book, road map, instruction manual that God has given to mankind. This roadmap is a tool of GOd to guide us to Jesus and to teach us how to live for Jesus, but in the end of the day it is all about Jesus. Hallelujah!!!

There is an old saying that ties in with what you shared about the Bible on the table ... "What is the shelf life of a Bible? If it is on the shelf it is not giving life."

Lord Bless,

LT

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on August 2, 2013 at 2:08pm

I wish I could take credit for it, but then I am reminded of a Tozer quote, knowing you like Tozer.

"God can use anyone who does not care who gets the credit." (I think that is verbatim, but am working off of memory)

 

Lord Bless,

LT

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Permalink Reply by RoyW on August 2, 2013 at 8:54am

It is impossible to separate God and His Word. The same is with us. We are what we think or the potential of that. We speak from our hearts. We are not these earthly bodies in which we temporarily live. We will not be judged by our stature, our looks, our positions in life; we will be judged by who we are. We are that which is inside of us and that which is inside will eventually come out. We are imperfect and so we sometimes speak things that are not representative of whom we really are. However, God is perfect and everything He speaks is perfect. No untrue statement could ever part from His mouth. 

Jesus is sometimes called the Word of God. He is the living expression of God. The Bible is a written Word that we have been given. We should never diminish its importance. Man would be lost without it. However, it can never be taken away. If all the Bibles on the earth were burned, His Word would remain. His Word is indestructible. His Word is truth and truth is indestructible. It can never be removed. 

Of course I am not speaking of sixty-six books that are written in ink on paper. However, that Book is divinely inspired by God and so is part of Him. He has given us His Word concerning much about Himself. He has revealed Himself to us by this Book. God lives through His Word. His Word is alive. It is God Himself. 

I agree that the Bible is not the 4th person of the godhead. However, it is certainly a representation of the Godhead wholly inspired by God the Spirit to give an exact representation of Himself to us. It becomes a very important part of our relationship with God. It is Who God is. Fortunately, we will never have to choose between God and the Bible. The Bible is with us forever. Burn them all and it still exists. His Word will never ever pass away. It is eternal. The Bible was written over a period of about fourteen hundred plus years through forty plus human instruments. What is in it, however, is eternal. 

I love my Bible even though I may have to change versions. lol

Whatever you get, get Wisdom. Through wisdom God laid the foundations of this universe. When God speaks, it is power, it is truth, it is supernatural, it is perfect. We could go on and on about His Word. We will never tire of speaking of His Word. 

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on August 2, 2013 at 2:05pm

Roy,

 

It is impossible to separate God and His Word ... However, God is perfect and everything He speaks is perfect. No untrue statement could ever part from His mouth.

I am not sure I fully agree on the very first part, or maybe I am misunderstanding you. It really depends on what you mean by separate. His Word is always true, but He is far more than His given Word (Spoken and/or recorded). His Word is given with a purpose, but it in of itself does not make up God. His word(s) flow from Who He is. What is the purpose of the Bible, that which the Holy Spirit inspired mean to record? I submit that it is about revealing Jesus and the pathway to salvation in Jesus (John 20:30-31 and 1 John 5:13).

 

We should never diminish its importance. Man would be lost without it. However, it can never be taken away. If all the Bibles on the earth were burned, His Word would remain. His Word is indestructible. His Word is truth and truth is indestructible. It can never be removed. 

Amen.

 

Of course I am not speaking of sixty-six books that are written in ink on paper. However, that Book is divinely inspired by God and so is part of Him. He has given us His Word concerning much about Himself. He has revealed Himself to us by this Book. God lives through His Word. His Word is alive. It is God Himself.

Though we can make an argument for what you have said to be true, there is on stark reality that persists. The Word (spoken and written) was given to reveal and draw us to Jesus. The focus is not the Word, but the one to Whom the Word points. His Word is a tool, in this context, always leading us to Himself.

 

I agree that the Bible is not the 4th person of the godhead. ... What is in it, however, is eternal. 

It has an eternal purpose, but as you stated it is not the 4^th person of the godhead. It is good, godly and eternal. My point i all of this is to not lessen the Word of God (written and spoken), but to have us understand its place in God’s great work. Its great purpose is to lead to Jesus and direct us on how we can live to please Him.

 

Whatever you get, get Wisdom. Through wisdom God laid the foundations of this universe. When God speaks, it is power, it is truth, it is supernatural, it is perfect. We could go on and on about His Word. We will never tire of speaking of His Word. 

Amen. I will add one thing (go figure :-). God’s Word spoken by God is power, because He is the source of all true power. The written Word is empowered in man through the working of the Holy Spirit. When we share the gospel message we do not rely only on the text (I know you know this, but state it for clarity for those who will read this), but we also trust the Holy Spirit to work in the hearer of the gospel message. Thus, again, for me it is the Word of God (written or spoken) working in harmony with the Holy Spirit that brings forth change by the power of God. This is exemplified by Jesus’ instructions for the disciples to wait on the coming of the Holy Spirit in power.

 

Lord Bless,

LT

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Permalink Reply by Charles Burwell on August 2, 2013 at 2:06pm

LT

 

From one of my most read books in the bible(Hebrews), especially chapter 4 12-16  we see the word of God and Jesus so intertwined that it can be difficult to understand when one is being spoken of and when the other is.

 

verse 12 speaks of the word of God being ' living and active' and a ' descerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart'.

     Then verse 13 speaks of nothing being hidden from"His" sight.

 

 

I realize that you are refering( at least I assume) to the written word( the bible) but sometimes it's hard to separate the 2 in my mind.  Anyhow, I believe that if all of the writtten word of God in the entire world could be destroyed that the truths contained in them would not be deminished one iota.  Therefore whether we possess the written word of God or not we can still possess the 'living Word of God' and would therefore suffer no lost in our relationship to Christ Jesus.

 

As far 'owning a bible an assurance of salvation' . If this were true I would have been saved at a very early age instead of when I was. Owning a bible does not give us any more assurance of salvation than not owning a bible would diminish our salvation. In other words , no effect.

 

Just my opinions God bless

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on August 2, 2013 at 2:18pm

Charles,

Thanks for the input. I am not attempting to diminish the Word of God (written and spoken) in any way. It is important, but it is not Jesus Himself. The Word (written and spoken) flow from God and are given for a purpose and stand forever. All that God does, including that which He says, has a purpose. The basic purpose of the Bible (written Word) is to reveal Jesus, guide us to Him (repent and receive), and then teach us to live to please Him because we love Him. In Hebrews 4:12 we see that it has a purpose. If we read the rest of chapter 4 we find that it is pointing to Jesus and our faith in Him.

 

Lord Bless,
LT

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on August 2, 2013 at 2:52pm

Let's come at this from another angle.

 

Do we have faith in the Word of God (spoken or written) or is our faith in the One who spoke it, and had it recorded? This is not semantics, at least to me. God speaking is an action that flows from His being. All of His actions have purpose. We can dissect what is recorded some, such as God spoke at creation and brought about each aspect recorded in Genesis 1. The basic purpose of that action was to create. The spoken word brought about creation, but the power was in the spoken word because of who spoke it and thus our faith always is directed to Him. The recorded Word on creation is to reveal that God created, but I still must trust God to believe it is true (again recognizing that the Holy Spirit is a t work in this ability to believe). When we look at the compilation of the Bible as a whole it is all about God's plan in and through the life and work of Jesus from creation to redemption to restoration, etc. The purpose of the Bible is to reveal Jesus, lead us to Him (repentance and faith), and to guide us to live to please Him because we love Him.

 

Lord Bless,

LT

 

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