All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
When I Am Down
When you feel down, beat-up or overwhelmed, what does God use to pick you up and get you through?
Lord Bless,
LT
TheNET Coordinator
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Amanda,
You said:
Justification is what God does for us. Nothing I can do will justify me.
Sanctification is what we must do. It is still God working in the believer to produce godly character in the person who has already been justified Phil 2:13. It never happens instantly (but some think it does) but it doesn’t because it is not the work of God alone. We have choices and liberties. EQThe second part as described by you is putting all on you and no one can do it without God's empowerment to live for Him. This is not accomplished by trying harder, but by surrendering to Him and then being filled and empowered by the Holy Spirit. This filling does not come with salvation, but through sanctification. That is the biggest difference. Many live a futile Christian life ever trapped in repetative sin, whereas God wants to draw us out of those sins inwhich we have been enslaved to. Sanctification does not mean we will never sin again, but the power of sin is broken and our surrender to Him daily ensures that we are walking in a manner that pleases Him according to His plan and purpose for our lives (Rom. 6-8). Not my will, but Your will be done.
To some the above will appear as semantics, but is not. There is a huge difference between self-will, I'll try harder, and surrendering to God day-by-day, moment-by moment.
One of the main keys to the Christian life is surrender, not trying harder. Through surrender comes the empowerment that leads to a godly life as He lives through us. Surrender in a moment in time (crisis) opens the door to a life lived out (progression).
The second link will clarify more regarding this when you you geet to it.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Amanda,
There is a difference between the indwelling and the filling of the Holy Spirit.
With that I will let it go.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Amanda,
I have only tried to help you from the beginning. I have not judged you, nor am I debating you. You have asked me questions and I have sought to answer them as I see them. Not everyone will agree with me, and I am OK with that on secondary issues. You have the freedom to agree or disagree with me as well.
I will only answer questions based on my convictions and understnding.
You said "It isn't worth my effort tonight" and "maybe get back to you." Maybe you meant these comments different than I took them, but it comes across pretty.
I will continue to seek to help you if you desire.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Amanda,
LT, after reading Jesus as our Saviour, I do have the assurance and peace that I am truly saved tonight. Thank you for this. That is a big thing for me.
Praise the Lord!!!
“Many Christians are converted and stop there. They do not
go on to the fullness of their life in Christ, and so are in danger of losing what
they already possess.”
Is it saying being born again is not enough?
If so, then knowing Jesus as your Saviour can be lost--losing salvation.
The following is part of the section you pulled the above out of that completes the thought: “You will find that the men and women who do not press on in their Christian experience to gain the fullness of their inheritance in Him, will often become cold and formal. The evil in their own heart will assert itself again and will be very likely to overcome them, and their work will bring confusion and disaster to the cause of Christ. If they escape the result, it will be as by fire.”
Quote”Sanctification is not your own work; it is not a gradual attainment which you can grow into by your own efforts. If you should be able to build such a structure yourself, and add to it year after year until it was completed, would you not then stand off with a pardonable pride and look upon it as your own work? No, dear friends, you cannot grow into sanctification. You will grow after you are in it into a fuller, riper and more mature development of life in Christ, but you must take it at its commencement as a gift, not as a growth. It is an obtainment, not an attainment. You cannot sanctify yourselves. The only thing to do is to give yourself wholly to God, a voluntary sacrifice. This is intensely important. It is but a light thing to do for Him. But He must do the work of cleansing and filling.”end quote
This is all semantics. We give ourselves to Him when we are born again. His spirit indwells the temple of our bodies, seals us unto the day of redemption. That is God’s work. Then we grow because His indwelling Spirit sanctifies us. The Holy Spirit is a gift--I do not argue with that at all.You receive Him as Savior and are born-again. You receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, but not the filling of the Holy Spirit. Ephesians 5:18 is clear that we are to be filled with the Holy Spirit and the Greek word for “fill” means continually being in this case filled.
Lord Bless,
LT
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He comes as a seal, marks us and lives within us. These are all signs of salvation. As we surrender He empowers us by filling us and working through us. This is sanctification.
Look in Acts 8 again:
AC 8:14 When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. 15 When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
These people had accepted the Word of God and been baptised, but not filled with the Holy Spirit.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Amanda,
“It is separation from sin.” When we are born again, He removes our sins from us as far as the east is from the west and gives us the gift of His Spirit and empowers us to live for Him.
We disagree. We are forgiven of our sins and then sanctification is the turning from sin and turning towards God as He empowers us to live a life that is pleasing to Him. The sanctified life is the empowered life.
“Sanctification means also dedication to God.”
I agree, When I accepted Christ, I was dedicated to Him. But just as you can choose to be dedicated, you can choose to be a prodigal, too.
