Bondage

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Permalink Reply by Carla on November 19, 2013 at 11:32am

Seek,

 Joy is often misunderstood.  It's not happiness.  Everything I'm going through can't compare with God's Greatness.

 Joy is not the same as happiness.  Joy is a fruit of the Spirit because of Spiritual things, not physical things.

We are joyful because our names are written in the book of life.  Luke 10:17-20. 

Rev 13:8.  The book of life belongs to God and our names have been written in it from the foundation of the world.

Psalm 39:4 says our lives are a mere breath compared to eternity.  We will be in heaven eternally.

We are also joyful because when we study the scriptures we have a certain Joy over the discovery.  Joy can perhaps be described as a treasure which is hidden.  Matt 13:44.  Luke 2:10.  We have Joy when we discover the One perfect treasure-- Jesus Christ Messiah.  It's the supernatural result which flows from the glorious discovery of our Lord and Saviour in every circumstance where we wish to find Him. 

James 1:3,4

² My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, ³ knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience. ⁴ But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing.

Phil 4:4 ... Rejoice in the Lord always.. I will say it again-  Rejoice! (paraphrased)

Perhaps the presence, purpose and power of God is best discovered through difficulty.   Joy is the result of discovering the person, power, and plan of God in our many circumstances.  This is why persevering is so important.

 We are also Joyful because we have been restored.  Psalm 71:20, 23

In Phil 3:10 Paul said:

¹⁰ that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, ¹¹ if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.

Notice that Paul said "If, by any means, I may attain..."  Paul wants to know Jesus and the power of His resurrection by any means.  This brings him Joy.

We are also Joyful because we cling to Christ..  We abide in Him. (John 15:11)

We know that apart from Him we can do nothing.. His word abides in us, and this brings Joy.

We are also Joyful because we know we are not alone...there are many brothers and sisters walking with us in this life.  We take great joy in watching each other grow and learn and be encouraged.

Sometimes we quite simply become exhausted and we may lose our Joy.

How do we get it back?  We get it back in God's presence.  He is our Joy for all of the reasons listed above.  Continue to depend on Him as you are.

 Blessings, Carla

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Permalink Reply by Seek on November 19, 2013 at 11:41am

When I'm in His presence, I'd love to find out how to just stay there.  I mean, shut out the world, everything, and just listen.  But it's impossible.  Life intervenes and I can't just stay quiet and listen forever and never concentrate on the day-to-day routines that must be done.  And then those day-to-day calamities steal the joy back away because there's been so much pain and stress involved in them.

And maybe that's what so many church members look at.  Maybe they confuse happiness with joy and if you're not smiling, they tell you you're not supposed to act that way.  Blech.  I get so tired of being told how I should act as a Christian.  Sometimes I wonder if they honestly know how a Christian should act or if it's just their religious teaching hangups.

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Permalink Reply by Carla on November 19, 2013 at 11:52am

hmmm..  this verse comes to mind:

Romans 12

¹⁴ Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. ¹⁵ Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep. ¹⁶ Be of the same mind toward one another. Do not set your mind on high things, but associate with the humble. Do not be wise in your own opinion.

 

perhaps they need to be reminded of a few things  "weep with those who weep and Do not be wise in your own opinion."

 

Hang in there Seek... Take everything to God.. especially the comments which fellow Christians say to you.

Permalink Reply by Seek on November 19, 2013 at 12:03pm

This is exactly something I'm speaking to my counselor on tonight.  It's part of what has brought me so much turmoil.  All along I've tried to listen to that inner voice I felt was God, and yet I kept hearing....God says this and that, and quoted verses to show me things that were not lining up with what I was hearing.  So since they're the more learned/supposedly wiser Christians, I thought maybe it's not God and yet my own desires I hear.  And that's been a major point of turmoil and confusion for me.  And that inner turmoil/confusion with all my illnesses and massive stress in my life has been keeping me falling into depressed states.  I haven't had a bad bout now for nearly a month and really feel God said I won't have another.  Even had prayer in agreement on it as an accountability and marked down the date.  But I've had a low level of it since.  Not completely gone, but not a deep pit anymore. 

Like I sent my counselor earlier in message.  Here are just a couple things I feel God says and what people/church says:

I haven't been able to really pay all my tithes the last couple of months.  God blessed me with two bonuses within under 6 months, yet there are so many things unpaid and money that should be coming in that hasn't.  And feel God says don't stress that He knows I want to and that I can pay what I can.

But that isn't what the CHURCH says. 

I feel He says don't try and jump in to help out at church in everything, yet I feel so useless.  He wants me to concentrate on taking care the matters in life right now that need my attention, (ie: Mike, court, illness, etc.). 

Yet so many sermons and church members preach tithing and giving your time, and I realize I have nothing to give in either most times.  I try and then I get frustrated.  So who's right, what I hear that I feel is God or what I hear in the church? 

