All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
We Should Have Left With Him
A little levity - When the Supreme Court kicked God our of our schools, maybe we all should have got up and left with Him. We didn't and ever since we have been guilty of giving our children a godless education. Could that have anything to do with what we are seeing today?
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Permalink Reply by RoyW on
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Joe,
So, are you saying that God did not bring Hurricane Sandy? Your post here does not address the issue. It is a good post, but it does not address the sovereignty of God issue at all.
As far as us voting for Romney, we did the best we could do. Yet, God knows all. He knows what a very successful Mormon presidency would do to America. We think we know but we don't know.
I am stating that I believe that God is sovereign and therefore responsible for the hurricane. Rita is having problems believing that a loving God would do such a thing. Perhaps another reading of Revelation would be good. Even if Satan is responsible, we all know that God could override anything he does. God could have easily moved that hurricane out to sea avoiding the US completely.
I have to believe that hurricane hit America at just the time it did for a reason. I do not believe it happened by coincidence and it is largely responsible for Obama getting back into office. Why did the hurricane hit when it did and hit as hard as it did? It hit so hard that Governor Christie called Obama, brought him to New Jersey, and set up the photo opportunity that Obama so desperately needed to carry him over the top.
By me saying this, I do not support Obama's agenda in any way. I don't care if it were a Republican running on a pro death ticket, I would not vote for him. I will never vote pro death or pro choice as some call it. What I am saying is that the Christian really did not have a choice in this election. However, it was critical that the Christian population voted and voted pro life. I think that is the vote God wanted us to cast. We did not go against God by voting pro life. Most Christians do vote pro life even though as Rita pointed out some do vote pro death.
I believe we need to trust in God. We cannot trust in the things of this world. The system let the Christian down. He did not have a choice this time. I am glad that as many Christians that did vote, voted. There may have been some that would not vote for a Mormon. I understand and respect that. That might be the reason some did not vote at all.
I agree with just about everything you said. However, it does not address the main issue here. Either God is responsible for the hurricane or He is not. Rita says, "He is not." What do you say? That is the issue to which we are speaking.
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Permalink Reply by a servant (Chris) on
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Roy, Joe, Rita, and all others
Our vote does matter, we will give a account. As we mature in The Lord, and stand on His Word, we learn obedience, “ Yet when the Spirit of Truth comes, He will guide you into all Truth. He will not speak on His own accord, but will speak whatever He hears and will declare to you the things that are to come.” John 16:13 The Spirit will guide us into all Truth. However one voted is between them and The Lord. We have freedom in this country, two many men and women have given “all” they have, to gain and defend that right to vote. Whichever side a person voted, a clear message was spoken.As I shared in a earlier post. “I see the past events laying a clear path of "What is to Come." I believe this country will continue to be weakened. I can see those in power allowing the UN to begin to have a say; have man's authority, over who we have been until of late. Those who have man's power, have been for a long time laying a path to a world they have long wanted. To anyone who thinks I am a paranoid, I am not. Everyone must submit to governing authorities. For all authority comes from God, and those in positions of authority have been placed there by God. Rom 13:1 We are told again and again to respect authority.”
We may not agree or understand how the events played out, both nationally or locally. Our hope is not in man, but The Lord. We all agree on this, and we all desire Jesus to be Glorified. We are given instruction on how to look at those in power. ... The LORD doesn't see things the way you see them. People judge by outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart." 1Sam 16:7
The king's heart is like streams of water. Both are under the LORD's control. He turns them in any direction he chooses. Pro 21:1
Many are the plans in the mind of a man, but it is the purpose of the LORD that will stand. Pro 19:21
The LORD is the one who directs a person's steps. How then can anyone understand His own way?
