All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
Judgment of the Prosperity Gospel
Living under God's blessing is NOT the same as the prosperity gospel that is being taught in today's world. There will come a day when God will judge the prosperity gospel. In following such teachings, we are letting the Light of Jesus grow dim. Consider this: The devil knows how to bless too. America is being blinded . The churches are blinded. Men are refusing to hear the council of God. Why is this? Where does the believer stand spiritually? Where do we stand with Jesus?
We must call the church (the body of Christ) to repentance because we have hid the Light of Christ.
1 Samuel 3:1-3
1And the child Samuel ministered unto the LORD before Eli. And the word of the LORD was precious in those days; there was no open vision.
2And it came to pass at that time, when Eli was laid down in his place, and his eyes began to wax dim, that he could not see;
3And ere the lamp of God went out in the temple of the LORD, where the ark of God was, and Samuel was laid down to sleep;
1 Samuel 2:29
29Wherefore kick ye at my sacrifice and at mine offering, which I have commanded in my habitation; and honourest thy sons above me, to make yourselves fat with the chiefest of all the offerings of Israel my people?
God will judge sin. The light IS going out in the church.
We have allowed wrongs. We've failed to keep the light burning. The dead don't worship God. Our light is not shining. Somebody has got to turn the light back on. We must be watchmen to stand against such nonsense. To stand against the gospel of greed. It seems we want to take the best and give God the rest.
The benefits of God are far greater than the benefits of sin. We must preach the truth that the Light of Christ will shine and darkness will be exposed. Woe to you who are blind, naked, destitute. It's time to Rise Up, turn the light back on. You are the light of the world.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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Excellent words Robert,
Very well stated. I will only add that the closer we get to the Lord, the more we understand his Holiness (not that we will ever understand it fully) and the more like him we become. We become well balance and can lead the way in multiple arenas. We can walk the walk and love the unsaved world with compassion and love our family more than ourselves.
We can do All things through Christ, nothing is impossible through Him. We can love the body shining the different spectrums of Godly love. Doing one thing while not neglecting another Christian responsibility.
We can work at church according to our ministries; evangelize as a way of life. Pray for all issues in our world as the Spirit leads. We can work secular jobs and spend extra time in a community like this one edifying one another and we can even expose false doctrine according to the leading of the Holy Spirit. When God is our all - we can do more.
God does not tell us (though we have gifts that lead us to specialize in certain areas) only walk the walk and lead and don't ever expose false teachings. Actually an excellent leader will do all that is in the counsel of our Lord.
Jude 1:3 (New International Version)
The sin and doom of Godless men
3Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints.
Press on bro. -
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Permalink Reply by forgiven on
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I just have to ask myself, "If Jesus was here right now, would He like me?" It is not about what other people are doing wrong, it is about what 'I' am doing. Am I angry with people or mean? Do I get offended? Yes, Yes and Yes. I know He wants me to love and I fail Him so mant times.
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May the Lord bless you Margaret and give you the peace you are looking for. You seem very upset about many things. Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. Matthew 5:6
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Robert,
Our walk involves everything pertaining to God and Godliness.
2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
The scripture is profitable for personal reproof, correction and instruction, but also to reproof, correct and instruct others in righteousness.
Our walk is not about what people are doing wrong primarily, is about becoming Christ like. As we become Christ like, He will use us even to deal with issues we don't really want to deal with. But we are commanded to do in scripture. For sure, let us love and edify one another while straining to keep the bond of peace as much as it is possible, but let’s not run from the hard work of standing up for the truth either.
Jesus is completely capable of dealing with these men, but often uses us in the process. That is biblical.
Blessings. -
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Permalink Reply by JB on
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Hello David!
I don’t claim to be a writer, so please excuse my grammatical errors. And pray for understanding, lol
Re.
Since we have been discussing the prosperity message a little, i want to discuss one of the reasons i feel they get off in their doctrine. it relates to a line of reasoning they hold to. they believe since we are children of Abraham and share in the "covenants of promise", they hold that all the benefits of the Abrahamic and mosaic covenant belong to us. so they say things like, Abraham was rich, we should receive that benefit. they say that since the law promised that our land crops would be blessed, our businesses will be prosperous. etc. etc. they also apply the "curses" of the mosaic covenant to believers, but here i would like to focus on how they apply the "promises" and benefits of those covenants to the nt believer. in the discussions about "christians under law?" we talked about the curses.
A.
It was God that did the promising, not the law.
