When Lucifer and one-third of the angels rebelled in heaven

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Permalink Reply by Carla on December 2, 2010 at 8:27pm

Hi Mischelle,

i think this may be one of those unanswerable questions. We can make a hypothesis...here are some thoughts...

Part of God's plan is to allow sin and free choice. All that God does is perfect, His ways are perfect. We can rest in His Sovereignty knowing that HE is perfect. (psalm 18:30)

Isaiah 55:8,9 reminds us that God's thoughts and ways are not ours.

The fact is, sin would be in the world at that point anyway because of Adam and Eve's rebellion even if satan was already destroyed...humanity had been corrupted already by this time. God had already planned to send Jesus to die for us. Remember also...that God does not live in time as we do. God is Eternal!

This plan of God's will display His Glory in a far more magnificient way---Many hearts will turn to the Lord and lives will be transformed-- Regeneration is an awesome testimony of God's Character--His all encompassing Character.

Living this out for us is a training..we are learning in all of us, just as many many people who have gone before us have learned.

Rom 5:3 And not only this, but [fn] we also exult in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance;
Rom 5:4 and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope;

So--your question--Why did God not kill them then?
I don't know--perhaps it was so that HE could carry out His plan for Salvation. Time for God is irrelevant. When we are in Christ the demons have no authority over us. As a believer, you no longer have to submit to the demonic tauntings. We are free 'In Christ'. satan's time will come. Jesus will reign as KING of Kings and LORD of Lords.

...just some thoughts.. good question......made my brain ache. :-)
Blessings, Carla

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Permalink Reply by Rita Cullimore on December 3, 2010 at 5:54am

I think that God's Plan is as perfect as it can be. He has given everyone, including angels, the right to chose where they want to be.

Had the tree of knowledge of good and evil not been in the garden, if Eve hadn't had to chose to obey or disobey, the universe would be perfect but, God would not have given us our choice as to who we would serve.

God has given us everything we need to fight Satan as he attacks us. His attacks on us are because we are not his children but are children of the Most High God. We have every weapon to keep Satan in his place. Our job is to use them.

If we don't study God's Word and we don't know what His instructions are, we will have a much harder time of it. As we read, God gives us peace with this world and all that are in it. Belief in His Word is the best weapon that we can use to keep Satan where he needs to be and keep his attacks to a minimum.

As far as torment goes, we give Satan the foothold when we don't study and pray.

Blessings to you,
Rita

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Permalink Reply by Sarah Gardener on December 3, 2010 at 12:58pm

Dear Mischelle,

One little word, "reserved" or "kept" for judgment just as they were to "keep" their place in heaven but did not they are then "kept" for.......... Much like someone who is senteneced to death but is held in prison until that day.

2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

It is interesting to read the commentaries on these scriptures:

JBF on 2 Pe 2:4:

2Pe 2:4
if — The apodosis or consequent member of the sentence is not expressed, but is virtually contained in 2Pe_2:9. If God in past time has punished the ungodly and saved His people, He will be sure to do so also in our days (compare end of 2Pe_2:3).
angels — the highest of intelligent creatures (compare with this verse, Jud_1:6), yet not spared when they sinned.
hell — Greek, “Tartarus”: nowhere else in New Testament or the Septuagint: equivalent to the usual Greek, “Gehenna.” Not inconsistent with 1Pe_5:8; for though their final doom is hell, yet for a time they are permitted to roam beyond it in “the darkness of this world.” Slaves of Tartarus (called “the abyss,” or “deep,” Luk_8:31; “the bottomless pit,” Rev_9:11) may also come upon earth. Step by step they are given to Tartarus, until at last they shall be wholly bound to it.
delivered — as the judge delivers the condemned prisoner to the officers (Rev_20:2).
into chains — (Jud_1:6). The oldest manuscripts read, “dens,” as Alford translates: the Greek, however, may, in Hellenistic Greek, mean “chains,” as Jude expresses it. They are “reserved” unto hell’s “mist of darkness” as their final “judgment” or doom, and meanwhile their exclusion from the light of heaven is begun. So the ungodly were considered as virtually “in prison,” though at large on the earth, from the moment that God’s sentence went forth, though not executed till one hundred twenty years after.

JBF on Jud 1:6:

