All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
Genuine Faith against, the “losing your salvation” notion
I have never felt easy with the statement, “losing your salvation,” or “once saved always saved.” Both are statements are made by human pride. Many who say, “once saved always saved.” seem to act anyway they want. The words Genuine Faith are connected with genuine repentance. Genuine Faith is Led by The Spirit. I will share more with responses. So there is a question, how do any of you see these things? Yet, if you truly are saved, Fruit is produced.
Views: 1987
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
-
Chris,
With a topic like this one of the important things is to first define "fruit." What does Scripture say regarding fruit in one's life? Secondly, we need to define fruit bearing. Is it continual or are there seasons. An orange tree is always an orange tree, yet visible edible fruit occur once a year for a period.
Lord Bless,
LT
-
Permalink Reply by a servant (Chris) on
-
LT
I ask all to forgive me for not being able to be here more. I have been called away. To answer your question however here goes.
The fruit I believe we bear is based on our relationship and faith in Jesus. As Jesus shared the Parable of the Sower we see, 15 But the seed in the good ground —these are the ones who, having heard the word with an honest and good heart, hold on to it and by enduring, bear fruit. Luke 8:15 In John 15 Jesus is very clear He is The Vine we are the branches. 4 Remain in Me, and I in you. Just as a branch is unable to produce fruit by itself unless it remains on the vine, so neither can you unless you remain in Me. 5 “I Am The Vine; you are the branches. The one who remains in Me and I in him produces much fruit, because you can do nothing without Me. John 15:4-5
We know what The Fruit of The Spirit is, 22 But the Fruit of The Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by The Spirit, we must also follow The Spirit. Gal 5:22-25 As we are led or follow The Spirit, Fruit of The Spirit is then seen in us. Not that we on our own produce or bear that fruit. Everything is based on our faith in Jesus. Yet, as we yield to The Spirit, this fruit is produced and shown in our actions.
As in Gal 5:22 we also see we see in James what fruit looks like and how it is produced in us. 17 But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peace-loving, gentle, compliant, full of mercy and good fruits, without favoritism and hypocrisy. 18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who cultivate peace. James 3:17-18
-
-
My desire in starting this discussion was first, obedience, second to share the Beautiful Truth that The I AM is our The Good Shepherd.
14 “I AM The Good Shepherd. I know My Own sheep, and they know Me, 15 as The Father knows Me, and I know The Father. I lay down My Life for the sheep. 16 But I have other sheep that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. Then there will be one flock, One Shepherd. 17 This is why The Father Loves Me, because I AM laying down My life so I may take it up again. 18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down on My own. I have the right to lay it down, and I have the right to take it up again. I have received this command from My Father. John 10:14-18
27 My sheep hear My Voice, I know them, and they follow Me. 28 I give them eternal Life, and they will never perish —ever! No one will snatch them out of My Hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is Greater than all. No one is able to snatch them out of The Father’s Hand. 30 The Father and I are One. John 10:27-30
The question about, once we are Born Again we can do whatever we want, is answered in many places. I am choosing to use Romans 6. Paul shares, “... Should we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Absolutely not!” v15. Once we have given our life to Jesus we change. The fruit is seen in our “good works.” Let us be clear, it is not our works that saves us. But, our good works are simply the Nature of our Relationship in Christ and by The Spirit we are led.
15 What then? Should we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Absolutely not! 16 Don’t you know that if you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves , you are slaves of that one you obey —either of sin leading to death or of obedience leading to Righteousness? 17 But thank God that, although you used to be slaves of sin, you obeyed from the heart that pattern of teaching you were transferred to, 18 and having been liberated from sin, you became enslaved to Righteousness. 22 But now, since you have been liberated from sin and have become enslaved to God, you have your fruit, which results in sanctification —and the end is eternal life! 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the Gift of God is eternal Life in Christ Jesus our Lord Rom 6:15-18,22-234 But when the Kindness of God our Savior and His Love for mankind appeared, 5 He saved us— not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His Mercy, through the washing of Regeneration and Renewal by The Holy Spirit. 6 He poured out This Spirit on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that having been Justified by His grace, we may become heirs with The Hope of eternal Life Titus 3:4-7
10 Now God has revealed these things to us by The Spirit, for The Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. 11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man that is in him? In the same way, no one knows the thoughts of God except The Spirit of God. 12 Now we have not received the spirit of the world , but The Spirit who comes from God, so that we may understand what has been freely given to us by God. 13 We also speak these things, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by The Spirit, explaining spiritual things to spiritual people. 14 But the unbeliever does not welcome what comes from God’s Spirit, because it is foolishness to him; he is not able to understand it since it is evaluated spiritually. 15 The spiritual person, however, can evaluate everything, yet he himself cannot be evaluated by anyone. 16 For who has known the Lord’s Mind, that he may instruct Him? But we have the Mind of Christ 1 Cor 2:10-16
20 But you, dear friends, as you build yourselves up in your Most Holy Faith and pray in The Holy Spirit, 21 keep yourselves in The Love of God, expecting the Mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ for eternal Life. 22 Have mercy on those who doubt; 23 save others by snatching them from the fire; have mercy on others but with fear, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh.
