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Trinity
I want to know more about the existences of this trinity and some fact to proof it from the scripture. Thanks
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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HOS 13:4 "But I am the LORD your God,
who brought you out of Egypt.
You shall acknowledge no God but me,
no Savior except me.
LK 2:8 And there were shepherds living out in the fields nearby, keeping watch over their flocks at night. 9 An angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were terrified. 10 But the angel said to them, "Do not be afraid. I bring you good news of great joy that will be for all the people. 11 Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is Christ the Lord. 12 This will be a sign to you: You will find a baby wrapped in cloths and lying in a manger."
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Permalink Reply by Hellofull on
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HOS 13:4 "But I am the LORD your God,
who brought you out of Egypt.
You shall acknowledge no God but me,
no Savior except me.
LK 2:8 And there were shepherds living out in the fields nearby, keeping watch over their flocks at night. 9 An angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were terrified. 10 But the angel said to them, "Do not be afraid. I bring you good news of great joy that will be for all the people. 11 Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is Christ the Lord. 12 This will be a sign to you: You will find a baby wrapped in cloths and lying in a manger."
God will save man through Christ. That is why Christ is God's plan even in the beginning (I Pet. 1:20 Douay Version)
Explanation of the Bible:
Jude 1:25 Today's English Version
to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, might, and authority, from all ages past, and now, and forever and ever! Amen.
Erroneous and not biblical interpretation of man:
God is only Savior
Christ is Savior
Therefore, Christ is God.
"Yet, another Fallacy in logic"
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Hosea says there is "no Savior except me" and Luke states that Jesus is Savior. That is perfect logic that if there is only one Savior, in this context, and Jesus is Savior the Bible proclaims Him God. If you deny that you are denying the Word and reading into Scripture what you want it to say.
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It is written:
Jude 1:25 Today's English Version
to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, might, and authority, from all ages past, and now, and forever and ever! Amen.
Acts 5:31 NKJV
Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.
You're the one going beyond what is written. God is the only Savior, and will save man through Christ. Are trying to question how God saves man?
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The Word is clear.
John 20:28-29
John 20:28-29 (NASB)
28 Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!" 29 Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed."
John 20:28-29 (KJV)
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
John 20:28-29 (NIV)
28 Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!" 29 Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."
John 8:58-59
John 8:58-59 (NASB)
58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." 59 Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple.
John 8:58-59 (KJV)
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
John 8:58-59 (NIV)
58 "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" 59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.
Matthew 28:19
Matthew 28:19 (NASB)
19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
Matthew 28:19 (KJV)
MT 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Matthew 28:19 (NIV)
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Philippians 2:5-11
Philippians 2:5-11 (NASB)
5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 Therefore also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE SHOULD BOW, of those who are in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Philippians 2:5-11 (KJV)
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. 12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Philippians 2:5-11 (NIV)
5 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, 7 but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death-- even death on a cross! 9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Isaiah 9:6-7
Isaiah 9:6-7 (NASB)
6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. 7 There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace, On the throne of David and over his kingdom, To establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness From then on and forevermore. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will accomplish this.
Isaiah 9:6-7 (KJV)
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
Isaiah 9:6-7 (NIV)
6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.7 Of the increase of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David's throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever. The zeal of the LORD Almight will accomplish this. -
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Indeed very clear.
If you can't understand that, ask for understanding.
James 1:5 NKJV
If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him.
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Dear Theresa,
Your questions are: Are you Jehova Witness? Please answer yes or no, okay?
No, if by Jehovah's Witness, you mean the religion with such name.
Does your name means "you are full of it?" or " full of hell?".
To give you a peace of mind I'll answer such question (which sounds like an insult). Hellofull is not my name, it's a username/nickname I use in this site. It doesn't mean anything, it simply is Hellofull. Why pick such nickname? First, it's not a word in the dictionary, it's harder to hack to an account with such kind of words. Second it's easy to remember, every time people say "hi" and "hello" you remember it.
If such nickname troubles you so much, we can arrange for it to be changed. But I guess we need the permission of the Administrator of this site.
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Permalink Reply by Theresa on
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Hellofull,
Your beliefs that Jesus is not God resemble those of JEHOVA WITNESS. You are saying that you are not but surely, it looks like you were influenced by them. I am convinced of God's mercy and grace to me and to all who call upon His name, the name of Jesus that is above every name, God is no respecter of person and what He did for one, He will do for others.
Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen. (1 Timothy 1:17) (King refers to Jesus in the immediately preceeding text)
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh... (1 Timothy 3:16)
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men... (1 Timothy 4:10) (Savior is another name for Jesus)
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, 0 God, is for ever and ever... (Hebrews 1:8)
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. (1 John 5:7)
From just these scriptures, I think it's very plain and unmistakeable that Jesus is God! Anyone who cannot accept this simply doesn't know the scriptures very well, and anyone who professes otherwise is a heretic, plain and simple. ( this is taken from one of Terry Scerine' many anointed blogs) and I could never ever say it any better. This explains the courage I had to tell you what I did. You think it is insult and I think it is courage. I hope my words shake you a little bit and not let go of you before you wake up on the other side and scream:' oh, it is hot here".
Theresa,
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This is my question to you, Hellofull. Which one of these here is your God? What is His name?
To me, when I worship or pray and when I say God, I am meaning Jesus. Anytime I say Jesus, I am really saying God. How about you? I hope you read this article below and enjoy it as much as I did. Our Lord want us all blessed, saved, in heaven with Him and I am in agreement with Him.
Do all religions worship/have the same God?
No matter how similar non-Christian religions are, their truths are laced with errors that lure their followers away from the true God. Biblical revelation forces us to make a decision about religion. And it sounds narrow-minded, but Jesus affirmed that the way to God is narrow, and that few people go that way. (Matthew 7:14).
Does it matter what you believe as long as you are sincere? What if you believe that all you need for caving is a canary so you can tell if you have run out of oxygen, or all you need for scuba diving is the ability to swim, or if you are going to go skydiving, all you need is a REALLY big umbrella? Okay these seem inane, but in the natural and physical world, what you believe is crucial. So it is in the spiritual world.
Today, many of the people in the world believe in a single god, which they call "God". However, do they all believe in the same God? Many people would like to believe so, but the this is not the case.
For example, "God" has many names. Muslims call him "Allah"; most Christians and Jews call him "God"; Jehovah's Witnesses call him "Jehovah"; Mormons call him "Heavenly Father". (There is also, by the way, a Heavenly Mother, although they don't talk a lot about her to outsiders.)
Even in the Bible, God is known by a variety of names. Jews, in fact, have a name for God, in Hebrew, that is so holy that they will not say it out loud in everyday speech or spell it in its entirety. Some devout Jews are even more extreme. Even in English, they will write "G-d", rather than "God".
But names are only names. Is it not possible that all these different names and ways of talking about a supreme being are actually referring to the same supreme being?
If you examine what different religions believe about God, you will see that this is not the case.
Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me” (John 14:6).
Anyone who has read the Qur’an and compared it to the Bible knows that the Muslims do not believe in this statement by Jesus, nor in the God of the Old and New Testaments; therefore, it is quite clear that the Islamic faith does not pay homage to the God of Christianity.
Jesus Himself makes it clear that He is not another way to God - He is the ONLY way. And all throughout the Bible we are told that other religions do not lead us to the same God. There is only one God. That is clearly the message of Isaiah which Jesus quoted from during His ministry.
“I am the LORD, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God. I will gird you, though you have not known Me; That men may know from the rising to the setting of the sun That there is no one besides Me. I am the LORD, and there is no other” . . . (NASB) Isaiah 45:5-6
"Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth; For I am God, and there is no other.” (NASB) Isaiah 45:22
An honest reading of the Bible reveals that Jesus claimed to be the ONLY way and the ONLY God. There is no other. So it is not surprising that the Bible claims that all other religions only pretend to be a path to God. Therefore, if someone wants to accept Jesus and Jesus says that He is the only way and the only God, then they have a decision to make. Jesus rejected the idea that other gods exist. Therefore, if someone accepts Jesus, then they must reject all other claims.
The Christian God, for example, exists in three parts: the Father, Son and Holy Spirit (or Holy Ghost). These are three separate persons, all eternal, all omnipresent, who form a single, unified deity called the Trinity.
The Muslim God, on the other hand, is a singular being, the all-powerful creator of the universe. Although Muslims recognize Jesus as a prophet, they do not believe he was crucified, nor do they believe him to be part of the supreme deity. (In fact, to a Muslim, such an idea is blasphemous.) Muslims revere Mohammed, whom they consider to be the last of a series of prophets, as bringing God's word to Earth. However, Mohammed is very much a human being.
