Hi Group,

What an interesting discussion.

Let's take a closer look at the word hate......Greek- miseo.....basically - to hate.

In Vine's Complete Expository Dictionary the breakdown includes section c = "of relative preference of one thing over another, by way of expressing either aversion from, or disregard for, the claims of one person or thing relatively to those of another........"

That would explain Matthew 6:24, " No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon."

And also explaining Luke 14:26, " If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple." 

Section "c' has to apply here in that we don't have to literally hate family, friends, ourselves, and things on earth, that we won't have any thing to do with them. It means we should love Jesus MORE. ie: My wife and I have always had this understanding: we love each other, been married for 47 years.......but we both believe Jesus is first to each of us before the other.

The Scriptures say that "God hated Esau, but loved Jacob." The Word is saying that God loved Esau LESS than Jacob.

 Also, my personal interpretation of hate can sometimes just get down to completely ignoring someone or something. What is the worst SLAM you can do to somebody?............completely ignore 'em.

I do agree that the statement of God loving the sinner and hating the sin is very mis-leading.

Grace and Peace.

Hi  All,

I'm not sure how we would want to say, then, that God hates sin but loves the sinner. Richard, I am not thinking that you are saying that God loves sin less that righteousness. Your interpretation as applying to the Luke 14 passage is very good. However, the word hate as specifically referencing certain sins as Carla has specifically made references to in a previous post is certainly within our understood vocabulary of that word. 

It is my understanding that God came to Moses and spoke to him face to face as a neighbor speaks to a neighbor. That is what is reported to us in Numbers. With that in mind, Moses would have gotten a feel for God more than any. He reports to us in Lev 18 certain sexual behaviors we are not to enter into. We receive the instructions that we are not have sexual relations with close relatives, our neighbor's wife, etc. Then Moses speaks of homosexuality and bestiality. The tone seems to change. These are described as detestable and perverted. These are detestable sins. Now, who cares about this? It should not necessarily be our campaign against these sins or any of the sexual sins as described. It is simply ours to report that God's attitude towards these sins is one of disdain that will bring judgment upon a land. He speaks of judgment in that very context.

Now comes the modern day scholar that would say that applies only to the Holy Land and days gone by and not to us today. Yet, that particular sin is once again in the New Testament pointed out as being unnatural and perverted. It remains detestable. There are many other sexual sins. When a man lies with his neighbor's wife, he is committing sin. When a brother has sex with his sister such as Amnon, that is sin but is not perverted. Tabitha was a beautiful girl and Amnon was strongly physically attracted to her. That is natural even though very sinful.

I believe that God hates sexual misbehavior because of the terrible consequences of those sins. For instance: if a man lies with his daughter, think of the damage he is causing his daughter and to himself. He will never be able to live with that and the daughter would struggle with it for many years to come until God gives that healing. None of these sins, however, are sins unto death. All of these sins can be forgiven and the perpetrator can be made whole. I believe that with all my heart. I do believe God does love all these vile sinners that will come to Him in repentance and asking for His help. I do not believe that God winks at any of these sins but hates them. Yet, He will cleanse the sinner and make him whole.

We must maintain that salvation is by grace and by grace alone. Does the man who struggles with pornography and other sins lose his salvation every time he falls to that sin? Or, does God's grace maintain the man's salvation during the time he struggles against his deviant behavior? I believe the latter is true. Jesus pointed out to us that even looking at a woman to lust after her is sexual sin. I think it is clear to us how desperately we need a Savior. I think it is also clear that God does love the sinner so much that He died for his sins. The blood of Jesus cleanses us from all our sin. Do we ever in ourselves overcome all our sin? I don't think so. We need a Savior from start to finish. We all need to keep our eyes focused on Him, the Author and Finisher of our faith.

I believe it is extremely wrong for the church to take the stance of equality in marriage. Marriage, according to Scripture, is between a man and his wife. The two will become one. That is God's Word. We do not have the authority to change that. However, at the same time, we must take the stance that God can forgive all sin. He will forgive all sin. The reason: He loves the sinner. We should all be very grateful for His great love. It covers every single one of the sins that I have mentioned here and multitudes more.

Jesus has saved me from all my sin and for that I am eternally grateful. As a result of that, I am better able to cope with the sins of the flesh even though I still fail. God still hates those sins as they cause so much damage to the perpetrator and the one sinned against. He is our Father and wants us to be free from all these things. He even will  discipline us to teach us not to do these things. However, He will never take away our salvation. His love for us is eternal and will never fail. I love Him more than life.

Greetings all,

This is an important subject and it has been addressed quite thoroughly IMO regarding the sexual act between same-sexes is a sin according to the Word of God (on this we will not debate). I think it is time to move on with the understanding that this subject will come up again ... and again ... There are many other subjects that we could be discussing that will profit seekers and believers in Jesus.

Lord Bless,

LT