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Genuine Faith against, the “losing your salvation” notion

I have never felt easy with the statement, “losing your salvation,” or “once saved always saved.” Both are statements are made by human pride. Many who say, “once saved always saved.” seem to act anyway they want. The words Genuine Faith are connected with genuine repentance. Genuine Faith is Led by The Spirit. I will share more with responses.  So there is a question, how do any of you see these things?  Yet, if you truly are saved, Fruit is produced. 

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Permalink Reply by RoyW on January 23, 2014 at 7:18am

Confused,

I am not the final judge or a judge in any part of the process. However, in my judgment, you are definitely a believer in God, His Word, His Spirit, His Son and all things spoken to us by God's Word. The faith you have proves you are chosen. I am thinking that you probably grew up in a very strict environment but could never live up to everyone's expectations or your own expectations and just gave up. If so, you are alike so many. 

God knows all those that believe in Him. He gave Jesus the responsibility to save them all and get them all home. He will not fail in that responsibility. You are like that one lost sheep that He left the ninety-nine for. He will do all that is necessary to get you home. That is where you belong and that is where you are headed. He will not fail you. You have His Word that if you believe in Him, He will get you all the way home. He will not fall short. I doubt if cussing is your worse sin but if it is, you are way ahead of the most of us. 

I know God loves you very much. I know that I can't get on AAG much but I do know that He created this site just for people like you. He wants you to know how much He loves you. He will stop at nothing, He has already proven that to us. We are safe. We are very safe. We do not have to worry any longer about our salvation. We do still need to worry about doing wrong. Our Father will discipline us very strongly to get us to do what we need to do. He will be faithful to do that. I get so upset when He disciplines me but I know He is doing it for my own good. I need a strong disciplinarian. I have One. He is very faithful to let me know how far in my walk with Him that I still need to go. He will get me there and He will get us all the way home. He is faithful to all those who believe in Him. I love Him very much. 

Blessings.

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on January 23, 2014 at 5:04am

Confused,

The question is not whether a child of God should sin or not, for the Bible is clear that we are called out of darkness and into the light, and called to holy living. The question is what consequences does the child of God face when he/she does sin. Hebrews 12 gives us the answer. Our Father, because as  child of God we can call Him Father because we have been Spiritually born of Him, will discipline us for our good.

I will also add a different voice regarding Roy. He is not advocating that sin is acceptable. He believes sin is an abomination to God. He also believes, like me, that our salvation is IN CHRIST and CHRIST ALONE. There is a right way to live, but not out of fear of losing something, but rather because we love Him. (short synopsis that Roy can correct if I misinterpreted him)

Permalink Reply by ribbon on January 23, 2014 at 5:15am

LT, You know I am always confused with this salvation teachings. I do believe that the bible teaches that the born agains are called out of darkness and into the light. I think my thing my thoughts are on the scriptures about the wide road and the narrow road. Go  and sin no more, do not do this and do not do this. Trust in the Lord ..... follow Him .. love your neighbor as yourself..... <things like that.  I believe those things like yall do. My concern is on false faith in believeing that dark and light look and are the same. Is there a such thing as false faith?  I hope you know I am not neing sarcastic. Maybe these things in this discussion is part of what is hindering me to come to Christ. Because there isn't anyone who cant stand myself more than I do.

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on January 23, 2014 at 5:22am
  • Is the narrow road one's actions or is it Jesus?
  • Go and sin no more is the call of the Christian life, yet the woman to whom Jesus spoke those words had no indwelling power of the Holy Spirit (pre death and resurrection of Jesus) to even come close to accomplishing these things. Her call was to not return to the same life of sin (adultery), for if that command meant any or only one sin she surely failed and is in hell now.
  • There are bad teachings out there that try to give the child of God or the religious freedom to do whatever they want without consequence. That is in error. Thus, in the debate over eternal security there are more than just two camps (one believing you can lose it and one believe you cannot lose it).
  • For you personally the question is not whether you hate your self. In some regards that is a good place to be as long as you do not stay there. The question is do you know that Jesus loves you and is willing to forgive you and call you one of His own. His love is real and His offer true.
  • I have to head out and will be gone most of the day, thus if you reply it will be a while before I can get back to you.
Permalink Reply by ribbon on January 23, 2014 at 5:40am

LT

Is the narrow road one's actions or is it Jesus?

