All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
When was the Holy Spirit Given?
This question came up in my reading of Psalms, where in 51:11, David says: Do not cast me from your presence or take your Holy Spirit from me.
So I looked up information on this:
John 7:39
The Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.
Acts 1:16
... which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake....
Luke 1:15, 41, 67
He [John the Baptist] shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. (v.15)
Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost. (v.41)
Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost. (v.67)
Now there's a whole lot more in both new and old, but this gives an idea of what I'm questioning.
So I thought, perhaps the Holy Spirit was there, but the "infilling" was what happened in the N.T. But then I go back to John 7:39.
I can't seem to find enough online to explain this and was wondering if anyone had any insight into what this might mean.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Carla on
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Roy, you have written a beautiful testimony of The Holy Spirit's goodness and faithfulness. I pray this will help many to recognize His work in our hearts and in our lives. Blessings.
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Permalink Reply by Richard L. Broch, Sr. on
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Dear Seek Ye First......... Please accept a big old-fashioned Christian cyberspace hug............
Now, let's deal with - what are the desires of the flesh?
Flesh (Greek, sarx" As implying sinfulness, proneness to sin, the carnal nature, the seat of carnal appetites and desires, of sinful passions and affections, whether physical or moral.
We could sum sarx up as the fallen world. I like Amanda's application about us living in the fallen world.
This milieu is where Christ wants us. Please compare His priestly prayer, John Chapter 17, verses 14 & 15, "I have given them Thy word; and the world has hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
I do not ask Thee to take them out of the world, but to keep them from the evil one."
My interpretation of this passage is - Yes! God wants us to stay here with all the sin, evil, and sorrows. This is The Promised Land......just like when the children of Israel crossed the Jordan River into the promised land......when God led them out of the bondage of Egypt.......their problems and hardships continued in the promised land....they had to clean it out, starting at Jericho. And they were alright as long as they were faithful.
In the same manner, Jesus leads people out of the bondage of sin from His ministry on the cross. Where do we go when saved? We join the Kingdom of God (or Kingdom of Heaven - samey same). What do we do there? Just hang out, living the "good life", collecting all our miracles?? NO! We join the on-going war that's been raging on since paradise-lost in the Garden of Eden.
The last part of Jesus's prayer includes that God will not let Satan snatch Christians out of His hand.
Now, Ms. Seek, about praying for guidance, faith, stress removal, etc.
The Holy Spirit's responsibility(and He is ALWAYS indwelling your temple(I Corinthians 6:19-20...please read) His responsibility is to produce the nine fruit of the Spirit (Galatians, 5:22-23...please read). But, here's the deal: The believer has to supply the ground for the Spirit to be able to produce.
How do we do that? By not allowing all the sin, evil, and sorrows from the world (where we live) to block the Holy Spirit's work in our temple......even if we have to cleanse our temple, as Jesus did - twice. Is all this easy? Ask anybody who's quit smoking...drugs...alcohol ....pornography...or any addiction. Or, sustained bullying, physical or mental abuse, desertion, or any other painful experience.
God will help us........if we do our share by putting on the armor that He has already issued us (Ephesians 6).
Remember - It's all about God....not us.
And a person named Ceeseley said, " The objective of this life is not this life".
Grace and Peace.
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Permalink Reply by Seek on
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Problem is, I can put the armor on and fight and fight until I finally lose the battle due to being just plain exhausted physically and mentally. Then what?
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on
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Seek,
You wrote:
"Yup Amanda. That's what I hate about the depression so much. All the negative thoughts seem to override everything and I'm so exhausted from fighting and exhausted even from those thoughts, which is why I think I'm so tired so often. And I've been more and more positive, so when that comes on and I fall into that negative well, I can't stand it. And I can't seem to claw my way out. I keep thinking of Joseph being PUSHED into a pit, not because of anything he did. But he couldn't get out of the pit. Someone had to help him out of it."
This is really hard for you. I hope you are able to see that many are around you, helping you. I feel some of what you feel even though I'm personally not going through your experience. I can only help you by prayers and by sharing some about my own experience in an effort to not just spout out platitudes at you but to use my own words from my heart.
I believe this wild roller coaster of emotions is why I'd rather not feel my feelings. It's better not to feel anything than to feel all of that sorrow and frustration and pain that is hitting you at times like this one. I couldn't stand it either. I attempted to end it all. Since then, I've coped by stuffing all those feelings, and it has been a very slow process of beginning to allow myself to feel again. The depression serves as a way of coping until little by little I begin to feel my feelings in doses that are manageable.
What you're experiencing seems unmanageable but your depression doesn't appear to be the same as mine. You are not using depression to cope but are fighting its onslaught.
I can't let go of mine because that is to take away my coping mechanism, and I'm sure all of those feelings and thoughts, if fully experienced would make me end my life. I hold onto it, hoping one day I'll no longer need it. God is with me on this journey.
Yes, I need a more effective way of coping, but, for now, depression has helped me cope. Pushing and forcing myself to overcome my depression and isolation doesn't help me but makes me feel worse for some reason but people tell me it's what I must do, but I think what I need to overcome is something else and then the depression will go away, too. The something else is a mixture of several things, one being lies that I've believed and still believe but didn't know they are lies. While Satan isn't behind my depression, this other stuff is a different story.
I think what you need to overcome is something else, too, and then this stuff will stop. Just my thoughts.
