I was recently listening to Rebekah Todd, Curry Blake's daughter. She was telling about how she went about praying for her now husband. He was an unbeliever. They had broken up when she had turned her life completely back to Christ, but she continued praying for him.
She was praying "please God, send someone to change him, open doors for him etc." One day, while she was driving, God spoke to her heart, so she pulled over and God said to her, Why is praying for salvation any different than praying for the sick? When we pray for the sick, we command the sickness to go, we tell the body what we want it to do.
Mark 11:23 "For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith".
So she changed her praying for him, declaring "you are going to preach the gospel, you are going to be a world changer, you are going to change radically". Specific, targeted prayer for him.
Rom 4:17 "...and calleth those things which be not as though they were."
In her mind he didn't have a choice, it was going to happen and it was just a matter of time. A month later, he called her to get together and she found out he had given his life to the Lord through a friend of his!
It has definitely changed the way I have been praying for some of my unbelieving family.
Be blessed! Dave
The major problem with this teaching is found in one sentence, not to mention it is not Scriptural no matter how many loose verses we string together. Here is the problem: In her mind he didn't have a choice, it was going to happen and it was just a matter of time. He did not have a choice? This is not even a Calvinist vs Arminian issue. She simply prays and he is GOING to get saved.
Then we have a whole other issue. Now, just like the belief if someone is not healed it is their fault or the fault of the one praying, if someone does not receive Jesus it is the failure of the one who prayed. If only they had prayed harder or had more faith ..... forget that the person has been given the liberty to reject him or receive him, because if someone prays they are going to get saved no matter what. Therefore, if someone in your family (or someone you know) died, or dies, and they are not born again at the time of death IT IS YOUR FAULT, because all one had to do to see a person receive Jesus is pray for their salvation and if you have enough faith and pray hard enough they will be saved because they have no choice in the matter. Simply, as said before, not Biblical.
Different twist on the same old name it and claim it.
LT, there are different levels of “name it, and claim it” beliefs. The one above, to me is a little extreme.
If it is a promise of God, made to Abraham, then one can “name it, and claim it”. You know the scripture referenced, so I won’t throw out a series of random verses trying to justify my beliefs.
In other words, there are certain things we can “name and claim”. I do not believe any individual can decide another’s destiny, as far as salvation is concerned. The Spirit must be the one drawing one to God, we know man does not have the ability to make that decision on his own. It is the Spirit that quickens!!!
The other controversial extreme is “either God caused it, or God allowed it”. Heard some time ago by a son of a famous TV preacher. To me, this happens when we yield, or lean unto our own understanding based on, academic reasoning, which then becomes, or gains the ascendency over the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
As usual we agree in majority, but differ in certain specifics. Promises of God have to be understood in context. There a number of factors regarding promises in the Word of God.
Is the promise an eternal promise or a temporal promise?
Is the promise a conditional promise or unconditional promise?
To whom is the promise made? Is it to a specific individual, specific group, or is it universal.
I have no issue ever with claiming promises of God that apply to us as children of God. What drives me crazy is the flagrant abuse out there today that teaches any and every promise is claimable by children of God today, when this simply is not true. In the lists above (which could be broke down further) one must note a selection from each list when examining a promise (i.e. a promise can be eternal, unconditional and given universally or it can be eternal, conditional and given to a specific group, etc).
As you said LT, we do agree on the majority, and probably on more of the rest than we think. I can discuss these things much better in person than I can by writing, my writing skills are lacking in several areas. I’m a builder and heavy equipment operator, with a desire to teach and/or preach the Word, with of course a lot more to learn. Mainly, learning to allow the Holy Spirit to do the teaching. I used to read the bible with what little understanding, I thought I had, till one morning when I was so desperate to understand more about faith, plus so many other things about God and His Word, I sat down and just said to God, “Lord I’m just going to ask you about faith”,( please bear with me, because this is something that most people just can’t, or will not understand). But the Holy Spirit spoke to me, almost in an audible voice and said, “Faith does not move Me”, and I said “that’s right, faith moves the mountains, but not God, God has already moved in our behalf through Jesus Christ” so without explaining this, and the rest of what transpired after that, it literally changed my life, and the way I see faith, and a lot of other things I used to believe.
Now back to the discussion. There are those that think, The promises that God gave to Abraham 430 years before the law was given, were directly to them, when actually they were given to Christ, and if we have accepted Christ as savior, then the promises can be, “named and claimed”, or acted on by the believer. I see all the promises are conditional, One must believe before they can be claimed. And according to the Word, there is nothing impossible to those that believe. And that doesn’t mean things that God hasn’t already provided. The faith that moves the “mountains” is moved by the faith of Christ, our faith is in what God has already done for us through Christ. In other words I see everything has been accomplished, and provided for us already by Christ, and must be appropriated by faith. This includes healing, deliverance, prosperity, everything that pertains unto life and godliness, but through the knowledge of God, and Jesus our Lord. “Knowledge” more than just knowing there is a God, and actually more than just being born again.
Kinda wish we still had “HANG OUTS” what little I got to see of it, but didn’t seem to have enough participation.
With all my heart, I endevour to post and write things that are absolutely biblical, not my beliefs or thoughts, because with our carnal minds, we will quickly get into error.
I can see how her testimony might be confusing, but I definitely agree, everyone has their own will and makes their own choices, no one can make decisions for us. The way I saw it, in her mind, she had settled it, it was going to be that way and no other. It was like she was going to war, planning and deciding the outcome. The choice was always still his. If you can, please listen to her testimony, as I have only paraphrased part of it.
I have overcome an autoimmune disease by these verses “speaking those things that be not as though they we’re” and “speaking to my mountain”, believing it was already done. So I know God’s Word is true, I know it is Alive in me. I choose everyday to believe and stand upon the Word of God and His promises to me, but I do so while abiding in Christ.
I’m not trying to make a name for myself, I really could care less for my ministry, my name. I’m here to exalt the name of Jesus and not to be somebody.
This is not about doctrine, it’s about a mission, a cause and getting results. It’s about life and death for people. If we are going to do something for God, we have to do what God can do, not what man can. It’s about Who we serve and what we are here for. We have to move into the things of God like never before!