Pro 20:24 Our Lord has not just a plan, He has The Plan and He will see that it is accomplished.Our citizenship, however, is in Heaven, and it is from there that we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus, the Messiah. Phil 3:20 We are not of this place. Yet, God works out His Plan with us and in us, while we are here. Patient endurance is what you need now, so that you will continue to do God's will. Then you will receive all that he has promised. Heb 10:36 God blesses those who patiently endure testing and temptation. Afterward they will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him. James 1:12 We are gaining much as we mature here. A humble heart, a deep Love for all, obedience to our Creator. Knowledge, Understanding, and Wisdom are ours in Him. 7 So humble yourselves before God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. 8 Come close to God, and God will come close to you. Wash your hands, you sinners; purify your hearts, for your loyalty is divided between God and the world. 9 Let there be tears for what you have done. Let there be sorrow and deep grief. Let there be sadness instead of laughter, and gloom instead of joy. 10 Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up in honor. James 4:7-10
4 Keep on rejoicing in the Lord at all times. I will say it again: Keep on rejoicing! 5 Let your gracious attitude be known to all people. The Lord is near: 6 Never worry about anything. Instead, in every situation let your petitions be made known to God through Prayers and Requests, with Thanksgiving. 7 Then God’s Peace, which goes far beyond anything we can imagine, will Guard your hearts and minds in union with the Messiah Jesus. 8 Finally, brothers, whatever is True, whatever is Honorable, whatever is Fair, whatever is Pure, whatever is Acceptable, whatever is Commendable, if there is anything of Excellence and if there is anything Praiseworthy—keep thinking about these things. 9 Likewise, keep practicing these things: what you have Learned, Received, Heard, and Seen in Me. Then the God of peace will be with you Phil 4:4-9
I do believe God is in control. Therefore, don't judge anything before the appointed time. Wait until the Lord comes. He will also bring to light what is hidden in the dark and reveal people's motives. Then each person will receive praise from God 1Cor 4:5 Judgement will come in His Time. Does He pass Judgement through disasters? I am not sure. It appears He has a time for that. As He knows the hairs on my head, He knows weather as well. Is it judgement or refinement? Is discipline taking place? Difficult to explain to a small child, who has lost their family. Yet, through it all have they been equipped with knowledge, they will pass down to others? 6 And you know what is holding him back, for he can be revealed only when his time comes. 7 For this lawlessness is already at work secretly, and it will remain secret until the One who is holding it back steps out of the way. 8 Then the man of lawlessness will be revealed, but the Lord Jesus will kill him with the breath of his mouth and destroy him by the splendor of His coming 2Thes 6-8 We have nothing to fear. God is in Control. We have Faith, Hope, and Love.
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Permalink Reply by JB on
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Joe,
So, are you saying that God did not bring Hurricane Sandy? Your post here does not address the issue. It is a good post, but it does not address the sovereignty of God issue at all.
Roy, I don’t claim to know all about the sovereignty of God; but I do marvel at what I do see, I see a God that has all power, both in heaven and earth, one that has created everything that can be created, not only the physical things that can be seen, but the microscopic, invisible, molecules, the nucleus of the atoms etc. All the ingredients to make a bomb for destruction, nuclear energy for power, could be used for the betterment of mankind. I do not see God bringing these elements together for any destructive purposes, or for bringing about His will in our lives. I know God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Heb.13:8, But He is dealing differently with the New Creation, we are under grace and not under the law, so things has changed the way He deals with us, Has God changed? No just the way He deals with us. He has given us the same laws, but they are written in our hearts and not on paper; a list to look at and try to maintain holiness by keeping every dot and tittle. Do we continue in sin that grace may abound? God forbid…..!, Ro.6:1, Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea we establish the law. Ro.3:31, This is why we as Christians need so desperately to let the Word of God dominate our lives, by allowing the Word: so live in us that it becomes as much a part of us as the blood flowing through our veins or any other part of us. When we do that, then we won’t be asking; is this a sin? Or how should I vote? We have the mind of Christ: that lets us make judgments according to His will, we will know how He thinks, I want that so much, that I can feel the pulse and the very heart beat of Christ welling up within me every time a situation presents itself to me. We have His will in a written form, but discerned through the anointing of the Holy Spirit. He has been made unto us wisdom (Sophia) meaning the insight into the true nature of things. There is a wisdom called (Phronesis) which is a practical wisdom, meaning the ability to discern modes of actions with with a view of the results. This is a learned wisdom, we know if we see certain things happening that is contrary to the Word of God, we know the outcome of that action, but the wisdom we have is (Sophia) from God byway of Jesus Christ. So as New Creations, we have no excuse for not knowing the Will of God. As an old song went, “It’s in the book” called the Holy Bible.
As far as us voting for Romney, we did the best we could do. Yet, God knows all. He knows what a very successful Mormon presidency would do to America. We think we know but we don't know.
Roy, I really do not believe that Romney or any intelligent candidate would try to push or force his religious convictions on the people he represents. I would think they would have a little more integrity than that. I don’t think Pres. Kennedy tried to preach his Catholic beliefs on the public. Neither did any of the former Presidents try to influence any one to join the Freemasons, or try to encourage us to do so. I saw a picture of Obama with a Masonic ring on his hand, and it said he was part of the Masonic conspiracy from a young age, and does not represent the interest of the American people.
