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why does God allow our change to be so slow?
Hi,
I'm wondering why God allows sanctification to be such a slow, incremental process for so many of us? Or put another way, Why does God allow His children to go many years stumbling and sinning?
I know He could make our sanctification rapid as He seems to do to people rarely, because sanctification is His work, done by the faith that He provides.
But for most of us, I think, our sanctification is an almost painfully slow process, and in the meantime, our sins don't glorify Him. So why does He allow it to move along slowly? I know He knows exactly what He's doing and has a reason for everything, but I can't think of what it would be in this case.
I can't think of any place in the bible where this question is dealt with. If there is, can you please point me to it?
What are your thoughts?
Thanks in advance,
Jenny
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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If we change the focus of the question a bit to get some clarity regarding the actual question it might help. We could ask why God allowed sin into the world to begin with. God knew before creation was created that Satan would fall and he would be instrumental in leading Eve and Adam to fall, but God created anyway. Jesus, the Lamb of God, was slain before the foundation of the earth was laid. This does not mean He had already shed His blood, but that His shedding of His blood was already a reality to happen at the appropriate time in the timeline that God would establish. So, why did God create all of this knowing all that He knew? The answer is a mystery and beyond our knowing. We can speculate and give some ideas based on what we know about the nature of God. We know He is love, holy and righteous. We know that He is self-existent and eternal. One speculation is that God wanted a family, a group of people to shed His love on. We know we were created for His good pleasure. He chooses to refer to Himself in family terms (i.e. Father) and the church as the bride while Jesus is the Bridegroom.
Back to your question (again a mystery that can only be speculated on IMO). If God did not allow sin there would be no need for sanctification, but He did allow sin to take place with full knowledge in advance. If God wants a family that loves Him for Who He is, then God will also allow us to grow in the love and knowledge. If He is operating as our Father then it makes sense that as a Father He will allow us to grow rather than force our growth. In this we can consider the lifecycle using human terms and illustrations, though I am sure they fall short of the truth. As a child, and we are referred to as being born from on high (or born again), we begin as newborn children and grow to become toddlers ... child ... preteen ... teen ...adult. Each phase has its own unique aspects of maturity and points of focus to sustain life and to grow. To keep this short I will give a poor illustration. When a parent sends their child to school they do not go in the place of the child, but must let the child learn at their on pace starting in kindergarten and advancing one year at a time. The new born is not infused with all knowledge, but learns and develops over time. The same appears to be true of the newborn child of God.
Again, your question is a good one, but one that I do not believe can be answered with a statement of fact, but rather we must acknowledge it is a mystery that we can at best speculate (based on what we do know and not just wildly).
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Permalink Reply by Jenny on
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thanks LT,
this is helpful also because a toddler can't force itself to become a preteen. or can it, by faith?
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It is not something that can be forced. It is a path we are called to follow and as we walk in His path He works in us according to His purpose and will for our lives. The one part of sanctification that we must always remember is that as we grow (mature) spiritually we still live in the fallen (unchanged) flesh that wars against us. Their will be an internal struggle between the spirit and the flesh, it is as we mature that we more readily and easily overcome the flesh. Remember that in this battle as a child of God you are not alone, for He lives in you and will help us to live for Him as we seek "not my will, but Your will be done."
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on
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As LT said, this is just an answer that is based on my own speculation about why God chose to create mankind knowing we'd choose to disobey.
I feel so stuck, too, and feel like I make two steps forward, three backward, and keep losing more ground than I gain.
I've learned that if we can't learn to say no, we never really are able to say yes. (I'm working to overcome people pleasing). Many people complain about how the first word their infant learned to say was No! It's viewed mostly as a sign of rebellion and the fallen nature. Yet, ironically, we have to learn no in order to understand yes. It's a paradox.
During their early development, as children begin saying no, they are making the statement that I am separate from you and I want something different. For me, this knowledge makes me think about Genesis and creation and the painful question that many people who are hurting from the bad choices that others have made ask -- why did You create people, God, when You knew they would choose to sin?