24 Now to Him who is able to protect you from stumbling and to make you stand in the presence of His Glory, blameless and with Great Joy, 25 to The only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be Glory, Majesty, Power, and Authority before all time, now and forever. • Amen Jude 1:20-25My hope is that we come together as one. This happens by our faith in Jesus Christ and we are led by The Spirit. To limit The Love of The Father is, pointless as well as fruitless. Genuine faith brings genuine repentance. We know that repentance means, change. However, the ability to change is our faith in Jesus Christ and The Spirit. As in 1Cor 2:12-13 12 Now we have not received the spirit of the world , but The Spirit who comes from God, so that we may understand what has been freely given to us by God. 13 We also speak these things, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by The Spirit, explaining spiritual things to spiritual people. Let us stand on The Word. Let us allow His Love to guide us, and Protect us under His Wings. Let His Peace rule our hearts.
5 He saved us— not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His Mercy, through the washing of Regeneration and Renewal by The Holy Spirit. Titus 3:5
-
Permalink Reply by Richard L. Broch, Sr. on
-
Greetings group,
Chris, thank you for a great discussion.
It takes two to tango.......right?
Our relationship with Almighty God, through Jesus Christ, is basically a two-way relationship......right?
A marriage between a man and a woman is a relationship.......right?
Okay, a marriage relationship might be broken by either mate because of some human reason. Happens all the time.
Let's just examine our relationship with the Heavenly Father for a moment. Sometimes the human element walks away from God. Happens all the time. BUT God will NEVER walk away from His human partner (John 10:28-30).
And one living example of that is found in Genesis 3. It was Adam and Eve who disobeyed, and were unfaithful to God.
God would have been content to have a 99,000 year lease for us in the Garden.
Before I say anything else about our relationship with God through His Son.............let me ask the 64 thousand $ question -
When would you specify......exactly.... when a person is actually saved.....and has his/her ticket stamped for eternity in heaven?
Of course, God knows. But we should have an answer to cover some of the discussion points in this thread.
What do you think?
-
Permalink Reply by ribbon on
-
When would you specify......exactly.... when a person is actually saved.....and has his/her ticket stamped for eternity in heaven?
Richard, your question is what I always wonder about. Im glad you asked it and I hope to see answers. Thank you.
-
Permalink Reply by thewatchman on
-
When would you specify......exactly.... when a person is actually saved.....and has his/her ticket stamped for eternity in heaven?
Actually....when you are standing before the Judge of eternal life. I believe that many are resting on God's salvation that don't really know Him. The Bible discloses this to us, that some are living lives that are entirely against Him.
How do we know that we are for or against Him? The proof is in the pudding so to speak. Number one: we cannot serve two masters, we serve evil or we serve the Lord in holiness. We choose every single day whom we shall serve and every moment of every day, we've made a choice to do right or wrong.
Joshua: 24-15
And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
This implies making a thoughtful decision, a choice, right? The Bible is clear and it will make us wise unto salvation.
-
Permalink Reply by Amanda on
-
It sounds like your love for God is measured by the amount of good works you produce and the amount of sin you have "flushed out" and I want to ask you what is the point of Jesus dying for us if it wasn't to give us new birth and real hope that can't be taken away and full pardon and complete cleansing for our sins, past, present, and future?
Was His sacrifice insufficient and His work so deficient and inefficient that we must complete it with our own works?
Do you know Him? Do you really know Him as your Redeemer? As your Savior? You keep saying things like you "believe that many are resting on God's salvation that don't really know Him. The Bible discloses this to us, that some are living lives that are entirely against Him" and yet you have no ability to know hearts but want to judge the salvation of others based on their works while you are resting on your works and sinless-ness.
Why did Jesus die? God could have avoided spilling His blood and could have just put the Spirit in people and told them now they have the power to go and sin no more and be holy and if they're good enough, they can enter into eternal life. What is the gospel of Christ?
-
-
watchman
I look a few of your comments, "The proof is in the pudding," "We choose every single day whom we shall serve and every moment of every day, we've made a choice to do right or wrong," and "making a thoughtful decision, a choice." Now as I look at these, you at least to me seem to be the power behind your decisions. Where does faith in Jesus come in to play?
I do not know how long you have been living for Jesus. I want also to be clear, I am not questioning your walk with The Lord. I can only speak for me, I have had times where I walked away. Made poor choices. I have been humbled so many times that, I have learned to see The Love of The Father in His Discipline, in those times. I have also been the prodigal son; the 1 He left the 99 to bring me back.