To me the narrow road is for the chosen ones. The road is made by Jesus. I have always pictured a narrow very country rocky and steep windy narrow road. I don't mean to though.

  • Go and sin no more is the call of the Christian life, yet the woman to whom Jesus spoke those words had no indwelling power of the Holy Spirit (pre death and resurrection of Jesus) to even come close to accomplishing these things. Her call was to not return to the same life of sin (adultery), for if that command meant any or only one sin she surely failed and is in hell now.

LT , I am not saying ... Christians wont fail not saying they wont sin again. What I am saying is that there are people who have absolutely no desire to change their sinful lifestyle for believing it is alright to continue because of what Jesus did on the cross. I know Jesus took on and payed for the sin.... but To me this is false sence of salvation... . If Jesus is living in them ... why isn't there a desire to turn from self and go forward? This woman you mention...Is she the one at the well? The one who wasn't married but lived with men? If I remember correctly she stopped... didn't she?  Also , even though I am not Christian... it still concerns me about people being saved. It is still my desire that people get saved. I know and yes I know I should be concerned about my own soul.

  • There are bad teachings out there that try to give the child of God or the religious freedom to do whatever they want without consequence. That is in error. Thus, in the debate over eternal security there are more than just two camps (one believing you can lose it and one believe you cannot lose it).

I agree

  • For you personally the question is not whether you hate your self. In some regards that is a good place to be as long as you do not stay there. The question is do you know that Jesus loves you and is willing to forgive you and call you one of His own. His love is real and His offer true.

I not know if He loves me or not.... and the things and words I have done and said in the past... How could a God of love... even begin to invite me into His kingdom?

Permalink Reply by RoyW on January 23, 2014 at 6:17am

Confused,

I know He loves you since He says so in His Word. I doubt seriously that your sins even come close to those of David's. Fortunately, your sins are not posted in the most popular Book in the history or mankind for all to see. God tells us all about David's terrible sins and then lets us know just how much He loves David anyway. 

Confused, you don't hold a candle as far as your sin goes to some of the greatest people of all time in God's family. You are not sure if you are chosen. Do you believe in Him. If so, you are. Are you not sure if He is real? Are you not sure whether or not Jesus came to this earth and was real? Do you believe Jesus, the Son of God and God the Son, died on the cross for our sins of all mankind? If you do believe these things, you belong to Him. He will never let you go. You may try to hold on to your guilt but eventually you will let it go and realize He is perfect and you are always going to be imperfect until He comes to bring You home to be with Him. If you believe in Him, you belong to Him. There is nothing left for you to do. You will do everything necessary for your salvation. There is no escaping it. 

If you believe, you are chosen. It is simply that simple. Don't worry about who is chosen and who is not chosen. That is something you or I will never figure out. He has no problems with that one. Just let Him handle that problem. He knew before He ever laid the foundations of this earth all those that would come to Him. You talk of God as though you believe in Him. You talk about heaven and hell as you really believe they are real places. I may be wrong but I think you do believe. You feel so much guilt over your past and present sins. I am encouraging you to give that to God. He will take all that pain away. 

David is dancing in heaven and so will you and I. It is only because of Christ that any of us will be there. But thanks to Him, we will be there. That is our home. Home is where the heart is (pretty corny, huh) and I can tell that your heart is not in hell. 

Permalink Reply by RoyW on January 23, 2014 at 2:29pm

No, a very concise interpretation of my thinking. It just takes me a lot longer to say it.

Permalink Reply by thewatchman on January 23, 2014 at 9:22pm

I wasn't 'teaching', I quoted from the Bible.

