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When I am witnessing to a Mormon, how do I convince them that God is not flesh?
I find it interesting what they believe. I know what I believe, and I believe God is spirit. The trinity. But how do I convince that to a mormon when they go directly to certain scriptures in the bible and show me that is says He is flesh. example:How did God have a SON? example:We are made in HIS image. Also they point out that God "knew us" before we came to earth, so we must have all been spirit babies with a heavenly mother." Anyway, help me to help them.
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Permalink Reply by Dawn Gordon on
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Judges 6
11 The angel of the LORD came and sat down under the oak in Ophrah that belonged to Joash the Abiezrite, where his son Gideon was threshing wheat in a winepress to keep it from the Midianites. 12 When the angel of the LORD appeared to Gideon, he said, "The LORD is with you, mighty warrior." 13 "But sir," Gideon replied, "if the LORD is with us, why has all this happened to us? Where are all his wonders that our fathers told us about when they said, 'Did not the LORD bring us up out of Egypt?' But now the LORD has abandoned us and put us into the hand of Midian."
14 The LORD turned to him and said, "Go in the strength you have and save Israel out of Midian's hand. Am I not sending you?"
15 "But Lord , " Gideon asked, "how can I save Israel? My clan is the weakest in Manasseh, and I am the least in my family."
16 The LORD answered, "I will be with you, and you will strike down all the Midianites together."
Judges 6:22 (New International Version)
22 When Gideon realized that it was the angel of the LORD, he exclaimed, "Ah, Sovereign LORD! I have seen the angel of the LORD face to face!"
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now no Angel is responded to as AH SOVERIGN LORD, or the LORD
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so as we can see in exodus the Angel of the Lord is GOD, then in another verse it calls him a MAN? now David wrote in psalms that he will cover you with his pinions, pinions are WINGS,
I also did a full teaching on Joel 2 and revelation 9 which I will post
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i have not added it my site yet, if you read Joel 2, it is called locust army, notice who is the head of that army? it says THE LORD THUNDERED AT THE HEAD right? well in revelation 9, he is called Abadon, sorry for mispelling, which means destroyer, he told Moses he was the destroyer himself...I did a teaching on it, but looks like I never saved it on the site, have to redo it now BOOHOO
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Permalink Reply by Carla on
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Hello Mai,
The Trinity does indeed exist.. There is an incredible amount of scripture to support the Trinity. For now, I have just one question for you. Please explain who the 'us' and the 'our' is in Genesis 1:26.
The Trinity is the One True God.
Thank you. Carla
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Dear Mai,
I believe the following article explains this as much as our finite minds can understand...
Question: "What does the Bible teach about the Trinity?"
Answer: The most difficult thing about the Christian concept of the Trinity is that there is no way to adequately explain it. The Trinity is a concept that is impossible for any human being to fully understand, let alone explain. God is infinitely greater than we are; therefore, we should not expect to be able to fully understand Him. The Bible teaches that the Father is God, that Jesus is God, and that the Holy Spirit is God. The Bible also teaches that there is only one God. Though we can understand some facts about the relationship of the different Persons of the Trinity to one another, ultimately, it is incomprehensible to the human mind. However, this does not mean the Trinity is not true or that it is not based on the teachings of the Bible.
The Trinity is one God existing in three Persons. Understand that this is not in any way suggesting three Gods. Keep in mind when studying this subject that the word “Trinity” is not found in Scripture. This is a term that is used to attempt to describe the triune God—three coexistent, co-eternal Persons who make up God. Of real importance is that the concept represented by the word “Trinity” does exist in Scripture. The following is what God’s Word says about the Trinity:
1) There is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:5).
2) The Trinity consists of three Persons (Genesis 1:1, 26; 3:22; 11:7; Isaiah 6:8, 48:16, 61:1; Matthew 3:16-17, 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14). In Genesis 1:1, the Hebrew plural noun Elohim is used. In Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7 and Isaiah 6:8, the plural pronoun for “us” is used. The word Elohim and the pronoun “us” are plural forms, definitely referring in the Hebrew language to more than two. While this is not an explicit argument for the Trinity, it does denote the aspect of plurality in God. The Hebrew word for God, Elohim, definitely allows for the Trinity.
In Isaiah 48:16 and 61:1, the Son is speaking while making reference to the Father and the Holy Spirit. Compare Isaiah 61:1 to Luke 4:14-19 to see that it is the Son speaking. Matthew 3:16-17 describes the event of Jesus' baptism. Seen in this passage is God the Holy Spirit descending on God the Son while God the Father proclaims His pleasure in the Son. Matthew 28:19 and 2 Corinthians 13:14 are examples of three distinct persons in the Trinity.
3) The members of the Trinity are distinguished one from another in various passages. In the Old Testament, “LORD” is distinguished from “Lord” (Genesis 19:24; Hosea 1:4). The LORD has a Son (Psalm 2:7, 12; Proverbs 30:2-4). The Spirit is distinguished from the “LORD” (Numbers 27:18) and from “God” (Psalm 51:10-12). God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Psalm 45:6-7; Hebrews 1:8-9). In the New Testament, Jesus speaks to the Father about sending a Helper, the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17). This shows that Jesus did not consider Himself to be the Father or the Holy Spirit. Consider also all the other times in the Gospels where Jesus speaks to the Father. Was He speaking to Himself? No. He spoke to another person in the Trinity—the Father.