If you are a Christian, then you have hearkened to the voice of the Lord, The curses do not apply to you. Only the blessings. You are under Grace, not the law. You have been redeemed from the curse of the law.
So let’s talk about the Abrahamic Covenant that actually applies to the Children of God. Not just the Jews, remember He is not a Jew that is a Jew outwardly, but he is a Jew that is one inwardly, as circumcision is not in the flesh, but in the spirit.
The promises of God given to Abraham was 430 years before the Mosaic law was given to the children of Israel.
So how did Christ become the seed of Abraham?
It was because he believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness. Christ, meaning “anointed” or the anointed one.
Rom. 4:13 through the righteousness of faith. Because the promises were given to Abraham and his seed, He said not to seeds as of many, but to the one seed that is Christ.
So the promises were not given to all the children of Israel, But to Christ, Christ is not the last name of Jesus, but is indeed an epithet. So now if you have Christ, then all the promises are yours.
I usually explain it like this, My wife’s maiden name was Rutherford, now if all the wealth of the world were given to the Boyce’s, then by her marring me she becomes an heir of that wealth. We as gentiles were grafted into the natural branch and become heirs of the promises of Abraham, through Christ.
Q.-So, is their logic correct?
A.
It can only be logic to a believer, or the way I see it is to the New Creation. These things are foolishness to the non-believer, even at times to those that say they believe, but only parts of the Word, the parts that makes sense to them, emphasis on “Sense” Those that only have a sense knowledge faith or understanding. If they can’t perceive it with their senses, it must not be true. So I think I know what this is trying to lead into, but as I said in another post, this is derived from an ideology born of sense knowledge, and not from a spiritual viewpoint.
In response to the foregoing questions that are presented here,
Q.
#1.Do all the promises of prosperity in the abrahamic and mosaic covenants apply to us?
A.All of the Abrahamic covenant does belong to us, the Mosaic covenant or law was given to the children of Israel until the seed should come to whom the promises were made
The laws or rather the Ten commandments, were written laws given to Israel, Though they do apply to us, but they are not written on paper for us to follow, they are written in our hearts and as it says in Rom.7, I think, they are spiritual and we are lead by the Spirit and not by the letter of the law. In other-words they become our nature or personality and not a set of rules to be followed. As He said “yea we establish the law”
Q.
#2.Do we have the promise of blessed crops?
A.Depending on how much you believe the promises made to Abraham mentioned in Deut.28:1-14 belong to us, for myself, Yes, if I hearken diligently unto His voice of the Lord my God and keep His commandments.
I usually make the Word of God, whether in the Old or New Testaments, an affirmation; what He says about me, I just affirm it in my heart and mind. He says somewhere in Prov. 8 Wisdom is speaking, and to the New Creation, 1Cor. 1:30 Jesus has been made unto us Wisdom!
“ I lead in the way of righteousness and in the midst of the paths of judgment, that I may cause those that love me to inherit substance and I will fill their treasure.
All of the promises are received the same way as your salvation, By faith!
The only ones that can be saved are those that will come to Him and believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him.
So you can believe it and receive it, or doubt it and do without it. Your healing, deliverance, prosperity salvation and all the promises of God are all dependant on one thing, Faith. Without it, it is impossible to please Him.
Q.
#3.Do we have the promise of victory over our national enemies?
A.If you are a born again believer, you are more than a conqueror over all your enemies. Col. Says, in Him dwelleth all the fullness of the God-head, bodily and ye are complete in Him, which is the head of all principalities and powers”.
We as a nation now have been taking God out of every public place, schools etc. and is the same as turning out a light, and we as a nation are walking in darkness, But not as an individual Christian, we are children of light.
Even a thousand shall fall at your side and ten thousand at your right hand, but it shall not come nigh you. Ps.91, Can we really believe that God can and will carry out His promises to us as He did to those at that time? Can we take Ps. 91 as a promise to us? I do!
This is when it is no longer I that liveth, but Christ that liveth in me.
Man and God joined together in one body, making us, a or the, New Creature.
According to Mat.17:20 there is nothing impossible to him that believeth. Paraphrased, and with God, if you have God in you, there is nothing impossible to you.
Eph 3:20, Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
Can we believe those scriptures? Is He really talking to us?
Too many people will read the Word as they would a common book. It has no life in it, it is not spirit to them, it’s just a book of rules and regulations to abide by till they get to heaven.
Q.
#4. Do we get the promise of living at peace in our land? etc, etc.
