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healing
many people wander why some are healed and some arent what about a christian with cancer who hasnt been healed whats your view
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Permalink Reply by thewatchman on
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I do agree with Justin about the miraculous gifts, but perhaps that's another conversation for another time.
The main point was the focus of the question that Sheila had asked.
I thought that Justin laid it out nicely.
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on
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Ok, but you recommended starting at minute 32 and he sets the stage for what he begins to teach at minute 37, during those five minutes between minutes 32-37 of talking about Word of Faith and healing, and his point is that the miraculous gifts have ceased and he even asks if it could be that they'd already began to cease during Saint Paul's lifetime, and says that's why Saint Paul told Timothy to take a little wine for his stomach. It's one thing to teach that God doesn't always choose to heal but he clearly is teaching that the spiritual gift of healing has ceased, even though he says he believes God still heals. I believe both things are true -- God heals and the miraculous gifts are still given by the Spirit to whom He wills. Therefore, I thought you were trying to bring that point into the discussion. Not everyone agrees with his stance. Sorry if I misunderstood you.
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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The best I can offer at this time on this deep subject is a two part series I preached a few years ago.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Thank You LT, You wouldn't happen to have a text sermon on this would you? My Tablet is seeming to take forever to load it.
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I don't do text messages (sermons), but outlines. I will look to see if I can find it and then post it shortly.
Lord Bless,
LT
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The outline below is for message 2. I cannot find the article or the outline I used for the first message and of the two it is the primary one because it deals with what Divine Healing is not and what Divine Healing is. (this outline was originally done in one program and transferred to Word. In the process the layout and numbering have been altered make it a bit difficult to read or follow, but with the message it should be acceptable.)
Title: Healing #6
By Rev. Leonard R. TrainaThe story of the two men healed by Jesus. One with mud and the other without.
Mat. 8 - Spit in his eyes
Luke 18 - Spoke and opened his eyes
The church of the spittle and the church of no spittle“Provision is made in the redemptive work of the Lord Jesus Christ for healing of the mortal body. Prayer for the sick and anointing with oil are taught in the Scriptures and are privileges for the Church in this present age.”
1. Provision is made in the redemptive work of the Lord Jesus Christ for healing of the mortal body.
..A. What is the redemptive work of the Lord Jesus Christ.
....1) Define “Redemption” - Price for something - Paid
......I) Acts 20:28
......II) 1 Cor. 6:20
......III) 1 Cor. 7:23
....2) The payment was for the whole person - Wholistic
....3) Jesus died to redeem us, that is to heal us spiritually and to offer physical healing
..B. Provision has been made for us in the redemptive work of Christ for healing of the physical body
....1) What is a provision?
....2) How does it work? Claimed in faith
..C. The provision is for the mortal body
....1) Old Testament examples of healing
......I) Abraham prayed for Abimelech, his wife and slave girl so that they could have children again. Gen 20:17
......II) Miriam’s Leprosy - Num. 12:1-15
......III) Jeroboam at the altar - Man of God - Shriveled hand
.........Altar split in half - Healed - 1 Kings 13:1-6
......IV) Hezehiah - 15 years of added life - 2 Kings 20:1-7
......V) Elisha heals Naaman’s leprosy - 2 Kings 5:1-14
....2) Examples of healing by Jesus
......I) Nobleman’s son - Go , he is healed - John 4
......II) Pool of Bethseda - 38 years - John 5
......III) Man with leprosy - Mat. 8
......IV) Peter’s mother-in-law - Mat. 8
......V) Demon possessed - Mat. 8
......VI) Woman bleeding for 12 years - Mat. 9
....3) Today
......I) The ability to bring godly healing - Mark 16:18
......II) Special spiritual gift - 1 Corinthians 12:92 Prayer for the sick and anointing with oil are taught in the Scriptures.
..A. We are instructed to pray for the sick.....James 5:14-16
JAS 5:14 Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. 16 Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.
..B. Note that it does not say “call the apostles.”
....1) Healing did not cease at the end of the apostolic age.
....2) This is a ministry of the church today.
..C. What are the instructions given in Scripture?
....1) What is the Biblical process for the sick person?
......Note: this can include spiritual sickness
......A) Call the elders - v.14
........I) Call them to your home
........II) Call them to your hospital bed
........III) Call them in the church
......B) Why the elders? - v.14
........I) That is God’s instructions!!!
