Body-Soul-Spirit OR Body and Soul/Spirit?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Colby on August 6, 2012 at 1:34pm

Amanda,

*/ If only our spirit is protected by the spiritual armor, then what?
Why has God left us so unprotected? /*

Good questions.

• Does the spiritual armor of God, which Paul writes about in Ephesians 6, apply to our entire being (body-soul-spirit or body and soul/spirit), or just to our spirit?

• If the spirit only, what are the practical implications of this?  Ephesians 6:11 says: "Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil. 
  Are there holes in the armor, leaving our bodies and souls exposed; that only our spirits are shielded?  Is that what Paul is saying?

• What does the Bible mean exactly when it says that the believer is a "temple of the Holy Spirit?" (see 1Cor3:16; 1Cor6:19; Eph2:22)

Faith, hope and love,

Colby

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Permalink Reply by Colby on August 6, 2012 at 1:13pm

Rita,

*/ God said, "Let us make man in our image." 
I believe that the image is the triunity of man ... spirit, soul, body. /*

Interesting observation.  I've come across this analogy before.  The idea being that just as God is triune, a tri-unity, so is man, and that the Trinity is reflected in our being.  Thank you for contributing to this discussion by sharing your point of view.

Faith, hope and love,

Colby

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Permalink Reply by Rita Cullimore on August 5, 2012 at 8:59am

Amanda,

I agree with you. One though I do have, however, is that God has armed us...with His Word. If we put it to work, we will overcome any and all problems. We have to utilize our faith in order to accomplish this. So then my question becomes...do we utilize our faith? Do we actually use it? I believe the more we use it, the more it grows. Just like exercising our body, the more it gets exercised, the stronger it is.

I also agree with your statement about oppression. I have never thought that a Christian could be possessed. However, oppression is something else again. I believe that oppression occurs when we don't, won't or can't resist a demon. They will get on us, and if we don't resist, the become of a more permanent nature.

Blessings....

Rita

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Permalink Reply by Colby on August 5, 2012 at 1:11pm

Christine,

That is so true.  The Holy Spirit leads us to faith in Christ; causes us to be born anew, becoming new creations in Christ; seals and annoints us with God's saving grace; fills us with God's love; leads us to truth, wisdom and discernment in the ways of God; glorifies God the Father and God the Son; and sanctifies us by conforming us daily to the character of Christ.

Let Christ's grace, mercy and be with us in truth and love,

Colby

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Permalink Reply by Amanda on August 5, 2012 at 7:14pm

Rita, I don't know who among us would not want to resist :)

God has promised in 1 Cor that
13 No temptation[c] has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted[d] beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted,[e] he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it.
So we can't play the card that says I can't resist.
I suppose Saint Paul experienced something of a permanent nature but that was God's will for him.

I recently started back into therapy about a month and a half ago. It is psychodynamic psychotherapy and I am sure not everyone would agree with it even though she is a Christian counselor who received a degree in marriage and family therapy from a theological seminary. But I think it is interesting and one of the precepts is that the mind and body are viewed as one functional unit. There is a deep mind-body connection. I do believe most of the battle between the spirit and the flesh takes place in the mind but a demon is not always the primary cause of it, although they certainly are at times. I think the flesh is my greatest enemy, the self.

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Permalink Reply by Colby on August 5, 2012 at 7:33pm

Amanda,

I'm glad you brought up St. Paul because I'm currently reading Thomas Schreiner's book, "Paul, Apostle of God's Glory in Christ: A Pauline Theology."  He makes some interesting points in a chapter devoted to St. Paul's suffering, which are in line with your supposition that his suffering "was God's will for him." 

          The pain that Paul endured was the means by which the gospel was extended to the nations.  Suffering was not a side effect of the Pauline mission; rather it was at the very center of his apostolic evangelism.  His distress validated and legitimated his message, demonstrating the truth of the gospel.

           Paul's life as a missionary was marked by suffering from its inception.  God promised him at his call that his mission and suffering would be intertwined (Acts 9:15-16), showing that suffering was central to the Pauline mission.

           Paul begins the letter [2 Corinthians] by explaining his apostolic sufferings.  God brings afflictions into his life and strengthens him in these afflictions, so that he, as an apostle, can in turn strengthen others suffering pain (2 Cor 1:3-7).  Paul explains that God "comforts us in affliction" so that he can "comfort those in every affliction through the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God" (2 Cor 1:4).  Paul's afflictions are for their "comfort and salvation" (2 Cor 1:6).

           The advance of Paul's mission, that is, the progress of the gospel, occurred through his suffering.  This explains why Paul could rejoice in weakness (2 Cor 12:7-10), for he understood that weakness was the means by which the powerful word of the cross took effect in people's lives (1 Cor 2:3-5).

          Paul's sufferings are a corollary to the sufferings of Christ inasmuch as they are the means by which the message [gospel] is brought to the Gentiles.  Thereby the focus remains on God and Christ, and glory does not redound to the proclaimer but to the proclaimed.

