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Alright Brothers and Sisters,

You've had respite from the debate on this matter long enough. As they used to say in Rome, " Let the games begin." (Again).

 

If you want to start posting your favorite verses supporting your position again, go ahead. Were you ever able to sway the other camp with your Biblical points? Are there verses that each person thinks will convince the other of the final answers? Do Bible references of each camp seem to set the story straight? Is the issue still at a stand-off?

Let me offer a different approach:

I think that both beliefs (Calvinism - Arminism)  ARE CORRECT.

Now, before you move your mouse, please hear me out.

I think the Holy Spirit pointed this Biblical explanation to me, because I'm sure not smart enough to have noticed it myself.

 

To start with, we see Jesus preaching to the dead in 1 Peter 4:6.

Compare Acts 26:23 with Peter's verse. And bring in Matthew 27:52. So, we see godly souls who have been "waiting" for Jesus to come free them from their "way station".

 

Please go to Luke 16:19-31.

This is the only story that Jesus told that characters were identified with names - Lazarus, Abraham. Also, according to "The Companion Bible" quoting from John Lightfoot"s writings, this was not one of Jesus' parables, because He was lashing out at the Pharisees for their intentional changing of the Law.

It seems this Abraham"s Bosom (Paradise) and Hades had a great chasm separating the good souls and the wicked souls.

And, at that time, Paradise and Hades were both in the bowels of the earth (compare Samuel "coming up" in 1 Samuel 28:13-15).

 

Obviously, all godly people who died before Jesus' redemptive work at Calvary had to be CHOSEN by God, because He knew their hearts. Compare Luke 16:22.

Jesus preached to those saintly souls in the time between Cruxifiction Friday and Resurrection Sunday because God knew their hearts, and they were destined to eternity with Jesus.

 

Jesus moved Paradise (Abraham's Bosom) from "down" to "up" in Ephesians 4:8-10, where I believe it is now. Compare 2 Corinthians 12:4.

 

I'm going to stop for now because of time and space. To be continued..........................

What do you think so far?

 

Grace and peace. 

 

 

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Replies to This Discussion

Hi group,

Amanda, I agree with you that a true believer never will fall away from God.

And along the opposite line..........there are people who never really and truly believe. Some are just plain hypocrtites, while others give up because of being disappointed, and some just don't have a clue.

 

In Matthew chapter 7: 21,  Jesus says, "Not everyone who says to Me, "Lord, Lord, will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven."

 

What about this thought: One for the money........two for the show........three to get ready.......and four to go!

Here's the breakdown - (1) Ephesians 2:8, " For by grace we are saved, through faith, and not that of yourselves, it

is the gift of God. (2)We respond with a limited measure of faith from the Holy Spirit. (3) Sanctification. separating ourselves from the world, becoming holy as God is holy. (4) to go......to heaven (redemption).

Just another way of trying to blend beliefs together.

 

Grace and Peace.

        

There are people who never truly believe in the work that Christ did for us and that His work for our redemption is sufficient and they keep wanting to add their own works to redemption. It's one area of belief that just can't be blended or watered down or distorted in any way. Number (1) in your analysis covers salvation. That's my POV. I wait for glorification of my resurrected body and my soul is being sanctified here and now in a process that will be completed when I die and see Jesus face to face or when He comes back for me, whichever happens first, but I'm already born again and saved.
What Jesus did redeemed us -- His blood was spilled. There's nothing I can do to add to this redemption. I'm sorry. I disagree with you. What I said regarding true believers applies to being born again. The new birth does not happen over the course of a lifetime. It may take a lot of years for someone to rest and believe in the work of Christ and experience the change that is a new heart and a new spirit but it happens in a moment when it actually happens and it only happens to those who truly believe.

 

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