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Yeah, ours is a different form. I've not really been prone to depression like this. I mean, I've been depressed...everyone has at some point or another. But these are come and go. And they leave me exhausted for several days afterward from all the crying perhaps. I am an emotional wreck when there because of all the negative thoughts and hopeless feelings. Counselor does tend to think it's from the past and is sure he will be able to help me with it.
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Dear Seek, (I prefer Char),
No, as a Christian you don't have to smile all the time.........Was Jesus smiling the times He cleansed the temple?....When He was praying in Gethsemane?......When He was carrying His cross?....When He was on the cross? How about Peter, during his denials?...and on and on.......
Sis, let's go to Philippians, Chapter 2, 12b-15, "............work out your salvation with fear and trembling;
for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
Do all things without grumbling or disputing,
that you may prove yourselves to be blameless and innocent, children of God above reproach in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you appear as lights in the world."(N.A.S.B.).
O.K. Ms. Char, 12b ="work out your salvation"....present imperative tense, means continuously, repeatedly......"with fear and trembling"......deep reverence, with every bit of strength you can exert.
Verse 13 = "for it is God who is at work in you"...... The Holy Spirit is doing battle with your old baggage of flesh left over from your former life......"for His good pleasure" The Holy Spirit wants to help you clean up your act, so that He can produce His nine fruit in your heart.
Verse 14 = We all face challenges daily at work, at home, in our families, in the neighborhood, and yes, maybe at church......God says - don't lash back, hold your temper, bite your tongue,.......whatever it takes to do verse 14.
Verse 15 = We are to be shining lights for God (not necessarily ourselves) in this dark dismal world (where God wants us to be witnesses)And there aren't as many of us as there used to be..........God wants us to stand out from the crowd.
If I may, a kind of humorous illustration for verse 15............
My day job in Mesa, Arizona is with a care and rehabilitation center serving hundreds of adults who have developmental disabilities and/or serious mental illness. I'm a trainer for the staff who work with these individuals.
We have a day program in the main building which accommodates about 60 individuals daily, with about 15 staff tending to them. Well, a few years ago, several of the individuals made it known that they wanted to wear pictured I.D. badges like the staff wear. So permission was granted to make these badges for everybody.
After about a week, the manager started getting complaints from visitors and parents............what do you think the problem was???.............They couldn't tell who was staff and who were individuals.
My point to all this..........we, as believers, should not look like, sound like, behave like, or think like, all the unbelievers around us. That's Why God wants us to be "above reproach in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation" He wants us to be individual beacons of light to the world...........so people can tell the difference between us.
One last thought, Sis, Romans 6:6, "knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, that our body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin;"
Death by crucifixion is a s-l-o-w- death. That's why the Romans liked it. Samey same with our sins as they were crucified with our old self........these old sins die slowly......might even take years.....so sometimes we need to be more patient.
Grace and Peace.
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Well it has been taking me years Richard, and it's that slowness that is excruciating and causing me to lapse into depression those times. And it's come to such a point that I simply cannot stand it any longer. I'm just standing right now on having heard God tell me last week that the depression was ending. I know it tried to take hold of me all day a few days ago, but it didn't sink in bad this time. And I have had a few rotten days here lately and am going to try and put up a blog on that, and what I got from it.
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Permalink Reply by a servant (Chris) on
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Sis
You see the "slowness that is excruciating and causing me to lapse into depression those times," as evidence of failures. They are not! They are evidence of one that is "working out their faith." You are getting stronger and more able in you walk with The Lord. Cement or concrete take time to cure; to harden. You cannot hurry the process. Even if you do not prepare things in the beginning, things can go terribly wrong.
You are doing Great. You are doing things better than ever. This shows His Wisdom and His Presence working in you. 21 It is God Who enables us, along with you, to stand firm for Christ. He has commissioned us, 22 and He has identified us as His Own by placing The Holy Spirit in our hearts as the first installment that guarantees everything He has promised us. 2Cor 1:21-22
To you question, I have shared my story before. How I accepted Jesus and was Baptized in The Spirit all in one motion. It took study time before any of it happened. But, they followed the examples in The Word. 38 The one who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, will have streams of living water flow from deep within him.” 39 He said this about the Spirit. Those who believed in Jesus were going to receive the Spirit, for the Spirit had not yet been received because Jesus had not yet been glorified.John 7:38-39
These verses explain in part for me, at times of great or small difficulties. 4 Indeed, we groan while we are in this tent, burdened as we are, because we do not want to be unclothed but clothed, so that mortality may be swallowed up by life. 5 And the One who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave us the Spirit as a down payment. 6 So, we are always confident and know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight, 2Cor 5:4-7
And the last one I will share are these even though the entire chapter tells it best. We train for others. We go through things so we are able to share, not just see for ourselves. God is beyond what we can even imagine. He has all of this worked out. He what us to Trust Him and Believe in Jesus. As well as, yield to The Spirit. That is the best way I can describe how to operate in The Spirit. Sorry the rest is beyond my pay-grade at this time. 12 for the training of the saints in the work of ministry, to build up the body of Christ, 13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of God’s Son, growing into a mature man with a stature measured by Christ’s fullness. Eph 4:12-13
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It's not actually that I see them as failures. But it's all the thoughts that I hate having anymore and they....for lack of a better word I guess...irritate me. I want healed because I cringe at my own reactions to things often and I just can't stand being like this, can't stand having those depressive bouts and the thoughts that assault me during them. I find that part of it excruciating and am wanting healing faster because I just don't want anymore of this prolonged sadness and grief and depression.
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