Jud 1:6
(2Pe_2:4.)
kept not their first estate — Vulgate translates, “their own principality,” which the fact of angels being elsewhere called “principalities,” favors: “their own” implies that, instead of being content with the dignity once for all assigned to them under the Son of God, they aspired higher. Alford thinks the narrative in Gen_6:2 is alluded to, not the fall of the devil and his angels, as he thinks “giving themselves over to fornication” (Jud_1:7) proves; compare Greek, “in like manner to these,” namely, to the angels (Jud_1:6). It seems to me more natural to take “sons of God” (Gen_6:2) of the Sethites, than of angels, who, as “spirits,” do not seem capable of carnal connection. The parallel, 2Pe_2:4, plainly refers to the fall of the apostate angels. And “in like manner to these,” Jud_1:7, refers to the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah, “the cities about them” sinning “in like manner” as “they” did [Estius and Calvin]. Even if Greek “these,” Jud_1:7, refer to the angels, the sense of “in like manner as these” will be, not that the angels carnally fornicated with the daughters of men, but that their ambition, whereby their affections went away from God and they fell, is in God’s view a sin of like kind spiritually as Sodom’s going away from God’s order of nature after strange flesh; the sin of the apostate angels after their kind is analogous to that of the human Sodomites after their kind. Compare the somewhat similar spiritual connection of whoremongers and covetousness. The apocryphal book of Enoch interprets Gen_6:2 as Alford. But though Jude accords with it in some particulars, it does not follow that he accords with it in all. The Hebrews name the fallen angels Aza and Azael.
left — on their own accord.
their own — Greek, “their proper.”
habitation — heaven, all bright and glorious, as opposed to the “darkness” to which they now are doomed. Their ambitious designs seem to have had a peculiar connection with this earth, of which Satan before his fall may have been God’s vicegerent, whence arises his subsequent connection with it as first the Tempter, then “the prince of this world.”
reserved — As the Greek is the same, and there is an evident reference to their having “kept not their first estate,” translate, “He hath kept.” Probably what is meant is, He hath kept them in His purpose; that is their sure doom; moreover, as yet, Satan and his demons roam at large on the earth. An earnest of their doom is their having been cast out of heaven, being already restricted to “the darkness of this present world,” the “air” that surrounds the earth, their peculiar element now. They lurk in places of gloom and death, looking forward with agonizing fear to their final torment in the bottomless pit. He means not literal chains and darkness, but figurative in this present world where, with restricted powers and liberties, shut out from heaven, they, like condemned prisoners, await their doom.

God is just and His plans and purposes perfect - every last detail just as if you look at a flower and see the intricacy in it as I love to for it is my God who creates every little detail:

I calls these "natures trumpets". I even have photos of flowers with ants way down in the throats of the flower delighting in the goodness of His creation no doubt. One of my favourite passtimes. Creation declares His glory.

Anyway back to earth! Ahhh I love the Lord!

That was the first word that came to me when I read your question Mischelle - they are reserved/kept for judgment.

Luvs
Linda Ruth

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Permalink Reply by Sarah Gardener on December 3, 2010 at 2:25pm

I found this link interesting:

http://www.amazingfacts.org/Radio/BibleAnswersLiveQuestionArchive/t...

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Permalink Reply by Michael Vernon McEntire on December 3, 2010 at 2:53pm

The presumption that something like one-third of all the spirit beings that the LORD created were somehow caught up in some kind of rebellion against GOD, led by a dominant angel named Lucifer, is based on two obscure passages that may not even be related. I like Linda Ruth's suggestion to get "back to earth", or at least the heaven and earth that we can see, and that speak of the glory of GOD. Even if you believe those mythologies about thousands or millions of fallen angels buzzing around trying to mess with humans by practicing some kind of thought-insertion, let's not give them any glory by ascribing "powers" to them. Let's rather glorify the LORD by ascribing to HIM all power in heaven and in earth, under whose Sovereignty there is not one rogue mollecule in the universe!

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Permalink Reply by Sarah Gardener on December 4, 2010 at 2:39pm

Mischelle,

I am not sure why you cannot access the link as I can but here is the text from the site:

Q. Are Lucifer's angels in chains? I always believed they were loosed on earth to do their evil bidding.

This question comes from Jude 6, which says, "And the angels kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day." I believe this means that even here on earth, the angels are in bondage because they are restricted to this planet.

Remember when the demons possessed the man by the Sea of Galilee? They said, "Jesus, have you come to torment us before the time?" It says they're reserved for judgment--they know that they are chained to this world by circumstances waiting for their judgment. And the only thing they can do for their "prison recreation" is to tempt and torment people to try and take humans with them. That's why they plead, "If you're going to cast us out of the man, at least let us possess the pigs."

So for practical purposes, Satan and his angels are restricted to this planet. And compared to the glory of God's presence where they used to live, can you imagine how dark this world is? When it speaks of chains of darkness, it's making a contrast from their first estate, which is the presence of God and the brilliant glory brighter than the sun.

It's not literal chains or darkness, because you can't really chain an angel. They are spiritual beings, not flesh and blood like humans. It's figurative language, but they are bound and restricted to this planet in a sense.


The audio requires Windows Media Player in order to play....

It didn't really answer your question as to why God didn't just destroyed them straight way but it did talk about them being reserved as I spoke about and I found the part about the chains interesting.

Anyway I am sorry you could not access it - just one of those things.

Blessings
Linda Ruth

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Permalink Reply by Rita Cullimore on December 4, 2010 at 8:23am

I don't think I would call the fall of angels a myth. Revelation 12: 4 His tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth.
The Holy Bible : English Standard Version. Wheaton : Standard Bible Society, 2001, S. Re 12:4

Everything in the Bible is there for a purpose including this verse.
The Bible tells us that Satan doesn't have the powers that God does, but this lets us know that he has plenty of helpers. He will do everything in his power to try to cause us grief, but we have a Savior in Christ the Lord, Who is willing to fight for us...if...we will ask for his help.

We need to try to understand every word of the Bible. Nothing should be deleted, unread, or be referred to as unimportant. When one tries to do this, much of the instructions God gave us will be misunderstood.

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