All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
When was the Holy Spirit Given?
This question came up in my reading of Psalms, where in 51:11, David says: Do not cast me from your presence or take your Holy Spirit from me.
So I looked up information on this:
John 7:39
The Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.
Acts 1:16
... which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake....
Luke 1:15, 41, 67
He [John the Baptist] shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. (v.15)
Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost. (v.41)
Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost. (v.67)
Now there's a whole lot more in both new and old, but this gives an idea of what I'm questioning.
So I thought, perhaps the Holy Spirit was there, but the "infilling" was what happened in the N.T. But then I go back to John 7:39.
I can't seem to find enough online to explain this and was wondering if anyone had any insight into what this might mean.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Carla on
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Seek,
These words kinda stood out for me that you said;
Mine isn't unbelief in God, but unbelief that I'll ever be able to overcome whatever it is holds me down, belief because I can't figure out how to overcome it that He'll give up on me, or already has sometimes. It's those doubts/unbeliefs.
This song comes to mind:
The message... "I can do all things through Christ who gives me strength, and I don't have to be strong enough."
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Permalink Reply by Seek on
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Carla I get that, and I believe in it, then that depression comes over me and all that seems to fly out the window while I'm in that dark pit. This is what keeps affecting me so horribly. I can't seem to keep the depression away nor fight it off. It can come gradually or overnight and lingers until it's run it's course. And it's such a dark pressing down that no amount of song, scripture, nothing can seem to break through it. But when it's there, what I posted before is what I keep thinking, believing.
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I'm sorry it's been so hard seek. I wish I had the words for you that would somehow encourage and give you hope.
I remember watching my mom go through a very difficult season when I was young... Watching her now many years later it's hard to believe that was our life. She says looking back now with some hindsight, she knows God was with her through it all and leading her out of it. Now living a vibrant life for the Lord, serving Him with all she has and all she does and able to rest in His peace and provision and compassion.
Have you sought out counselling? There are counsellors through AAG who may be able to help, they are free of charge. LT will be able to connect you with someone if you would find that helpful.
Sometimes we only see things in hindsight.
Blessings, Carla
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Carla, I've tried to many times. But funds lacking, mostly it's been those who will work free. And the saying you get what you pay for is quite true. However, my church did just publish one of our members as a counselor and so I contacted him and have been twice. I go again tonight. He's positive that he can help. I wish I were as positive.
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I think when people seek to 'feel' The Holy Spirit rather than simply walk in faith it can lead them down a dangerous road.... a road to mysticism. By what I understand mystics are very big on the experiential 'feeling' of spiritual things.. Keep in mind of coarse there are evil spiritual things, and they are very happy to fulfill that desire for feeling something spiritual. Be on guard.
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Permalink Reply by ribbon on
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Personal opinion: Most want the presence and power of God for the wrong reason ... it tends to be all about them. I have heard most of the excuses, but I want my family to be saved, I want to make a difference , etc ...
What a toe stomper.... but an eye opener.
How many times have we heard people say if God would only do this (demonstration of His power) or if He would only show Himself I would believe
Im guilty of this for sure.
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I'm more of the....
God I believe, but help my unbelief. I want to be where I don't have any doubts that He will do a thing at all. I believe in Him, just believing that He will do anything with my life...that's usually where I faltar. And I ask Him to do something that would show me, or help me just be content where I am regardless.
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on
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Seek,
I've been studying the indwelling of the Spirit. Some of this stuff really is about putting to death "self". Here's a good passage:
You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness. If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you. So then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him. (Romans 8:9-17 ESV)
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I have wondered about this, too. The following verse speaks of the Spirit's indwelling.
John 14:17
English Standard Version (ESV)
17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be[a] in you.
John 14:17
King James Version (KJV)
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Although the footnote for the ESV says "and will be" is "and is" in some manuscripts, I think the difference between OT (before the cross) and NT (after the cross) is mainly the permanent indwelling of the Spirit.
Micah 3:8 is interesting.
In the OT people were Spirit empowered, and I lean towards the understanding that the empowerment also included a temporary filling, at least sometimes. This could explain why Elijah became so destitute and ran away. After experiencing an incredible empowerment and filling that then disappeared, did he feel and know that in his own power he was completely powerless?
It was a crisis for Elijah, no less. If you notice, when the angel appeared while he was asleep under the broom tree, the angel sought to strengthen him physically, not spiritually. See 1 Kings 19:7-8. Doesn't it mean Elijah was going in his own strength? Why was Elisha called to help him? Why did Jesus call the Spirit our Comforter, in some translations our Helper? John 14:26
As you can see, I still have questions. I'm still studying this.
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Permalink Reply by RoyW on
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LT is right. Too many get focused on the power and are not focused on the real purpose of the giving of God's Spirit. He came to reveal Jesus to our world. He came to bring us to truth. Sometimes that does equate to a special anointing or gifting to enable us to that which would bring the truth to others. We see much of that in the New Testament.
There is so much nonsense that gets involved with this power. I believe in healing. Sometimes God just chooses to heal. However, we see people making great profit over pretending to be so anointed with power that people fall down just in their presence. They pretend to have enough power to heal others and then when they don't get healed, they claim the person didn't have enough faith or was living in sin or some ridiculous excuse to go on collecting big amounts of money.
People were empowered to preach Jesus to the lost. People are still empowered to do so. There are still those who are left that need salvation. We are in great need of His Spirit since there is so much error in the church. I guess I am more familiar than some since I grew up in a church that claimed to have this kind of power. They didn't have it but I surely was fooled for a long time.
I will share with all of you later. I believe you are hitting on something here that is vitally important. :)
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They pretend to have enough power to heal others and then when they don't get healed, they claim the person didn't have enough faith or was living in sin or some ridiculous excuse to go on collecting big amounts of money.
Not just pretend but some truly believe that God intends us to be healed and we have to "speak the truth" and walk in that healing before we can receive it. I don't know if they were given some revelation on healing, such as the disciples who went around healing and think it applies to all or if they healed a time or two and believe it's God's will that all are healed. Either way, it can be a huge bombshell when someone is believing for healing and it doesn't come to be made to feel they must not have enough faith, or that they have to claim they're healed even while they're still hurting and ill.
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God has to be so careful when bestowing gifts on his people. Sometimes, a really gifted person can be very tempted to profit from that gift. You hear stories of these that have jets to travel in, mansions to live in, etc., etc. Billy Graham is an example of one that is very gifted yet never used the gifts God gave him but to preach the Gospel. God wants us to know the truth and He gifts some with great wisdom to share His truth. I think of John Wesley and others. What a blessing they are to the Body of Christ.
Char, the verses you have shared testify to the purpose of the Spirit. David, why do you need God's Spirit? The Spirit testified through David the glorious One that was to come. God's Spirit is holy but that doesn't mean those of us who receive His Spirit are holy because of that. We are holy because He has separated us from this world and made us His own. He fills us with His Spirit to help us live holy lives and to fulfill the purpose for our lives. Parents need God's Spirit desperately to raise children in this very wicked generation. My wife and I needed God's Spirit so many times raising our kids. I often express that I don't know how anyone can raise their kids without God's Spirit.
God promises to help us accomplish His purpose for our lives. We have His Spirit to help us. We have always had that. Now a special anointing has come to God's people to proclaim the Gospel. I think that might be what you are referring to. It was that they were told to wait on in the upper room. We have the power to proclaim truth. We should never be intimidated by the world prohibiting us from that purpose.
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