Source:  http://www.amazon.com/Paul-Apostle-Gods-Glory-Christ/dp/0830828257 

 

Faith, hope and love,

 

Colby

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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on August 5, 2012 at 1:32pm

Is the Soul and Spirit one and the same, with different responsibilities or are the soul and spirit individual components with distinctive attributes?

I am more incline to believe that the words are interchangeable, consequently being one multifaceted component. Let me give it a stab here and try to explain.

Each of us consists of a material body driven by an immaterial personal self. The real David, the essence of myself is not the flesh, which Paul calls a tent, a temple etc. The real me is the spirit/soul. Scripture calls this self a "soul" or "spirit."

1 Thessalonians 5:23
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 4:12 (New King James Version)
12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

In the past I have use these verses to support that we are a trichotomy, but I am not sure that to be the case. I see the power of God's word to enter the deepest recesses of a person's being, and not a sort of division into constituent parts. Do you see what I am trying to say? The word is able to make a distinction of the different attributes of one component per say and not emphasizing the separateness of the two.

I am very aware the verses above would make one think that body, soul and spirit are separate components but bear with me. I believe the spirit and soul are used as synonyms in the bible. I know that when the terms are placed together as in the verses above, it is difficult to find any significant difference in meaning. I mean compare the fourfold representation of the heart, soul, mind, and strength found in Mark 12:30.

Soul emphasizes the distinctness of a person’s conscious selfhood; spirit carries the distinctions of self’s derivation/source from God and dependence on Him, within one component needing multiple descriptions. Not sure that makes sense to you, but I don’t know how else to describe it.

Now, we are both Soul and Spirit, but that does not imply that they are two different things. The common idea that the soul is a component of the worldly awareness (through the senses) only, while the spirit is a distinct organ of communion with God, brought to life in regeneration, is not something I see clearly establish in scripture.

Here is why I believe soul and spirit to be one:

If I believe that soul and spirit are separate then that view leads one to anti-intellectualism whereby spiritual insight and theological reflection are separated to the crippling of both (I am certainly not the first one to come up with this) – theology being regarded as “soulfish work” and unspiritual, while spiritual perception is viewed as unrelated to the work of teaching and learning God’s revealed truth.

I am inclined to think of soul and spirit as one component, which deals with different functions of the "Self, “I do not see them as separate entities, I see no distinction of such sort. I do see how the soul/spirit is multifaceted and perfectly intertwine. But I would not debate this fiercely.

 

The flesh on the other hand is unregenerate, we still long for its glorification.

 

As far as demons possessing a born again child of God goes, for the record, in case my biblical stance was not cleared in previous posts, it is almost impossible. Those in the body, who experience such things, experience them due to a level of disobedience and disregard for the grace of God that is extreme, basically they are dealing with the demonic through witchcraft, drug use and other detestable things.  Even among those in extreme disobedience the number of the ones that experience demons temporarily penetrating their bodies is in my estimation extremely low, but I have no formal statistics to any of these things. I actually would not call what happens to a born again child of God possession, for it's not the same as with unbelievers, our Lord through the whole experience remains God. It is neither a common occurrence nor something that born again Christian should be mindful of. Demons want nothing more than to discredit the work of God in our lives, but the most they can do, is make us ineffective for a time, when we do not abide in Christ/scripture. How long will God allow us to remain ineffective or experiencing things in the supernatural realm that we shouldn't experience, is a matter of how long it takes us to go to him with a contrite heart.

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Permalink Reply by Colby on August 5, 2012 at 3:35pm

David,

 

Your response is detailed and illuminating; a product of careful and sustained study.  You have raised many points that are well worth considering as we come to understand what it means to be a person.  

 

The Bible says we are "created in God's image" and that the believer is a "temple of the Holy Spirit."   What does this tell us about God and about ourselves?

 

Clearly, our beings have both a material or physical component and an immaterial/non-physical or spiritual component. 

 

Two verses from Scripture suggest three components or aspects (1Thes5:23; Heb4:12).  They distinguish between our 1) body (material/physical), 2) soul, and 3) spirit.   Are the soul and spirit separate and distinguishable, or essentially interchangeable?

  

I think it is fine to distinguish between the soul and spirit, as some will do based on the two verses of Scripture, which I shared that make such a distinction, and just as well to see them as essentially interchangeable.  There is a good deal of logic in your observation that "the soul/spirit is multifaceted and perfectly intertwined."  In other words, they may be different aspects of our being; yet, at the same time, inseparable.

 

Moreover, as LT stated, the Bible is not clear on this point, suggesting it is not critically important.  If it were, the Bible would speak more clearly about this matter.   What the Bible instructs is that we are more than our physical bodies, and that we have a spiritual component.  My own hunch is that when the Bible speaks of body, soul, and spirit separately, or of these three things along with the mind and the heart, the intent in the verses we have referenced is one of emphasis; not of calling out individual parts, but rather to emphasize the whole of our being.  As always, though, context needs to be our guide.  For example, as in (Matthew 22:37):"You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. "

My conclusion thus far is the holistic view that each of us is a whole person.  Although we have distinct aspects, both physical and non-physical, we are not to be divided up and compartmentalized.  Spirit and soul may be separate aspects of non-material being, but the greater point is that they are inseparable.  We function as a whole, a body-spirit-soul or body-spirit/soul entity, with each aspect being interconnected and indispensable in contributing to who we are.  Though, as for our bodies, we await the glorified bodies that will be provided to us when we are bodily resurrected.