These people are sworn to up hold the Constitution of the United States, which tells us that the Gov. cannot establish a religion for all to follow. However if we elect one with despotic tendencies, then we can expect to see our Constitution shrink to practically nothing. This is again why we need to trust in the Word of God, and His Christ that is within us to guide us into making proper judgments in our electing leaders for this Nation. Is God sovereign? Even more so than we think. Why would we need Christ in us, if God was going to direct all our affairs without us using our faith? Would a Christian with the mind of Christ; make decisions contrary to the will of God? Only if that Christian’s decisions were intellectually based, rather than Spiritual discernment.
I am stating that I believe that God is sovereign and therefore responsible for the hurricane. Rita is having problems believing that a loving God would do such a thing.
Roy, Rita is not the only one believing that, God has not poured out His judgment on mankind yet; though sin has already been judged, so if we step out from under the secret place of the Most High, we can expect to suffer the consequences of living a sinful life, the law of sin and death. God has set laws governing our lives, we transgress one of them, we suffer for it, and it is not that God is doing it at that time, but it is a law that He has established, that if we do certain things, there is consequences for doing it. Like trying to defy the laws of nature, gravity, we smoke a little pot, jump off a building thinking we can fly; we die. It’s the law. And here is the law of faith demonstrated by Jesus. I wonder why Jesus said to the disciples in the boat, in Mat. 8:26 “why are ye fearful; O ye of little faith? Then He rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm” if they weren’t able to calm the winds and the sea by speaking to them in faith on their own?
Perhaps another reading of Revelation would be good. Even if Satan is responsible, we all know that God could override anything he does. God could have easily moved that hurricane out to sea avoiding the US completely.
I believe He could have as well Roy, but the Word tells me in Eph.3:20, Now unto Him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all we can ask or think; according to the power that worketh in us.
So do you suppose that if a Christian; unafraid to use his faith in a situation such as this, could have prevented this from happening? Or would we be doubting we have that kind of power working in us.
Jo.14:12, Verily I say unto you, he that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto My Father. And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.If ye shall ask anything in My name I will do it.
If we would ask God to move that storm out to sea, would He say to us “Why are you so fearful, O ye of little faith why do you doubt” as well? I believe that if we asked God to move these mountains in our lives; He would tell us; I have given to you my Spirit, you say unto this mountain (storm) be thou removed and not doubt in your heart that it will obey you; then this storm will move out to sea.
I have to believe that hurricane hit America at just the time it did for a reason. I do not believe it happened by coincidence and it is largely responsible for Obama getting back into office. Why did the hurricane hit when it did and hit as hard as it did? It hit so hard that Governor Christie called Obama, brought him to New Jersey, and set up the photo opportunity that Obama so desperately needed to carry him over the top.
I would think, anyone that would make a decision to vote for a man based solely on that one incident, would be a very unstable human being. And this is one thing that would bother me in electing a leader for this Country, more than the man himself, is the ignorance of those voting. Sometimes I think it would be for the betterment of this Country if we had to take a test to qualify to vote for such an important issue. Luke 16:8 says The Lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light. The Christians of today do not seem to have the faith or the backbone to stand up for what (they say) they believe.
By me saying this, I do not support Obama's agenda in any way. I don't care if it were a Republican running on a pro death ticket, I would not vote for him. I will never vote pro death or pro choice as some call it. What I am saying is that the Christian really did not have a choice in this election. However, it was critical that the Christian population voted and voted pro life. I think that is the vote God wanted us to cast. We did not go against God by voting pro life. Most Christians do vote pro life even though as Rita pointed out some do vote pro death.
I wouldn’t want to judge a person whether or not he is a Christian, but I would have a hard time with a person telling me he is a Christian and following Christ, and vote against the very things God stands for.
I believe we need to trust in God. We cannot trust in the things of this world. The system let the Christian down.
What else could we expect? The systems of this world will always let the Christians down, because we are not of this world, Thank God!!
He did not have a choice this time. I am glad that as many Christians that did vote, voted. There may have been some that would not vote for a Mormon. I understand and respect that. That might be the reason some did not vote at all.
This is why He says in Hos.4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge….. And one like it in Prv.29:18, Where there is no vision, the people perish.
I agree with just about everything you said. However, it does not address the main issue here. Either God is responsible for the hurricane or He is not. Rita says, "He is not." What do you say? That is the issue to which we are speaking.