And some say what I feel God is saying is right and some say we're supposed to tithe and help out, and the two butt against one another and I want to believe what I hear from God and yet worry I may just be hearing wrong and doing wrong.  And that's just been my continual turmoil in all this that irritates me way down that I can't seem to shed.  That bondage of feeling so wrong about anything I do and worried about making a mistake...since I made so many it's why I wanted God to take over my life in the first place.  I'm tired of the mistakes and wanted Him to tell me what to do so I can stop doing everything so horribly wrong. 

Does any of that make any sense?

Edited to add:  I get more stressed trying to do things on the little time I have (like help with coat/clothing drives, buying gifts for Christmas boxes for underprivleged kids - Christmas Missions, giving to the missions trips when I don't feel I have it to give extra, trying to hold a lifegroup meeting during the week.  I so want to go to the Greenbrier Saturday and help wrap gifts for underprivleged kids, and yet it is all day with a hyper 8 yo?  I can't.  My mom is going and my daughter is tied up.  And if I do, I have to put off groceries and laundry for Sunday after church...just nothing gets done.  So I get the sermons to help, and I WANT to.  So I attempt it and I get MORE stressed.  While people say to concentrate on others so you won't be thinking about your own problems. 

Permalink Reply by Carla on November 19, 2013 at 12:24pm

Seek,

I believe with all my heart that God's voice is filled with Grace, Forgiveness and Freedom.

 

In regards to tithing, I believe that God does bless us when we give, but He wants to us give cheerfully...

consider this:

2 Corinthians 9:

9 I really don’t need to write to you about this ministry of giving for the believers in Jerusalem.^{[a] 2} For I know how eager you are to help, and I have been boasting to the churches in Macedonia that you in Greece^[b] were ready to send an offering a year ago. In fact, it was your enthusiasm that stirred up many of the Macedonian believers to begin giving.

³ But I am sending these brothers to be sure you really are ready, as I have been telling them, and that your money is all collected. I don’t want to be wrong in my boasting about you. ⁴ We would be embarrassed—not to mention your own embarrassment—if some Macedonian believers came with me and found that you weren’t ready after all I had told them! ⁵ So I thought I should send these brothers ahead of me to make sure the gift you promised is ready. But I want it to be a willing gift, not one given grudgingly.

⁶ Remember this—a farmer who plants only a few seeds will get a small crop. But the one who plants generously will get a generous crop. ⁷ You must each decide in your heart how much to give. And don’t give reluctantly or in response to pressure. “For God loves a person who gives cheerfully.”^{[c] 8} And God will generously provide all you need. Then you will always have everything you need and plenty left over to share with others. ⁹ As the Scriptures say,

“They share freely and give generously to the poor.     Their good deeds will be remembered forever.”^[d]

¹⁰ For God is the one who provides seed for the farmer and then bread to eat. In the same way, he will provide and increase your resources and then produce a great harvest of generosity^[e] in you.

¹¹ Yes, you will be enriched in every way so that you can always be generous. And when we take your gifts to those who need them, they will thank God. ¹² So two good things will result from this ministry of giving—the needs of the believers in Jerusalem^[f] will be met, and they will joyfully express their thanks to God.

¹³ As a result of your ministry, they will give glory to God. For your generosity to them and to all believers will prove that you are obedient to the Good News of Christ. ¹⁴ And they will pray for you with deep affection because of the overflowing grace God has given to you. ¹⁵ Thank God for this gift^[g] too wonderful for words.

I've prayed about tithing regularly... because I can't.  my husband works and I don't.   We give to many causes, but not to the 'church' as he sees it.  We give to the cause of Christ, but not to a building.  It was something that I struggled with, and have spent a lot of time in prayer over it.  My husband supports the things we do give to, but he does refer to them as 'Carla's interests'.  I feel sadness over not being able to give to the church building, but I also feel peace....not because I give to other things, but because I am to honor my husband and he is the leader of our family.  I give generously in what he will allow, and humbly submit to him being accountable to God....and I leave it there.  I realize your situation is different, but as you continue to pray about it God will bring you to a point of peace over it as He has done for me.

 

In Regards to ministry...  This is something I have also struggled over and am presently praying through another ministry offer I received a couple of months ago.  The role is very interesting to me... but I have to pray through my motivation for accepting or turning it down. 

 

God does not want us exhausted... and sometimes we go through seasons where our ministry is our families.  too many families are broken and lost because the parents of the family are running around doing many good things everywhere else but in their own homes.  You're a mom of a young child with special needs....and dealing with extra stuff on top of that.  Discern condemnation and guilt... and once you have discerned those things run away from them.

 

Blessings, Carla

Permalink Reply by Seek on November 19, 2013 at 12:34pm

I think that's the problem Carla...still trying to figure out condemnation vs. conviction. 

I was paying tithes on my check, on child support (which isn't really my income and isn't even considered as income, etc.) and was feeling I was wrong not paying on gross, but I paid on net and then paid on my tax refund too, and that was tight.  Then I've had medical expenses, child support is way overdue, the daycare was 3 weeks behind until some money came in, Mike needed glasses, car issues, and so on, and the money kept running out.  Yet I paid on the support, paid to all the mission trips, gave to the Pastor's birthday and so on.  I did it joyfully in that I really really WANT to be able to give, to have over and above to just hand it to anyone in need and feel I'm contributing and not a dredge on others. 

