I'd like some clarification on a point you made around 39:20 please.
Does the sanctification process only get underway at the crisis point?
In other words, are there Christians out there who have been justified, and yet there is no sanctification going on (not even a little bit)?
This is a good question. The term sanctification basically means "to be set apart." With this understanding we recognize that there are several ways this term can be and is used in Scripture. I will admit that the term can be confusing and thus we need to explain how we are applying it. We recognize that we are "set apart" unto Christ at new birth marked and indwelt by the Holy Spirit. By the very nature of the term this means we are sanctified, or have experienced a form of sanctification. This deals with the understanding that we are positionally sanctified because we are united with the Living God through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Every born again child of God experiences positional Sanctification. Then there is experiential sanctification, the life that goes through the crisis experience coming to a point of surrender and then is filled with the Holy Spirit.
Thus, in the context of the discussion it is being used in the experiential sense where the child of God is filled with the Holy Spirit and "empowered to live a life set apart" for Christ. One is postionally sanctified and attempts to live in their own strength while the other goes through the crisis of recognizing the futility of that life, though saved, weak and lacking power to truly stay the course. In the end God will finish the work He has begun. All will experience both positional and experiential sanctification. This is a topic I hope we will pick up in the group some time ... the difference between postional and experiential (by this comment I am not implying that we should not talk about it here and want to push it off to the Hangouts ... we can do both , and should).
Hope that helps. Feel free to inquire further.
This makes sense, thanks for this.
hehehe. Looks like LT is all Pentecostal here, raising his hand, speaking about the Holy Spirit in the title. I mean, not saying you don't do all that anyways, but it looks likes it's shouting time or something here.
Around 53:20 you were talking about some signs that may follow a person being filled with the Holy Spirit, and the fact that the Holy Spirit will work through their words or lifestyle.
My question is, can/does the Holy Spirit work through the words or lifestyle of someone who is indwelt only, but not filled?
PS- let me know if you'd rather not have discussion take place on this page and would rather I start up specific forum discussions for these questions.
Here is fine and it is helpful that you put the time reference for the video.
Yes, God works through people at His choosing according to His will. From the Old Testament we see various times that God interacted with people such as the king where Abraham told him that Sarah was his sister. God spoke to him in a dream. We know that God sent the angel to Cornelius in Acts 10. God is free to act through us even overriding our will if He so chooses. Our liberty has limits compared to what some view as freewill meaning that God cannot or will not ever override our will ... i disagree and believe we have liberties granted us by a sovereign God.
Thus, God can work through the individual to accomplish a task He has designated, but that is different from a willful surrender seeking God to empower "us" to live for Him day to day relaying on the power of the Holy Spirit as He fills us day after day.
So it sounds like there are two options,
a) God overriding a person's will to accomplish His will
b) a person willfully surrendering to the Holy Spirit day by day (being filled day by day)
I can think back on two times in particular where I believe the Holy Spirit has worked through me (crazy, I know). Both were cases of sharing the gospel with unbelievers. I have shared the gospel other times, but these two times were very different. I felt the Holy Spirit giving me boldness, joy, faith, peace, love etc that I have never been able to muster up myself.
And yet I don't think I'm "filled" with the Holy Spirit yet because these times are very few and far between.
So, is it possible for a third option:
c) a person willfully surrendering to God's Spirit at long intervals, or in other words, one who is indwelt but not filled, yet at times surrendering to the Holy Spirit willfully (the Holy Spirit working through them, and they surrender to this).
Yes, that is reasonable. We recognize that all children of God have the Holy Spirit living in them, thus they are not void of the presence of God's Spirit. We also recognize that even though we see Scripture teach He marks us, seals us, and that He is a deposit all children of God have the whole Holy Spirit and not just a portion. By the very fact that at salvation we are transformed and enter into new life we will begin to demonstrate the change that has taken place because we have a new nature that is being renewed by the Holy Spirit, yet without the filling of the Holy Spirit we will live weak Christian lives. There is nothing preventing the Holy Spirit from moving in a life at His on choosing and we also know that even those who have not experienced the filling of the Holy Spirit still have a desire (at least most) to please Father God, yet on a day to day basis lack the empowerment from in High through the Holy Spirit, and through that desire God can and will do certain things. One example is the one you pointed out ... witnessing. In that example there are two involved, the one sharing and the one hearing. We know that both align with God's Word as He wishes none to perish, but for all to come to repentance.