I say He is not “directly”, because it would be like saying that I built a pond and a person drowned in it, therefore I am responsible for his death. How much sense does that make? When all that man had to do was to use a little common sense.
And that is all these people had to do in this election; a little faith and common sense.
I am not finished, I’m just getting tired!! LOL
I still love ya Bro. and want to get together sometime. OKAY?
Joe
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Permalink Reply by Rita Cullimore on
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Very well said, Joe!
Amen and amen!
Blessings.....
Rita
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Joe,
I accept your well-defined position. Though I disagree with much of it, I do understand it is the position of many. Blessings to you, my friend.
Roy
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Permalink Reply by Richard L. Broch, Sr. on
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Hi Brothers and Sisters,
I've been following this thread with interest, as an observer since the 1960's when the U.S. started it's downward movement, away from God's Word, His will, and His ways.
I'm in agreement with several posts......and disagree with others.
Just look in the Old Testament and check out God's wrath when Israel and Judah disobeyed, and turned their backs on Him....... and in Exodus and Numbers.....when the chosen race murmurred and dis-obeyed......um-hummn......
Hey guys.......there's no doubt on my mind that God has caused all the hurricanes, floods, draughts, fires, earthquakes, tornadoes, and financial woes on this country as ........wake-up calls.
If you want to say Satan has brought all this on the U.S. ..........just remember - Satan can't do anything without GOD ALLOWING IT. Sometimes I think Satan gets too much credit around here.........he's just an angel.....who is not omni-present, nor omnipotent, nor omniscient. His way is the way of the world........and we all know what that's like.....the opposite of God......"In the world you have tribulation, but be of good cheer.....I have overcome the world." (Based on John16:33)...........And "Greater is He that is in us than he that is in the world." (Based on 1 John 4:4).
Also, I believe God gave us a presidential slate - one of false Christianity and one of the nation of islam. That's what this nation deserves - two losers. That's right - this nation is what I said. This nation is a far cry from it's earlier days. Regardless of 80% of the folks claiming to be Christian.....the Barna Group did an extensive study....and came up with a realistic figure of 16% Bible-Believing souls in the U.S.A.. I believe that. Jesus said, "On that day, many will say "Lord, Lord".....Tthen He will tell them that He never knew them.
And how about the "straight gate, with the narrow path.......and few there be that find it......?(Based on Matthew, Chapter 7).
Remember.....Christians are IN this world....not OF it. Get the umbrellas out, cause it's gonna rain on us as well as the unjust.
I stand on Romans 13:1-2 (Thanks Chris)........God puts those in power for His Purposes. Jesus told Pilate in John 19:11, " Jesus answered, "You would have no authority over Me, unless it had been given you from above............".
Are we approaching the end of the end times?.........maybe so. One thing I do know for sure - It's all about God.......not us.
Grace and peace to all from the Lord Jesus Christ.
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Richard,
I agree with your position but recognize that many do not. I agree that we really did not have a choice this year. I did vote since I felt it was important to keep this right alive but I had a very heavy heart while voting as I believe as you have stated.
God is sovereign over this earth. Everything must go through Him. He is the boss. A flick of His finger would have sent that hurricane out to sea. He did not flick it. I think we better had wake up and realize that He is not happy with the progression of America over the last fifty years. How do we think we are going to get by with many of the decisions we have made over those years? We are reaping what we have sown. We clearly say we don't need God. I opted out of the public school system thirty-two years ago. I really don't think the church should have consented to allowing the government to take God out of the education of their children. Had the church not been so weak, our nation would have a much different look today. We gave free reign to the media, the liberals in schools, the liberals in government, etc. We are paying a heavy price for our disobedience.
The Bible should be the focus of our churches, our schools, our homes, and even our businesses. We are really failing in these areas. God loves us way too much to leave us where we are. I just wonder how much discipline it will take to get us to wake up. It is time for God's people to stand and say, "This is enough."
We have elected a president who openly mocks the Bible. How will we react? I suggest that we will react with business as usual just as we did after 9/11. Praying is not the answer. Repentance in the prayer has to be included before any future action will be avoided.
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A small something that I want to add. Based on reports of upwards of 100% of voters voting, (example, a county in Florida counted 158% of registered voters voting, or a voting machine, after the fact, converting all votes 99% to Obama), I doubt we will ever see a fair election again. I will continue with the voting process, but, now, this process has been corrupted. I doubt the Obama actually won the vote, but he has it. So, we're stuck for 4 years with a president that promotes evil. Thirty states want to leave the USA to form their own government. This would invite civil war.