Hindus believe that all things are part of God, that souls are reincarnated at death, and that our lives are influenced by karma, i.e., good and bad actions in this life determine one’s status in the next. The goal is nirvana, release from the cycle of reincarnation to become one with God. A guru helps guide a person toward total realization of God.
The Bible teaches "it is appointed for men to die once ..." (Hebrews 9: 27)
God promises a resurrection to immortality for His faithful servants to reign with Jesus Christ and help Him administer God's Kingdom.
Hindus believe that all reality is a single divine entity that composes the entire universe. To Hindus, this entity is the universe and, at the same time, transcends the universe. They visualize a supreme deity as a triad consisting of Brahma, the Creator; Vishnu (Krishna), the Preserver; and Shiva, the Destroyer. Some Hindus consider Vishnu to be the ultimate deity, others consider Shiva to be the ultimate deity. At the same time, Hindus collectively worship many hundreds of different gods and goddesses, each of which represents one aspect of the universal being.
Pure Buddhism is more philosophy than religion, a godless devoutness. Other forms of Buddhism revere Buddha as a deity and speak of salvation through faith in him.
The apostle Peter declared concerning Jesus, "Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved" (Acts 4:12).
Confucianism, the philosophical system founded on the teaching of Confucius (551-479 BC) dominated Chinese socio- political life for most of Chinese history and largely influenced the cultures of Korea, Japan and Indochina.
¹”Confucianism combines a political theory and a theory of human nature to yield a tao—a prescriptive doctrine or way. According to the political theory, the legitimate ruler derives authority from heaven’s command. The ruler bears responsibility for the well-being of the people and therefore for peace and order in the empire. Confucian philosophy presupposed a view of human nature in which humans are essentially social animals whose mode of social interaction is shaped by li (convention or ritual), which establishes value distinctions and prescribes activities in response to those distinctions. Education in li, or social rituals, is based on the natural behavioural propensity to imitate models. Sages, or superior people—those who have mastered the li—are the models of behaviour from which the mass of people learn. Ideally, the ruler should himself be such a model and should appoint only those who are models of te (virtue) to positions of prominence. People are naturally inclined to emulate virtuous models; hence a hierarchy of merit results in widespread natural moral education.”
[¹Quote from “What’s The Difference?” Bible Tract printed by Combined Christians, Blue Mountains, New South Wales, Australia]
Shinto is primarily a form of nature worship. Mountains, rivers, heavenly bodies, and other things are worshipped and personified. There is no personal relationship to a god.
Like Christians, Mormons recognize a holy trinity. However, they consider God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit to be completely separate entities. God and Jesus have bodies of flesh and bone (and, literally, God had sex with Mary to produce Jesus). The Mormon God was once a human-like being, and (skipping a lot of details here) they believe that it is possible for a man to eventually become a God in his own right and rule over his own planet.
To Jews, God is the god of the ancient Israelites, the supreme being who made a divine covenant with Abraham (Genesis 12:1-4). Like most other monotheistic religions, Judaism considers God to be the creator of the universe and disembodied. However, Jews do not recognize Jesus as being divine or a part of God. They do, however, believe that God has communicated with the Jewish people via various prophets (although, unlike Muslims, they do not consider Mohammed to have been a prophet). Christianity is rooted in Judaism, and there are Messianic Jews who believe in Jesus as the Messiah.
What should our attitude be towards our associates who belong to non-Christian religions? Our attitude should be the same as God’s attitude. In John 3:16 we read:
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
Jesus leaves his believers absolutely certain they will enter heaven. Other religions typically place so many criteria on their followers before they could be considered worthy of heaven that they endure a lifetime of uncertainty as to whether or not they have fulfilled the necessary requirements.
You’re gambling with eternity. Jesus alone is the sinless Son of God who suffered an agonizing death so that you and I could escape eternal torment and enjoy heaven. Improve your odds on life’s most serious gamble by giving priority to weighing Jesus’ claims. Seek Him, and only Him.
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The Doctrine of Trinity.
