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Jesus & the Holy Spirit
Did Jesus wait to preach until He was 30 because that was when He become filled with the Spirit after baptism? But, Jesus is the Spirit, right? I've just been thinking about this lately and going back & forth with it. I must admit that I haven't looked into it deeper on my own but just wanted to see your thoughts on it. Thanks
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on
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What I always believed is that Jesus used His deity to do the miracles and that He could not have sinned because of His deity. I believed He took on the appearance of a man and was fully man but operated on earth out of both natures, God and man. Some miracles He did through the power of being filled with the Spirit but other miracles revealed His deity and also He was able to know hearts while on earth. I can't know anyone's heart.
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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How much of that knowledge was Spirit illiuminated? He once stated "Who touched me?" And proceeded to seek the answer to that question. As far as His diety revealed there are several excellent proofs beyond the miracles (so to speak) which attest to Him being the Messiah, the Son of God. He fulfilled prophecy. The signs and wonders alone could not be the proof and God did not leave us to that being the proof. God gave over 300 prophesies relating to the Messiah that Jesus fulfilled. 2) The resurrection.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Permalink Reply by Colby on
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LT,
Excellent points. The resurrection is the pivotal event of Christianity. As the Apostle Paul clearly lays out in First Corinthians 15, the resurrection is at the very heart of the Gospel. He opens with the words "by this gospel you are saved."
2 "By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance:
that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures." -
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I do understand there is more evidence than just the miracles that proves Jesus is the Messiah. Yet, Jesus Himself pleaded, Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves. John 14:11
I am positive that Jesus was very gifted with discernment. Was it through the Holy Spirit that Jesus knew Judas was going to be His betrayer? Was it through the Holy Spirit that "Immediately Jesus knew in his spirit that this was what they were thinking in their hearts, and he said to them, "Why are you thinking these things?" Mark 2:8. was it through the Spirit that Jesus knew what was in man? John 2:25
Maybe.
It could also have been through the all knowing and all seeing attribute of God.
I guess I am mostly unsure now because it says Jesus is the last Adam and Jesus was fully man as well as fully God. The fully man part of Jesus, just like the first Adam, had no sin nature but the first Adam before the Fall was able to sin. Jesus was fully God and God is not able to sin. So was there a conflict for Jesus between the two natures? Or as fully man, identifying with us completely in every way was Jesus not able to sin, although being found fully human, because He was fully God, too?
It doesn't seem to make sense that Jesus lived as only a man and never used His deity while on earth but did everything through the power of the Holy Spirit including preaching and yet used His deity to remain not able to sin. This is why I always thought that He did both while on earth, was fully man and fully God and operated out of both natures.
I don't know anymore. :( -
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Amanda,
In the context you put it regarding sin He does not use His deity to remain sinless ... He is deity. His actions can be by choice submitted to the working of the Holy Spirt.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Your belief is that Jesus lived on earth as a man filled with the Spirit and was impeccable.
My belief was that Jesus lived on earth as a man and as God and used both natures while here and was impeccable.
But I have been doubting my belief. Many think he could have sinned but did not sin. Many believe Jesus lived on earth as a man and struggled with temptation the same as we do and yet was without sin because He overcame as a man filled with the Spirit. They teach that we can do this also ... Be perfectly sinless and do even greater works than Jesus. Others teach that because we are born again, God sees us as sinless, just as sinless as Jesus was, and we can do the works and even greater works if only we had faith.
So I am confused. You even say you don't teach what you have stated as a doctrine but hold it as a personal opinion. So I don't know what to believe anymore and I guess I will stop here and drop it. Thanks for the exchange. -
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Amanda,
Two quick comments. Mostly for clarification.
1) I believe He was complete God and complete man while on earth and not just a man who was Spirit filled. He chose to veil His deity and operated from the human side and was empowered by the Holy Spirit to do the signs and wonders. He was never not God.
2) What I do not teach as doctrine is only the part that it was the Holy Spirit that did all these things through Jesus. That is my opinion. I do teach that He was and is sinless and cannot sin, for He is God and was God. I do teach that God sees us as forgiven and sinless as His children. I do not teach prefection, but that we are being perfected and it is God's responsibility to finish what He started and ours to aspire for perfection.
Lord Bless,
LT
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LT,
I’d like to continue the discussion now that you have clarified your stance if that’s OK? I am praying for wisdom about this as I think it is very important for us to properly understand the two natures of Jesus. As I study the Bible, I ask the Spirit to help me form the right questions to ask of those whom God has placed in authority – His under-shepherds – about a passage’s meaning. But a lot of the time I’m still not able to get across what I need or want answered … as you know … for we have gone round and round many times. Yet, in spite of it, I have learned some valuable truths from you, eternal security being one of them.