God gave man and woman the chance to say no to Him and to be separate from Him.
The teaching in developmental psychology goes on to say that when a child can say no, the child is becoming prepared to say yes. Yes means there is an awareness of self and what one wants -- what one wants to say yes to.
Even after the Fall of Man, God continued revealing Himself to mankind and keeping them aware of who God is, calling to them to now say yes to Him.
The teaching is called individuation in psychology and is said to be a life long process where the individual continues to learn what we want to say no or yes to. The process is not just about knowing but is about acting, too, in the world according to what we want and do not want.
God wants us to want Him. God wants us to be able to say yes to Him. And since the Fall, God's plan is being fulfilled to bring people back away from that separation from Him and to make them complete in Christ.
The Ministry of Reconciliation is found in 2 Cor 5:11-21. God knew mankind would say no to Him and yet the lamb was slain from the foundation of the world. Saying yes to God is possible and is God's will, for the Fall teaches us that God's way is best and God's will for us is best. God pursues us, wants us, calls us, and enables us to say yes to Him. IMO
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thanks Amanda, lots in here to ponder on.
i also feel like i'm losing ground, taking two steps forward and three steps back.
this morning i'm feeling very discouraged and just yesterday i was feeling like all i want/need is Christ. what a fall from just a few hours ago.
i'm sick of my wickedness. often i'll say something thinking that its the loving/right thing to say, only to later discover that i had a wicked heart in saying it for selfish reasons, to puff myself up thinking i'm wiser than i really am. it feels evil and part of me wants to throw in the towel
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Jenny,
My initial response to the condemnation you mention feeling is that it is condemnation and, therefore, it isn't coming from Holy Spirit. It would, instead, be conviction. Condemnation can come from more than one source, and, of course our spiritual enemies is a huge source, but it can also come from our flesh, which wars against our spirit. It can be difficult to sort out, or discern, if the guilt we are feeling is conviction or condemnation. I discern yours is condemnation due to the hopelessness and frustration and discouragement you feel, i.e., throwing in the towel.
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maybe its a little of both. i know i have to sort out some financial stuff and that might be why i'm having this spiritual discouragement, and maybe the enemy or my flesh is jumping on the chance to suggest my case is hopeless
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Jenny,
God is changing us. It isn't all just passive though. We must abide in Him. We are the workmanship of Christ, but we have liberties, too, and are able to obey and disobey. Yet, we will always belong to Him. That has been settled for eternity. I will share here what I added to another discussion.
Salvation, for me, depends upon Jesus and His work on my behalf. I was saved by grace through faith and I am able to continue in Him only because of faith and grace, too. It is true, as I heard in the sermon at my church this morning, that God requires perfection, and Jesus met the requirement for me, was my Substitute, both in His perfect life and in His death, which satisfied the wrath of God and paid the penalty for my sins. Now, I am holy and righteous but it is His holiness and righteousness that I have. Also, as my minister said, it doesn't mean I can live anyway I want. I am now redeemed, purchased, bought for a price and belong to God. God has all rights and privileges to me. I am not my own. I am totally dependent upon God. Even for healing from old sin baggage.
PS Romans 8:1 -- condemnation is a lie. Don't believe the enemy. I know, easier said than done :)
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thanks for this Amanda, its encouraging to have the truth of the gospel right now
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Permalink Reply by Stephen King on
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I think the time was predetermined by God as we read in the book of Daniel 9:24; "Seventy 'weeks' are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophesy and to anoint the most holy." (niv) Also Jesus, in reply to Peter's question as to how many times he was to forgive his brother who sins against him, He said "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times" (Matt 18:22). This is just like 'seventy sevens' decreed for the Church.
So before the things spoken of in Daniel are completed, time has to elapse and quite slowly. What matters is that we are in the hands of God who is transforming us. What is expected of us is only faith and patience for without these we will never change.
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