I would encourage all to look to Him, the Author and Finisher of our faith.

I do.  I am too weak to ever attain that perfection in myself, never once did I say that I was, ever, anywhere here, if so, please find that and I will apologize.  But  with God all things are possible.  I can resist the devil, I can flee from temptation, I am a New Creation in Christ Jesus, I can be holy, this is all with God, not without Him and doing it all myself.  I'm not boasting, I'm not walking around with a puffed up chest or thinking that I'm more saved than someone else...This is not me at all.  My concern comes from people saying that others will be saved just because they believe in Jesus as Savior...but neglect the Lordship.  Following Christ Jesus is borne out of a deep and abiding love in Him.  I'm troubled by this lack of  repentence and sorrow about sin and the flip way it's treated.  It's an offense to a Holy God and it's become so minimized that now we refer to it as 'mistakes'.  It hurts me.  Everyone keeps saying you cannot stop sinning, whereas my Lord and Savior has asked me to stop...whom shall I believe?  Is the Lord lying when He asks us to go and sin no more, knowing that we can't stop sinning and that we will continue to do so until death or His coming?  

Is this true?  

Hebrews 12:4--

Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

Hebrews 5: 8Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; 9And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

The Bible does declare responsibility on our part... if not, then how do we understand such apostolic statements as 'I fight', 'I run', 'I keep under my body', 'let us cleanse ourselves', 'let us labor', 'let us lay aside every weight'? Surely these statements do not express a passive condition, nor do they indicate that by one single act we may possess the experience of 'victory' and thus become spiritual and mature Christians?

I'm truly perplexed. 

Hebrews 5

The Perfect High Priest

(Psalm 110:1-7)

1For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins: 2Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity. 3And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins. 4And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.

5So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.

6As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

7Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; 8Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; 9And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; 10Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

Warning against Drifting Away

11Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. 12For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. 13For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 14But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Permalink Reply by RoyW on January 24, 2014 at 3:34am

Watchman,

I will not be able to answer today but I completely agree with you on just about all points. We do have responsibility. However, where I would disagree is in the area concerning my salvation. I personally believe that is His responsibility. He is the One doing all the saving. God gave Jesus the responsibility to get me there. He removed all my responsibility to be made whole. He does that. He does all the saving. I merely receive that because I believe in Him. 

Concerning my responsibility to live a holy life, I concur. I do not advocate that it is okay for us to live a life of sin. Yet, I acknowledge that I still do sin and still need Someone to take care of all that sin for me. That is Jesus' task. In fact, He has already done that, even before I was born. My faith in Him causes that eternal sacrifice to be applied to my life. I am made completely whole. The salvation part is taken care of. It is finished. 

Blessings. 

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on January 24, 2014 at 6:51am

Watchman,

  • None of us are disagreeing that sin is an abomination in God's sight. (I acknowledge that there are people who claim to be Christian and believe that one can live any way they want with out consequence ... that is not us)
  • None of us disagree that there are consequences for sin, even in the life of a child of God.
  • None of us are disagreeing that we are to strive to live holy lives, but yet recognize we still live in the fallen flesh that wars against us.
  • None of us disagree that Jesus is Lord and Savior.
  • None of us believe that obedience is an option.

We disagree, for the most part, on one primary point. You, whether you realize it or not, put the responsibility for remaining saved on the individual ( you) instead of Jesus. Salvation is all of God start to finish. Our response to that great salvation is to live for Him, but not out of fear that if I do not I will be cast away, but rather because I now know Him and live Him I am compelled to lived for Him by that great love and desire to please Him.

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on January 24, 2014 at 6:59am
Permalink Reply by Amanda on January 24, 2014 at 12:06pm
Watchman,

You said: "I wasn't 'teaching', I quoted from the Bible."

However, you are using those quotes to support your POV. You must understand that all of us can explicitly pull out excerpts from a text, be it Scripture or secular writings, and make inferences about our own point of view. Right? Textual evidence and inference are both methods used to teach.

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