What I have tried to share is this, my faith in Jesus wins if against the choices I have made would be compared. There may even be rewards I have lost, due to those choices. However, my Salvation is solely based on my faith in Jesus. The reason I choose to live by The Spirit and not the flesh is, based on His Strength in my weakness. I am Blessed that I did not die in those times I chose my flesh. Not because I feel I would go to hell, but because I would have failed Him. Now as I started this discussion I stated the "once saved always saved" allows me to live in as much sin as I want and still be with Him in Heaven. I also stated, genuine faith brings genuine repentance (change). I choose based on the Nature of my Relationship with God The Father, God The Son, and God The Spirit. His Strength in my weakness; He chose me and in that calling I followed. Is there a big board somewhere that keeps score, of right and wrong choices? Keep in mind, God looks more at the heart than we consider. To hate is to murder.
I would rather depend on faith in Jesus than my actions. I never want to let Him down as I have in the past. However, I am still a work in progress. His Love has changed me there is no question. I want my actions to glorify Jesus everyone of them. I cannot trust me for my Salvation, it is to important. I will never argue about the need for repentance, which we know to mean change. Yet, I put my Hope in Him and not me. Faith is the only way. He will work out the rest in me. For that I fall to my knees and lift up my hands to, Praise The Name of Jesus; to Worship my Lord and Saviour. I fall to my face in Thanksgiving for Who He Is and all He has done.
-
-
Richard and confused
If I understand correctly what is being asked, I hope this will make things more clear. When I was born I became a part of a family. I had a Mom and Dad, a sister and brother. The meaning of all of that was completely unknown, I was a newborn. As I grew up things became more clear. At birth I was part of my family, the benefits, responsibilities of family I did not know. However, I was under the protection of my parents; of the whole family. As I grew up I became responsible, not only to original family but my younger brother and other family members, who were born later.
Now when we give our hearts and lives to Christ, do we know everything? Some have come to Christ at a very early age, others all different ages. One thing I believe to be true, as I have shared. Genuine faith is connected with genuine repentance (change). We see in Gal 2:16 Yet we know that a person is made right with God by faith in Jesus Christ, not by obeying the law. And we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we might be made right with God because of our faith in Christ, not because we have obeyed the law. For no one will ever be made right with God by obeying the law."
Do we come to Jesus or are we called? 28 We know that all things work together for the good of those who love God: those who are called according to His purpose. 29 For those He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those He predestined, He also called; and those He called, He also • justified ; and those He justified, He also glorified Rom 8:28-30 As in the first part of this I was born into my earthly family. I did not choose, it was not mine to do so. As I grew up my understanding of what my part was became clear. I did challenge my parents, I even ran away. Their Love for me was without question. My dad was a orphan and my mom's parents were not perfect. Yet, I never questioned their Love for me. I know I was and am Blessed.
I do not have much time right now and I will get back, yet I want to leave these thoughts and verses.
13 When you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and when you believed in Him, you were also sealed with the promised Holy Spirit. 14 He is the down payment of our inheritance, for the redemption of the possession, to the praise of His glory. Eph 1:13-15
21 Now it is God who strengthens us, with you, in Christ and has anointed us. 22 He has also sealed us and given us the Spirit as a down payment in our hearts 2 Cor 1:13-14
I believe when we give our hearts to Jesus we are given The Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit shows us many things and leds us in the direction we are to go. So no matter the age, if you truly give your heart to Christ, God is not mocked. Holy Spirit gives us Knowledge, Understanding and Wisdom.
One other thing to maybe throw a monkey wrench into the mix. Holy Spirit is only a Down Payment, we do not truly receive everything until we see Jesus.
5 even though we were dead in transgressions, made us Alive together with Christ—by Grace you are saved!— 6 and He Raised us up with Him and seated us with Him in the Heavenly Realms in Christ Jesus, Ephesians 2:5-6
So it is clear we are Saved by Grace. Our Salvation is based on our Faith in Jesus. We are Called to Him. As in others verses I have shared, I Love that fact that, "I AM is our Good Shepherd!" He will not lose us. He left the 99 for 1. I will return tomorrow. I hope I answered the question, OK. If not my Brother Richard, I know you will explain in easier terms for one like me.
-
Permalink Reply by RoyW on
-
Chris,
I am in love with that same Shepherd you speak of. He saved me as well. We are brothers forever. We are part of the same family even though we have never seen each other. When I learned that He had died for me, I began to follow Him. Who could love us this much? I am in total agreement with you. He will not lose even one. I am at rest with my soul.
-
-
Roy
Some wonder the meaning of, "The Joy of The Lord is our Strength." Roy your words answer that question with True Wisdom. "He will not lose even one. I am at rest with my soul. "
May the Lord continue to Bless and Keep you my Dear Brother.
Chris
Welcome to
All About GOD
The Good News
Meet Face-to-Face & Collaborate
© 2024 Created by AllAboutGOD.com.
Powered by