........II) They represent the spiritual leaders of the church
........III) Today people want to blend everyone together in service to God - “We all are believers” - But God, Himself, established an order in the church, ie pastors, elders, deacons, teachers, evangelist, etc... Read 1 Timothy 5:17
........IV) Does that mean that no one else can pray for the sick. Of course not, but that according to Scripture this is what should take place in obedience to God.
......C) Confess your sins. - v.16
........I) Healing does not come to a dirty vessel
.......II) Can God heal a dirty vessel or an unbeliever? Yes, to bring glory to Himself to fulfill His purposes
....2) What is the Biblical process for the elders? - v.14..
......A) Pray over them - includes laying on of hands
......B) Anoint with oil - Symbolic of the Holy Spirit Who will be the One Who brings the healing, not the elders.
......C) Done in the name of Jesus
3. Why doesn’t God always physically heal the sick?
..A. There are those who believe that he does.
....1) I am not sure how they explain death.
..B. Physical healing is a temporal fix.
....1) Ultimately, because of sin, we will some day physically die.
......A) Even Lazarus, after his resuscitation, died again.
..C. What are some reasons that people are not healed.
....1) Unconfessed sin on the sick persons part
......A) 2 Sam 12:13 - David, because of his sin was going to die. He confessed his sin and God relented.
......B) Psalm 32:3-5 David confesses and is healed
He was healed spiritually and spiritual healing many times leads to physical healing.
....2) Prayers being lifted by unrighteous people
....3) Unbelief - lack of faith
......A) I have no regular relationship with Jesus, but expect Him to answer when I call every time.
......B) The person praying has unconfessed sin in their life
........Psalm 68:18-20
.....3) The time for the person to pass has come.
......A) A calling home of the believer
......B) A call to judgment of the unbeliever
......C) God can extend the days of a person........2 Kings 20:4-6
....4) God has a greater purpose.
........David Lussier and my life
........He is in a better place.
........Do you think he wants to come back?Conclusion:
How many here feel that they have deep faith?
A faith that would equal that of Paul’s or Peter’s even?I tell you I believe that we do not see the moving of God in our midst to the degree He wants to because of our poor faith, lack of faith, or no faith at all.
We accept lies that tell us that these things ceased at the end of the apostolic age, therefore do not expect them. This relieves us from ever asking the tough questions.
It’s not supposed to happen therefore it won’t happen and I’m OK as I am.
To simply cast it off as “Its God’s will that we not be healed because He has other purposes for us” is another cop out. Though it may be true I believe that it is the exception, not the rule.
Where do you see recorded one time that Jesus said “It is not the Father’s will for you to be healed, therefore I will not heal you?”
Paul’s thorn is to ambiguous for us to discern exactly what this was, but acknowledge that he was not healed.
But, when we recognize that this is how God wants to work today, but isn’t working that way through us, or even for that matter most of the church today, we need to ask “Why not?”
Did God change? No!
Jesus did not heal many in Nazareth because of their lack of faith.
Pastor, how dare yo say that I was not healed because of my lack of faith. That is exactly what I am saying in most cases, and that probably is in your case as well.
Most people pray and don’t really expect God to work, I don’t care what your lips say, it is a heart matter.
And if you do not expect God to work, guess what, you are right. He won’t!!!
We, that is you and me, are a long way from the depth of faith we need to be living by and in.
To say you have great faith is pious, arrogant and dangerous. We need to see our poverty and hunger for more.
Most Christians have all of God they want. What a tragedy!!!
Our faith is revealed many times by how we respond to situations.
To see healing in our midst as the norm we need the following:
1. We need to be cleansed vessels
..a) Confession
..b) Repentance
2. Hunger and thirst after God
..a) Our hunger for or lack of hunger reveals our faith
..b) As your faith grows so does our hunger
..c) Christians are never supposed to be on spiritual diets.
3. We need to exercise our faith
..a) That is to trust in God to work as God
..b) To have an expectation
..c) Not just pray a dutiful prayer
..d) But a heart felt prayer that believes that God will act upon the prayer in power for His glory.
4. Wait patiently, while at the same time being persistent in our prayers for the sick.
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Thanks LT.
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Question: "Are the miraculous gifts of the Spirit for today?"
:First, it is important to recognize that this is not a question of whether God still performs miracles today. It would be foolish and unbiblical to claim God does not heal people, speak to people, and perform miraculous signs and wonders today. The question is whether the miraculous gifts of the Spirit, described primarily in1 Corinthians 12–14, are still active in the church today. This is also not a question of can the Holy Spirit give someone a miraculous gift. The question is whether the Holy Spirit still dispenses the miraculous gifts today. Above all else, we entirely recognize that the Holy Spirit is free to dispense gifts according to His will (1 Corinthians 12:7-11).