The perspectives that you and others have brought to this discussion have been helpful. 

 

Let Christ's grace, mercy and peace be with us in truth and love,

 

Colby

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Permalink Reply by JB on August 5, 2012 at 5:40pm

David, I like the reference you made to LT’s explanation of the Spirit, soul and body in a previous discussion; as the spirit is buffeted by the soul, from the body. What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the spirit is spirit. Jo.3:6.
Ro.8:7 says the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So wouldn’t it stand to reason that if our Spirit is born of God: and you say that the spirit and soul can be the same, and the soul is the mind, will and emotions, and conscience; how then can it; “the mind, even if it is not carnal”, be at variance with the born again Spirit?
Another thing that seems to confuse us concerning this, is the use of the word “flesh” now this can be used in two ways, one as the “mind” the other as the “flesh”. In other words, to walk after the flesh, means to walk according to the way the carnal mind thinks. The flesh has no control of anything, it cannot think, for itself, it is totally under the control of the mind and or spirit, and they tell the flesh what to do or how to act.
So to walk after the flesh is saying that we are walking according to what we perceive sensually, what we can see, feel, taste, smell and hear
If when we are born again: we are a new creation at that very moment we believed, and sealed. Old things passes away, behold all things become new, and all things are of God. Wouldn’t your mind “which is part of the soul” have been renewed at that time as well, if the soul and spirit were the same?
We can feel our bodies and our souls, but our spirits can’t be accessed in any natural way (Jo.3:6) There is no direct connection between spirit and flesh. Therefore we can’t contact our spirits through our emotions or our physical bodies. This is one of the biggest problems the Christian has. If we don’t understand the spirit, soul and body, we become frustrated over the “apparent” disparity between our experiences and God’s Word. However understanding the interaction between the three parts of our being, will help us understand the spiritual realm, so we can better see who we are and what we are in Christ.
God’s Word; “according to scripture” is a spiritual mirror, Ja.1:23-25; and it is the only accurate way we can perceive the spirit realm. Jo.6:63, God’s Word is Spirit and life. It reveals spiritual realities. So if we want to know what our spirits are like, we must find out through the Word. We just can’t go by emotions or some other type of perception. We must look in the Word in order to see ourselves in the spirit. It reflects who we are in the spirit. And it’s the only way we can know. So we need to trust the spiritual reality we see in the Word.
To sort of sum this up. The way I see this is, when we are born again, we are not just wiped off, hosed down, and dried off like changing a baby’s diaper. According to the Word, we are a “New Creation”. Jesus Christ represented, “the” or “A” New Creation. God coming to earth in a physical body.
“To me;” Jesus Was the Son of man, but Christ was the Son of God. (Jesus Christ) Though they can’t be separated, just as you and your mother’s maiden name; you are as much of your mother as you are of your father, but you have taken on the name of the father. “PLEASE DON’T ASK FOR SCRIPTURE REFERANCE” Remember I said “to me?” haha, Now if I am a new creation, old things passed away and all things became new. If there were anything in my spirit before I became a new creation, when Christ came in: that old things left with the old spirit. So I am not nor can I be demon possessed, “Possession” would mean ownership, I have been redeemed from the “former owner” of my soul and spirit. Now the devil attacks our physical bodies, our minds, our wills and emotions, but cannot attack our spirits, because they are of God. The deliverance ministries as some are called: should be considered “intercessory ministries” not between God and man, but between the man and the adversary. And this is to do as Isa. Says we are to do, to loose the bands of wickedness, undo the heavy burdens, let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke,…, now can a Christian be oppressed? Can he have a heavy burden? Etc. if so then where are these in a Christians body? I would say in his soul and physical body, but not in his spirit. We can be sick in body, oppressed in mind, So how can we think we are only made up of 2 parts? Again “to me” the heart would be a make-up of all three parts, or the entire being. We serve Him with everything in us.
Joe

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Permalink Reply by Mitchell Sikich on August 6, 2012 at 10:22pm

 Hi Colby, JB and others,

Have we not been given the very mind of Christ? (1 Cor 2:16) within the greater context of 1 Cor 2:1-16.

Mitch

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Permalink Reply by Rita Cullimore on August 7, 2012 at 4:10am

Mitch,

We have the Spirit of Christ. Context of the verse you cited. We have the mind of Christ, but most of us are still growing and our *mind of Christ* isn't fully matured yet. We desire for it to be, but....we need to study and work at it until such a time that it comes second nature to us. We have it but at the moment it is underdeveloped. The Holy Spirit will continue to help us develop it, as He renews us.

Blessings.....

Rita

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