4) Each member of the Trinity is God. The Father is God (John 6:27; Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2). The Son is God (John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20). The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:16).
5) There is subordination within the Trinity. Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate to the Father. This is an internal relationship and does not deny the deity of any person of the Trinity. This is simply an area which our finite minds cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see Luke 22:42, John 5:36, John 20:21, and 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit see John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7, and especially John 16:13-14.
6) The individual members of the Trinity have different tasks. The Father is the ultimate source or cause of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; Revelation 4:11); divine revelation (Revelation 1:1); salvation (John 3:16-17); and Jesus' human works (John 5:17, 14:10). The Father initiates all of these things.
The Son is the agent through whom the Father does the following works: the creation and maintenance of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17); divine revelation (John 1:1, 16:12-15; Matthew 11:27; Revelation 1:1); and salvation (2 Corinthians 5:19; Matthew 1:21; John 4:42). The Father does all these things through the Son, who functions as His agent.
The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works: creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm 104:30); divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21); salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and Jesus' works (Isaiah 61:1; Acts 10:38). Thus the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy Spirit.
There have been many attempts to develop illustrations of the Trinity. However, none of the popular illustrations are completely accurate. The egg (or apple) fails in that the shell, white, and yolk are parts of the egg, not the egg in themselves, just as the skin, flesh, and seeds of the apple are parts of it, not the apple itself. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not parts of God; each of them is God. The water illustration is somewhat better, but it still fails to adequately describe the Trinity. Liquid, vapor, and ice are forms of water. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not forms of God, each of them is God. So, while these illustrations may give us a picture of the Trinity, the picture is not entirely accurate. An infinite God cannot be fully described by a finite illustration.
The doctrine of the Trinity has been a divisive issue throughout the entire history of the Christian church. While the core aspects of the Trinity are clearly presented in God’s Word, some of the side issues are not as explicitly clear. The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God—but there is only one God. That is the biblical doctrine of the Trinity. Beyond that, the issues are, to a certain extent, debatable and non-essential. Rather than attempting to fully define the Trinity with our finite human minds, we would be better served by focusing on the fact of God's greatness and His infinitely higher nature. “Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out! Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor?” (Romans 11:33-34).
Here is also a video:
I hope this helps to eliminate confusion. Blessings, Carla
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Permalink Reply by jamie allen lindsey on
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I ONCE PRAYED WITH TWO YOUNG MORMON MISSIONARY BOYS WHOSE MINDS WERE BLOWN THAT A PERSON COULD ACTUALLY KNOW JESUS FOR THEMSELVES, MANY HAVE TOLD ME THAT THEY AND ME BELIEVE THE SAME THING:THAT JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD AND THROUGH HIM WE ARE SAVED. I ALWAYS SAY "PRAISE GOD ...BUT THEN THEY WANT TO TALK ABOUT JOSEPH SMITH EVERY TIME! WHAT HAS HE GOT TO DO WITH SALVATION AFTER WE HAVE JUST AGREED ON WHAT SALVATION IS? I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN CURIOUS WHY THE BOOK OF MORMON IS WRITTEN IN ELIZABETHAN ENGLISH WHEN JOSEPH SMITH WAS GIVEN THE GOLD TABLETS BY AN ANGEL ,WHICH THE MORMON BIBLE WAS WRITTEN ON, IN THE EARLY 1800S? DOES GOD SPEAK ELIZABETHAN ENGLISH? NOT TRYING TO BE A SMARTY,REALLY JUST WANT TO KNOW WHY? JAMIE
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I was under the impression that jesus was the only begotten son of god and that he sent jesus to teach the people about god.
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Permalink Reply by faith on
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When God created us in His image, it means we were created with a spirit. That's God's image and that's what the Bible means when it says that we were created in His image.
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That is not a reply. If I were I mormon I would realize you must be afraid of, or not able to define what you believe or why. By being rude you are evading the question and not accomplishing a thing.
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Permalink Reply by ScribeD on
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Christopher, I'm just going to step in for a second and say that your stance is one that can be used against you. I have dealt with many atheists who use the same attitude and the same philosophy against Christians.
You are better served by patiently showing the flaws of Mormonism in a kind and gracious way, by showing how frequently their book conflicts with the Bible - and with itself.
I've known a lot of Mormons and have witnessed to them. They don't respond to arrogance. They are usually very well trained in how to be gracious to Christians and you will gain nothing by having an attitude that says "I'm right and you're wrong". You have to show them where they are in conflict with truth, from their own book and from the Bible.
And you must do it in a gracious way, or do it not at all.
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Do you think Jesus would stick his chest out and say to a Mormon they should "grow up and that Santa Claus isn't real?" And then say sorry but I'm hard on ignorance! don't think so. It's not our job to be "Hard on Ignorance." According God loving the world enough to send Jesus for us who are ignorant in many ways, I seem to remember Him saying we are to Love one another not correct them because of our ignorance of their ignorance. And no "tough love" isn't another excuse for personal attack and judgment. The Love thing is tough. Not many Christians can do it. We certainly receive God's love but we're not very generous in giving it are we.
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