In the book of Acts and the Epistles, the vast majority of miracles are performed by the apostles and their close associates. Paul gives us the reason why: “The things that mark an apostle—signs, wonders and miracles—were done among you with great perseverance” (2 Corinthians 12:12). If every believer in Christ was equipped with the ability to perform signs, wonders, and miracles, then signs, wonders, and miracles could in no way be the identifying marks of an apostle.Acts 2:22tells us that Jesus was “accredited” by “miracles, wonders, and signs.” Similarly, the apostles were “marked” as genuine messengers from God by the miracles they performed.Acts 14:3describes the gospel message being “confirmed” by the miracles Paul and Barnabas performed.
Chapters 12–14 of 1deal primarily with the subject of the gifts of the Spirit. It seems from that text “ordinary” Christians were sometimes given miraculous gifts (12:8-10, 28-30). We are not told how commonplace this was. From what we learned above, that the apostles were “marked” by signs and wonders, it would seem that miraculous gifts being given to “ordinary” Christians was the exception, not the rule. Beside the apostles and their close associates, the New Testament nowhere specifically describes individuals exercising the miraculous gifts of the Spirit.
It is also important to realize that the early church did not have theBible, as we do today (2 Timothy 3:16-17). Therefore, the gifts of, knowledge, wisdom, etc. were necessary in order for the early Christians to know what God would have them do. The gift of prophecy enabled believers to communicate new truth and revelation from God. Now that God’s revelation is complete in, the “revelatory” gifts are no longer needed, at least not in the same capacity as they were in the New Testament.
God miraculously heals people every day. God still does amazing miracles, signs, and wonders and sometimes performs those miracles through a Christian. However, these things are not necessarily the miraculous gifts of the Spirit. The primary purpose of the miraculous gifts was to prove that the gospel was true and that the apostles were truly God’s messengers. The Bible does not say outright that the miraculous gifts have ceased, but it does lay the foundation for why they might no longer occur to the same extent as they did as recorded in the New Testament.
Read more:http://www.gotquestions.org/miraculous-gifts.html#ixzz3blxiD6J3I only posted Got Questions because that's what everyone seems to go to here...not because I am particularly a fan.
So is my take, that you believe that because our faith is small, nothing is happening regarding the people that are needing physical healing? So when we pray for those among us that are filled with disease or suffering, that it's because of our "small" faith that they die or stay in that disease? But if we have "big" faith that they will live? I don't know....I always thought it was because of God, if it were in His plan and purpose for our lives. Our call is to prayer, or intercession for them.
I will admit, I scanned the topic points, so please forgive me if I have misread.
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Watchman,
A quick response due to time limitation this AM. Will expand more later.
I have a lot of respect for Got Questions, but you will find that I don't always agree with them. With that said I will move to your primary question.
In the area of spiritual gifts, and especially the gift of healing, I think that there are three reasons, not one, that control the gifts. These three are faith, obedience and God's will (including His timing). Our faith cannot trump His will. We do not force Him if He has other plans. I beliee that many times we surrender to "well it must be God's will" way too quickly before we pray through and seek His face in a situation. I believe that without faith (understanding God's will can trump our lack of faith if He has a particular plan) we have no reason to expect God to respond and that includes Him bringing healing. I believe the Bibles teaches that there are various degrees of faith as illustrated in the Word. I think that most Christians get saved and stop there or never move very from from the starting line and thus remain in a very weak faith as applied to other topics beside salvation. I do believe this lack of maturing and moving on to deeper things in Christ retards His work through the church as it is not operating at a level that He has designed for her. i believe to acknowledge we have a weaker faith instead of great faith is a good sign that should prod us on to deeper things.
Thus, sometimes God does nto heal because it is His will, sometimes because the person is living in disobedience and at other times because there is no real faith (trust, belief) that God has promised and will do according to His Word.
Lastly, is that I believe all the gifts are for today. The exercise of the gifts as described in 1 Corinthians was to the church and not the apostles. I find it hard to believe that such a large portion of the letter was given to a topic that was going to die off in a matter of only a few decades and not be an impact on the church down through the ages.
Out of time ... hope that helps a little. (Did not proof this, so it is a first copy and I hope no mistakes :-)
Lord Bless,
LT
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It helped LT. Thank You
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