"It cannot therefore be seriously maintained that the mystery of the Divine Trinity was clearly revealed in the Old Testament." (The Divine Trinity, A Dogmatic Treatise, Rt. Rev. Msgr. Joseph Pohle, Ph. D., D. D., p. 20)
"The word 'Trinity' does not appear in the New Testament; and the meanings of the words 'person' and 'nature,' in the precise senses in which these words are used to bear the message of God, had to be carefully refined to bear that message rightly. But what the New Testament teaches is in truth captured with care and reverence in the exact statements of the early councils of the Church." (The Teaching of Christ: A Catholic Catechism for Adults, Ronald Lawler, Donald W. Wuerl and Thomas Comerford Lawler, p. 177)
"The term 'Trinity' is not found in Scripture, ... The invention of the term is ascribed to Tertullian." (Systematic Theology, Augustus Hopkins Strong, D. D., LL. D., p. 304)
"Tertullian ...He was the first person to use the Latin word trinitas (trinity). Tertullian later joined the Montanist movement."
"The Montanists soon ran into trouble. In Asia they were excommunicated by the first synods of bishops known in the history of the church."
"...Tertullian gave the Latin West a theological vocabulary that has hardly yet been bettered. He drew upon Stoicism and Roman law for his language, and taught that God was one being (substantia) but three concrete individuals (personae)..." (Eerdmans' Handbook to the History of Christianity, Tim Dowley, pp. 76, 74, 112)
"Tertullian was the first to use the term 'Trinity' and to formulate the doctrine, but his formulation was deficient, since it involved an unwarranted subordination of the Son to the Father." (Systematic Theology, Augustus Hopkins Strong, D. D., LL. D., p. 82).
"Origen already uses the expression 'homoousios' (In ep. ad Hebr. 1, 3). The expression 'trias' as the designation of the tri-personal nature of God is first used by Theophilus of Antioch (Ad Autol, II 15); the corresponding Latin expression, trinitas, is first used by Tertullian (Adv. Prax 2; De pud, 21). "(Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, Dr. Ludwig Ott, 4th ed., Nihil Obstat: Jeremiah J. Sullivan. Imprimatur: Cornelius, p. 60)
"...However, it must be stressed that we do not have from Paul any conceptually developed doctrines of the Trinity, as was later arrived at by the Council of Nicea." (Dogma 3: God and Christ, Michael Schmaus, p. 130)
"The Church began to formulate its doctrine of the Trinity in the fourth century. The Council of Nicea declared the Son to be co-essential with the Father (325 A.D.), while the Council of Constantinople (381 A.D.) asserted the deity of the Holy Spirit, though not with the same precision." (Systematic Theology, Augustus Hopkins Strong, D. D., LL. D., pp. 82-83)
"Before the Councill of Nicea (AD 325) all theologians viewed the Son as in one way or another subordinate to the Father." (Eardmans' Handbook to the History of Christianity, Tim Dowley, pp. 112-113)
"The most complete formulation of the doctrine of the Trinity in a Creed since the times of the Fathers is found in the Symbol of the 11th Synod of Toledo (675), which is composed mosaic-like out of texts from the Fathers (above all from St. Augustine, St. Fulgentius, St. Isodore of Seville), and of former Synods (especially that of the 6th Synod of Toledo, 638). D. 275-281." (Fundamentals of Cath. Dogma, p. 53).
And... Like most of you are saying about it...
"The Trinity is a wonderful mystery. No one understands it. The most learned theologian, the holiest Pope, the greatest saint, all are mystified by it as the child of seven. It is one of the things which we shal know only when we see God Face to Face." (God and Myself, An Inquiry Into the True Religion, Martin J. Scott, S.J., p. 118)
"...according to the teaching of the Church, the dogma of the Blessed Trinity ...is a mystery in the fullest sense; that is to say, it cannot even be proved by reason, ...nay, it cannot even be proved to be possible." (The Blessed Trinity, Rev. C. F. Blount, S.J., Catholic Truth Society, p. 2)
"God of course, cannot perform an absurdity, a contradiction in terms. He cannot, for instance, make two and two equal five." (This is Catholicism, John Walsh, S.J., p. 25)
If man have only based his faith on the Bible, then one doesn't have to create his own doctrine. The truth about God wouldn't have to be so troublesome:
Romans 1:19 New American Standard Bible
"because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.
But instead,..
Ecclesiastes 7:29 King James Version
29Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.
Should man follow such doctrines created or invented by man?
II Peter 1:16 Revised Standard Version
"For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty."
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