A.Isa.26:3 He will keep them in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on Him. In this world you will have tribulation, but be of good cheer for I have overcome the world.
He is in me, making me an over comer!
According to Deut.28 again, He will set you on high above all nations of the earth, Not to say that you will be a king or the president of this nation, But you can walk above the dictates of this present world. As Paul said, he knows how to be content in whatever state he is in.
I like what I read some time ago.
“Life is not the way it's supposed to be.
It's the way it is.
The way you cope with it is what makes the difference.”
The way we cope with it is, In all our ways we acknowledge Him.
As I have said before, “We face things as they are, we just don’t accept them as they are” When we know who we are in Christ, and believe that we are a New Creation, we are not to consider ourselves as being of this world. We are Spirit according to Rom.8:8,9 And we are not controlled by any circumstances, they (circumstances) do not dominate the true believer.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Has the Word become a reality to you, or is it just a theory that some well meaning educated man told you about the logicality of the Word? The Word of God has not gained the ascendancy over their senses or intellect yet.
The Word must become a reality, or we will always be walking as mere men, or as natural man. And not as a New Creature we are created to be in Christ.
And in turn leads to a wavering faith, and we all know what James says about that.
Q.-how do we decide which promises of the abrahamic and mosaic covenants to apply to NT believers???
A.By being sensitive to the Holy Spirit and allowing Him to guide you, He will guide you into all truth.
Q.-2 Corinthians 1:20 "For all the promises of God in Him are Yes, and in Him Amen, to the glory of God through us."
Does this mean we can claim any promise we find anywhere in the old testament???
A.
If it is a promise of God to the Children of God, Yes!
Q.This might seem like an odd way to approach the errors of the prosperity message, but i believe it is one of, if not the, main sources of their error. the way they understand the old testament covenants in relation to the New covenant believer.
A.
Is not God the same yesterday, today and forever? He remains the same, but He deals with those under Grace differently than the ones that were under the law.
You know Brother David, the only ones that call it an error of the prosperity teachings, are the ones that don’t believe that the Word of God is actually God speaking to them.
It has never become a reality to them, it is all sense knowledge. Logical, reasoning, must be seen, felt, or heard, before they can believe it.
BTW ? Refresh my memory!
Brother David, thank you for wanting my input on this subject,
However I am not one of the “Blab it and Grab it clan”
However I am one that believes that all the blessings of Abraham are ours, Actually Christ’s and Christ is in me, so they are mine. Gal.3:28,29, I believe that the Old Testament is considered scripture, and I believe that it to was inspired by God, written by man as was the New Testament.
It is strange to me that so many Christians want to focus on the law and sin, and condemning other ministries for their beliefs when all of it has been dwelt with in Christ.
This is due to having a sin consciousness, not a righteousness consciousness.
Why can’t we just accept the free gift of Christ and let Him be the judge of who is in error?
I, like you, love everyone here and appreciate the input that all have to offer, I am not here to convince anyone that the prosperity or the healing teaching is the way to go. It is only to those that can believe anyway.
I, as Paul says, I come not with excellency of speech or of wisdom………..not to know anything among you, save Jesus Christ and Him crucified.
Be blessed as you read the Word of God for yourself and let the Spirit lead in the way of righteousness.
Because the anointing which you have received of Him abideth in you and you need not that any man teach you……1Jo.2:27
Love ya Bro. So Be blessed.
Your friend,
Joe -
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Great post Joe. Yes, I also believe in God's promises and in His blessing. I also believe we should 'prosper' as a 'part' of our testimony to others of the wonderful things God has done for us. However, our 'earthly wealth' is not the 'greatest' of our wealth, our salvation and our love for Jesus is our greatest wealth.
Jesus said, But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. Matthew 6:22
I think that means we should seek Him...and believe that He will care for us. That does not mean we should not work hard, be productive and prosperous on our own if we are able.....but in all our endeavors, do it all for the Kingdom and to bring Him Glory. -
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Joe –
Blessings beloved. I appreciate you taking the time to respond to me. After reading your responds it is obvious that our believes on the topic differed a bit, but not enough for me to want to continue discussing the issue. This is a secondary issue and I am being led, by God’s Spirit to let it go and simply share the following:
I believe we can pray for the sick and watch them heal before our eyes. I believe that if we are walking in the Spirit hahaha it’s a whole other ball game (life that is).