But the more I kept wanting to give, the broker I got.  And I even wondered if God was trying to get me to back off and not feel so "obligated", that I was doing it because of what I've been "taught" and He's trying to reteach me or something.  As it is with teaching.  I know this is something God had led me to do, and yet trying to break out and do it now so I can feel useful hasn't worked out and has frustrated me.  And I think all that frustration is part of what deepens that depression.  I am under a LOT of stress and for many years.  Between illness, court, finances, Mike's needs, housing issues, car troubles, work related stress, etc.  It's just not a normal run of stress, but massive/major stress.  And I've always handled stress terribly.  I can honestly say I am 10 to 1 better at handling simple stress now and maybe that is the entire reasoning.  But I still don't WANT the stress.  Yet I used to sit and cry and get all worked up over a flat tire.  That don't happen now.  I shrug it off.

Permalink Reply by Carla on November 19, 2013 at 12:40pm

It sounds like you are working it through..

 

We should start a new discussion..  Condemnation VS Conviction.

It's an important distinction... Would you like to start it, or do you want me to.  I'm running out for errands now... but can check back tomorrow for sure.

Permalink Reply by Seek on November 19, 2013 at 12:46pm

I think I have somewhat started that before LOL.  But reading it and discerning it are worlds apart.  If you want to start it and send a link.  I won't have time to get to it today and maybe not for the week.  Don't really know what to say on it.  But may have something to respond when I see what others are saying, or find something that will be helpful for me.

Permalink Reply by ScribeD on November 19, 2013 at 9:53pm

Dear Seek, you have some great counsel here. Carla is very right that satan will try to turn questions of faithfulness into bondage and condemnation. (Been there, got that shirt...)

In my opinion, it's good to take consistent small steps of faith and obedience, rather than try to solve great huge things all at once. Watch how God answers them. There are more ways to demonstrate sacrificial giving than tithing. But, God likes to use money as a way to test us because he knows we mortals have such difficulty when it comes to money.

I know and understand the dilemma you face. What I found in my own situations in the past was that as I trusted God to answer those things in small ways, I found the faith to trust him in bigger things. And when I deliberately "tested" him, by having a secret time of prayer about what I was going to do and asking him to prove himself to me, He was always faithful to give me something far greater in return than my meager sacrifice.

If you can't afford a regular "tithe", set consistently aside something that may be a personal sacrifice, yet won't cause you to forsake your responsibilities. Pick something that you will have to do without, put that specific amount aside and pray for God to multiply your offering. Give that offering and watch (Remember the "widows mite" which was not just about an amount but about her great faith in God).

For you, it may mean actually forsaking a meal; or perhaps a small personal luxury that you keep for yourself. But, make that specific amount an offering to the Lord and ask him to specifically bless it. Then watch what he does. My estimation, from experience, is that when he knows you are committed to it, He will find a way to reward that faithfulness in a way that is more rewarding than whatever it cost you.

Whatever you do, whether you eat or drink, do it for the glory of God. Make it a secret between you and him. He will reward you openly for your secret act of faith. If you are consistent, I think you will find it is a wonderful secret blessing that he will give you in how he rewards your acts of obedience.

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Permalink Reply by Seek on November 20, 2013 at 6:50am

That's part of the issue.  I went to a Christian financial counselor and did a budget for him.  He looked it over and said:  You don't have any unreasonable expenses...these are all necessities.  BUT....you haven't listed groceries. 

That's when I explained that my check only meets the bills without grocery money.  My tax refund is kept in savings throughout the year to buy groceries with.  But this past year, I was met with a lot of unexpected expenses that ate up that savings and then some.  Throughout it all, I paid above and  beyond tithes, but the last month and a half, I've only paid some.  I think, pay it from the savings left and then I'm depleted again and waiting on God to pull "another" miracle bonus?  Or use wisdom, get the bills paid and pay the tithes and offerings I can as best I can until I'm in a position to pay above and beyond again.  I was actually never in the position to pay above and beyond but tried to anyway thinking that's what was required and wanting to do what was right.  I believe God is trying to show me to stop paying out of guilt and that I've paid and paid and He knows I want to keep paying, but not to stress it if I cannot. 

Permalink Reply by Carla on November 19, 2013 at 11:38am

Paul was confident in God's ongoing work in their lives and it brought him great Joy.

 

I personally am filled with Joy in many brothers and sisters during times of fellowship and sharing of testimonies.  It brings we great joy knowing that others recognize God at work and they themselves rejoice in it also..  Joy is contagious, and there are many many reasons to be joyful.

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Permalink Reply by Carla on November 19, 2013 at 12:30pm

I don't see that you have a weak faith.. I see that you are very determined and that you are persevering.  I see that you are quite bold in your faith... It's what I see here on AAG..  I'm assuming that you act the same offline.

 

Blessings., Carla

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