First, you said:
In the context you put it regarding sin He does not use His deity to remain sinless ... He is deity. His actions can be by choice submitted to the working of the Holy Spirt.
I think this helps me sort out something. While I always believed that Jesus was impeccable on earth, I always thought Jesus resisted the devil from the strength of His divine nature. We know Jesus did not battle the fallen flesh, so James 1:14 could never apply to Him, could it? What I mean is, Jesus could never suffer from that kind of temptation that comes from evil desires.As I have said, now I am wondering about my belief. God cannot sin and I guess it doesn't matter how much strength or power God has as far as sinning goes, for that is not what keeps God from sinning. God by definition can't sin. So what you have said helps me sort that out.
You said:
1) I believe He was complete God and complete man while on earth and not just a man who was Spirit filled. He chose to veil His deity and operated from the human side and was empowered by the Holy Spirit to do the signs and wonders. He was never not God.This is probably a stupid question, but did He veil His deity from Himself? It is difficult for me to think that Jesus could have had that kind of self-unawareness. But if Jesus veiled the attributes of His deity, such as being all-knowing and all seeing, then maybe He didn’t know He couldn’t give in to temptation. I said He was able to know hearts while on earth, to which you replied: How much of that knowledge was Spirit illiuminated? He once stated "Who touched me?" And proceeded to seek the answer to that question.
So, I am asking this:
If Jesus didn’t use His all knowing and all seeing attributes while on earth, would it mean that Jesus did not know that as deity He could not sin?Some say if He could not truly sin then He was not truly fully human.
Others say if yielding to temptation was not possible, then it would make the whole encounter He ever had of being tempted just a sham.Others say Jesus was impeccable but didn't know He was -- didn't know He couldn't yield to temptation and He was unaware of the impossibility that as deity He could not sin because He was not using that all knowing attribute during His life on earth and then temptation was very real to Him in His own conscious experience.
But this opens the door to many, many more questions, such as did Jesus know who He was, or did He have to learn Who He was during His earthly life, and during His struggle in Gethsemane, did Jesus really not know that there was no other way, making the struggle very real in His conscious experience?
You said:
2) What I do not teach as doctrine is only the part that it was the Holy Spirit that did all these things through Jesus. That is my opinion. I do teach that He was and is sinless and cannot sin, for He is God and was God. I do teach that God sees us as forgiven and sinless as His children. I do not teach prefection, but that we are being perfected and it is God's responsibility to finish what He started and ours to aspire for perfection.
Are you saying that Jesus did know He was deity but consciously chose to allow the Holy Spirit to work through Him? I agree that He was sinless and that the truth that He was impeccable must be the only right answer, too, and that we are seen by God as forgiven and sinless and are being perfected in our soul and our body will be glorified finally and we are already perfect in spirit and God started this and will finish it and the reason we have such a battle with the flesh is because we do aspire and long for that complete perfection.
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Amanda,
Yes, I will strive to respond to your new questions. I will post in a fresh link your full text and respond accordingly. The only problem is time. Over the next few days I will have very limited time to respond, but will respond ASAP.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Permalink Reply by Tammy on
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Why would He even be tempted if the fact He could not sin was true? Why even bother tempting Him? Just a thought.
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The why tempt Him part we may not be able to answer, but if He is God, which He is, He cannot sin, for God cannot sin (Dt. 32:4).
Lord Bless,
LT
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True, indeed, LT.
Jesus is God in human flesh (Jn1:14). Jesus is fully God and fully human; one man with two natures. He's not a super-human man or a man with a special and unique relationship with God. He is God made incarnate in Mary's womb by the power of the Holy Spirit (Lk 1:15).
Jesus lived as a man, even to the point of suffering and dying on the cross. However, as God (the Word made flesh), he was incapable of caving in to temptation or sinning. Just because God took on a human nature in Jesus didn't detract from his perfect nature. God cannot sin. Since Jesus is fully God, he is incapable of sinning. Jesus could be tempted, for he told Satan, "do not put the Lord your God to the test" (Ma4:7).
Why then did Satan tempt Jesus if it was futile exercise? Maybe we give the devil too much credit for smarts. :) Could it be Satan was just too dumb to know that his attempt to win Jesus over to his cause was doomed from the start (just as he thought the crucifixion was his great victory, when in fact it was his utter defeat)?
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