>>“We who experience God in this day may rejoice that we have in Him all that Abraham or David or Paul could have; indeed the very angels before the throne can have no more than we, for they can have no more God and can want nothing apart from Him. And all that He is and all that He has done is for us and for all who share the common salvation. With full consciousness of our own demerit we may yet take our place in the Love of God, and the poorest and weakest of us may without offense claim for ourselves all the riches of the Godhead in mercy given. I have every right to claim all for myself, knowing that an infinite God can give all of Himself to each of His children. He does not distribute Himself that each may have a part, but to each one He gives all of Himself as fully as if there were no others. AW Tozer
No one in their right mind wants to be poor. I don't think anyone in this site is against prospering in all things. As Christians we are to prosper in all things. However a Christian can be beautiful in Christ and be poor. I know you may disagree with that statement and that is ok my brother. A Christian can know the word, be faithful in giving and walk in holiness and still experience the harshness of living in a fallen world. Yet their treasures are abundant in heaven. Their true riches are in heaven, the joy and peace thy experience through it all is also wealth beyond anything we can acquire on our own.
Revelation 2:9
I know your afflictions and your poverty—yet you are rich! I know the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.
Beloved - I have experienced God's favor in my life so much throughout my life that I do not disagree with you that we prosper in all things.
>>Why can’t we just accept the free gift of Christ and let Him be the judge of who is in error?
Because He tells us to examine every spirit. He also tells us to contend for the truth Jude 3.
>>as Paul says, I come not with Excellency of speech or of wisdom………..not to know anything among you, save Jesus Christ and Him crucified.
Paul was speaking as a humble champion of our faith, but we all know Paul was beautiful in doctrine and eloquent in speech. The Gospel was mandatory for him to share with those that needed to hear it, but to those who are saved already we can move unto all the other doctrines found in scripture to make disciples.
Love you brother Joe. -
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Mary -
Love you and appreciate you. :) -
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Margaret, I do not think you need to back down. And I do not think anyone wants to shame you. I pray that you do in fact 'clearly understand' all the meaning of the Gospel for your doctrine. I have been studying, praying and reading for a long time, and although the Lord has revealed much to me, I would hesitate to say that I have a 'total grasp' of the scriptures. It boggles my mind continually...the meaning goes deeper and deeper, yet I find myself going back and 're-understanding' the most simple 'truths' in the bible that I had 'assumed' I already knew. We must be able to learn. The scripture does not change, but 'our understanding' of scripture certainly does. I am reminded of one aspect of the term 'parallax', ie "depending on the 'position' of the 'observer'.....the appearance of a thing can change". I pray you do not feel I am trying to 'peck a fight' with you. I am not. I have been on many forums where bickering and argueing, myself included, ruined many a good conversation. I would like to think that I have grown out of such childishness, and that I am able to participate in fellowship and conversation which is edifying to all. Civility is way more becoming than anger. (: I will pray that all here can look for where we agree, and build the body of Jesus Christ together. Amen
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Himself
By A.B. Simpson
Once it was the blessing
Now it is the Lord
Once it was the feeling
Now it is His Word
Once His gifts I wanted
Now the Giver own
Once I sought for healing
Now Himself alone
All in all forever
Jesus will I sing
Everything in Jesus
And Jesus everything
Once was painful trying
Now it’s perfect trust
Once a half salvation
Now the uttermost
Once ‘twas ceaseless holding
Now He holds me fast
Once was constant drifting
Now my anchor’s cast
All in all forever
Jesus will I sing
Everything in Jesus
And Jesus everything
Once ‘twas busy planning
Now it’s trustful prayer
Once ‘twas anxious caring
Now He has the care
Once ‘twas what I wanted
Now what Jesus says
Once ‘twas constant asking
Now it’s ceaseless praise
All in all forever
Jesus will I sing
Everything in Jesus
And Jesus everything
Once it was my working
His it hence shall be
Once I tried to use Him
Now He uses me
Once the power I wanted
Now the mighty One
Once for self I labored
Now for Him alone
All in all forever
Jesus will I sing
Everything in Jesus
And Jesus everything
Once I hoped for Jesus
Now I know He’s mine
Once my lamps were dying
Now they brightly shine
Once for death I waited
Now His coming hail
And my hopes are anchored
Safe within the veil
All in all forever
Jesus will I sing
Everything in Jesus
And Jesus everything
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Wow - That is beautiful.
:) Now why can't we all write like that?
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Permalink Reply by mario apalit on
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Some believers Falsely assume that lots of material possession are a sign of God's spiritual blessing. In Revelation 3:14-22 Christ was showing the Laodicea Church the true value was not in the material possession, but in the right relationship with God.
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