We are in a mess, folks, one that only God will stop by returning for His people. The sun is setting on the world, not just the USA. *The time is coming when no man can work.* Evil is working overtime here. Read and do the Word of God. Keep your eye on the sky, your redemption draws nigh.
Blessings.....
Rita
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Rita,
It is completely our fault that we are where we are. Jesus might be coming soon but He might not be as well. The world has gone through some dark times in the past for its rebellion. We have rebelled against our God. We have put wealth and comfort before responsibility. We might have some dark times ahead. God's people can still turn this around but repentance and sacrifice must precede that.
If Jesus comes soon then Praise His Name. I am preparing for dark times as I don't believe God's people are even close to repentance. I want to get closer to God and seek to follow Him more and more. I have failed as well and want to get where He wants me to be. I am coming back. As for me and my house we will serve the Lord.
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As we look at disasters that take place, and the how’s and why’s of them all. We hear from the unbelievers they say, “you speak of God’s Love, yet I would never love a God that would permit such disasters and hardships.” Or, we hear about God’s Judgement on worldly people. And, then we also have many who believe, He set things in motion and man’s sin which affected not only us but the world itself. So that is the reason disasters happen, man’s sin. Some of us combined part’s, or just say. “we do not know why things happen.” Yet overall, we just do not want to be the one’s who tell a child, “they lost their parents because of sin. Sin someone has done, sin their parents had done, or their own sin.
When we add Hebrews 12 into this subject, does it replace judgement with discipline? And, then does it removes unbelievers from the equation altogether? 5 And have you forgotten the encouraging words God spoke to you as His children? He said, “My child, don’t make light of the LORD’s discipline, and don’t give up when He corrects you. 6 For the LORD disciplines those He Loves, and He punishes each one He accepts as his child.” 7 As you endure this divine discipline, remember that God is treating you as His own children. Who ever heard of a child who is never disciplined by its father? 8 If God doesn’t discipline you as He does all of His children, it means that you are illegitimate and are not really His children at all. 9 Since we respected our earthly fathers who disciplined us, shouldn’t we submit even more to the discipline of the Father of our spirits, and live forever? 10 For our earthly fathers disciplined us for a few years, doing the best they knew how. But God’s discipline is always good for us, so that we might share in His Holiness. 11 No discipline is enjoyable while it is happening—it’s painful! But afterward there will be a peaceful harvest of right living for those who are trained in this way. 12 So take a new grip with your tired hands and strengthen your weak knees. 13 Mark out a straight path for your feet so that those who are weak and lame will not fall but become strong Heb 12:5-13 As we go through life; go through tragedy with others or alone. Since we know God Loves us and, “...God’s discipline is always good for us, so that we might share in His Holiness.” As difficult as it is to go through these times, we also remember, “No discipline is enjoyable while it is happening—it’s painful!...” Do we go through these times for our maturity? “...But afterward there will be a peaceful harvest of right living for those who are trained in this way.” For us to share in His Holiness; a peaceful harvest of right living, as we mature in a deeper Trust, a deeper Knowledge of His Love. Are these the meaning of v 12-13, “...a new grip..” is this a deeper Truth; a more mature Knowledge about God. So with a humble and mature Understanding about the True Character of our Lord, as we are lead by The Spirit we can help others. Help them to see His Love no matter what is happening around them. Following the example Jesus shows us, We do this by keeping our eyes on Jesus, the Champion who Initiates and Perfects our Faith. Because of the Joy awaiting Him, He endured the cross, disregarding its shame. Now He is seated in the place of Honor beside God's Throne. Heb 12:2 So do these things happen for our benefit; for our maturity, by His discipline and not judgement? Through the eyes matured in His Love, is discipline and judgement the same? Or, should we define them as very different, based on the timing and reasons of the actions?
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I don't think God is asking us to pretty Him up, put a bright non-offending yellow-bow around His Word and make Him more presentable to our society. Our society would like to have our God tell them that all kinds of sin is okay. That just is not going to happen. The sins that were sin 2,000 years ago, are still sin today. He has not changed. How many are saying to the world that God has softened over the years. He is still the same God that punished Jesus even to the point of death for our sins. That should show us His love but other things show us His judgment. How many times do we see Him coming into a society and bring great destruction because of their disobedience. We haven't seen anything yet. We need to be telling our society that what we have seen is only an example of what He will do if we don't get some things straightened out.
However, I did hear that our problems were old white men. Maybe if we can get rid of them, things will be much better. Whoops, I guess that would include me. Wait a minute!
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