Great, thanks for this.
I can't imagine how it must be to live with the filling of the Spirit on a daily basis.
Seems too high to believe it could be a reality for any Christian.
One thing to note is that it is not a life without struggle. Often we find that the warfare intensifies and the path is harder, yet we are empowered to fight the fight and in the end win the battle along the way, but not without struggle. I think one of the greatest difference is that the struggle with self begins to minimize and the external struggle of life (physical and spiritual) begins to intensify ... yet we are empowered to stand, but it is war ... not an easy path.
Getting to Know the Holy Spirit
The Holy Spirit is real but because of many misconceptions and much ignorance many Christians are robbed of a wonderful relationship with him. Thus they end up spending their Christian lives without the fullness of God, for He is God’s fullness. Satan has managed to blind many Christians about the truth of the Holy Sprit in operation. He has also sought to make the teachings on the Holy Spirit seem like false doctrine. The only solution to remove the obscurity and the distortion is to sit down with the Word of God and read it for yourself with an open mind. Do not put man‘s teachings above God’s Word. Let the Word speak to you about the Holy Spirit.
This means to impart life, to revive or bring back to life. It is through the work of the Holy Spirit that a sinner is drawn to the Lord Jesus Christ and convicted of his sin to a point of repentance Titus 3:5; Rom 12:2; John 3:5-6
The new birth (being born-again) is only made possible through the power of the Holy Spirit.
2 Cor 5:17-18
It is Jesus who makes us new creatures and sets us free from the powers of sin-BUT it is The Holy Spirit who regenerates us, who convicts us of our sin, and brings us to Jesus. 2 Cor 3:6
He gives strength to the weak. Without the strength of the Holy Spirit in our inner being, it is not possible for us to make it in our spiritual walk. Every true believer should entirely depend on the power of the Spirit. Eph 3:16.
The Holy Spirit confirms to our spirit that we are God’s children. He is the one who introduces us to this wonderful relationship, which we can possess through the finished work of Jesus Christ. When we do wrong, the Holy Spirit will convict us and point us back to the truth. Rom 8:15-17
Praying in the Holy Sprit helps us to become bold. It increases our faith and spiritual strength. Jude 1:20; Eph 6:18; Rom 8:26-27
The things of God are spiritually discerned, and only through the power of the Holy Spirit can we understand them. This is why people with carnal (natural) minds do not understand the things of the Spirit. They think it is foolishness and senseless, but those who are filled with the Spirit of God know it is God’s power Matt 11:25; 1 Cor 1:25-28; 1 Cor 2:10-14
When Jesus was baptized, the Holy Spirit descended and rested on him. This was to confirm Him as God’s Son, to assure Him full support in His mission, to give Him power in what He was about to do, and to be a sign to those present. In the same manner when we make a stand for God in our personal lives, He, in turn, allows His Holy Spirit to come and lead us, to help us in times of trials and temptations. John 1:32-34; Luke 4:1,2
Jesus was anointed by the power of the Holy Spirit, which is how He performed great signs and wonders. We cannot perform signs and wonders or function in the ministry under the power of God until we have received the anointing of the Holy Spirit. The anointing is not a one-time experience, but a continuous experience. We should ask God’s anointing before we embark on any spiritual activity. Luke 4:16,18,21;Acts 10:38
Jesus cast out devils by the power of the Holy Spirit. We cannot stand against Satan by our own power or man’s wisdom, but by the power of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is God’s power for believers against the enemy. Matt 12:28
Jesus offered himself to God, the Father, through the Spirit of God. We believers need to die to self before we can be a powerful witness for God. God’s spirit will help us during this process of death. Heb 9:14
After death Jesus was resurrected by the power of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the giver of life. When we die to self, God’s spirit imparts to us a new life-life in the Spirit, and this is the only life that pleases the Father. Rom 8:11; 1 Pet 3:18.