Because you are sanctified, do you think you are above rebellion or giving into temptation that will lead to rebellion?
One can squelch the Spirit of God’s work in their life when they cease to surrender and assert self-will.Lord Bless,
LT -
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Amanda,
I said: We are forgiven of our sins and then sanctification is the turning from sin and turning towards God as He empowers us to live a life that is pleasing to Him. The sanctified life is the empowered life.
You said: Same thing as repentance--a turning away from sin and toward God. New birth
Actually that is an incomplete definition of repentance. The true meaning of repentance is a change of mind. What is sin is now revealed as sin once repentance is brought about by the work of the Holy Spirit. The hearts desire is to turn from sin and to God, but there is still lacking the empowerment to accomplish the task, and thus a frustrated Christian life of repetative failures.
Lord Bless,
LT -
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Amanda,
Quote”Sanctification should be entered into intelligently when
the mind is clear. It is a deliberate act calling for the calm exercise of all the
faculties working under the controlling influence of the Divine Spirit. Sanctification is not self-perfection. We shall never become. so inherently good
that there will be no possibility or temptation to sin.” end quote
It says it is a deliberate act--again something we do and not God alone.
The act of surrender, not working harder to attain or achieve.
Quote”The reason the exalted spirits in heaven fell from their high estate
was, perhaps, because they became conscious of their own beauty, and pride arose in their hearts. They looked at themselves, and became as gods unto themselves.”
Conjecture. Speculation. We know they had pride but we don’t know why.
He stated perhaps.
Quote”We must be simple, empty vessels,
open channels for His life to flow through. Then Christ's perfection will be made
over to us. And we shall grow ever less and less in ourselves, as He becomes
more and more within us.” end quote
Yes, I agree and believe this wholeheartedly--always have. I have seen myself in the past as an empty vessel which He flows through and works. I have seen less and less of me and more and more of Him.
That is surrender.
But then it says you can’t be unhappy. I disagree. There are times when even Jesus was unhappy, when He wept, when he had sorrow, Even the Father was pained in His heart when He saw how evil mankind had become, wasn’t He?Happiness and unhappiness are emotions that come and go. The believer will experience the joy and peace of the Lord in the middle of the storm.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Amanda,
The believer will experience the joy and peace of the Lord in the middle of the storm.
And if the believer doesn't, what does that mean? Not sanctified?
Joy and peace of the Lord does not mean absence of conflict, but an assurance regarding one’s standing with God and the fact the He is able to perform what He has promised. If one continues in long term doubt they would need to do some soul searching for one of two things. Am I saved or what sin may be driving a wedge between my relationship. There can be other causes, but these are the two most common.
You are saying Jesus sanctifies us at once, and I am saying I am being sanctified as a lifelong process.
Actually, no. It is a two part process. One enters into the sanctified life through he crisis experience and then the rest of their life is a progression as God works and will through them as they continue to walk in surrender to Him.
That means I can "squelch" the Spirit, and I called it "quenching" the Spirit in my initial post about sanctification. But I believed the quenching meant He left me, because I believed salvation could be lost and we could grieve the Spirit and not to be in the sanctification process anymore meant I could lose the justification too.
Squelch the Spirit and He goes will cease to operate in power through you until you come back into alignment with Him. You can stall the work, but will experience conviction and/or divine discipline. He does not ever leave you or forsake you in the New Covenant.
Lord Bless,
LT -
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Amanda,
People do look for sanctification apart from what we have as born again believers. People look for it in New Age religions, in lots of ways that are paths of self-discipline but have nothing to do with God, Jesus, or the Spirit. The Course in Miracles is one path. Another path is aligning the personality with the soul and becoming one with the universe--karma.
Yes, and Satan is a masterful counterfeiter.
Quote”God does come to dwell in the heart and live His holy life within us. In the 36th of Ezekiel we have this promise: "I will sprinkle clean water upon you." That is forgiveness; old sins are all blotted out. "A new heart also will I give you"; that is regeneration. "I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and ye shall keep My judgments and do them"; ah! that
is something more than regeneration and forgiveness. It is the living God come to live in the new heart.”end quote
I call all of this the new birth. The Covenant.
And we call it salvation followed by sanctification.
You and I have a different perception but see the same picture basically.People disagree on this topic greatly. Some see it as one package and others see it as two separate works of grace that are caused by God. Thus the difference is that one views it as automatic and the other as something we receive when we surrender, are sanctified and filled with the Holy Spirit.
If it is automatic, I ask, then why do we see so many Christians still trapped in the same old sins that they were caught in before salvation? What is missing? Part of the answer is self-will vs. surrender.
Lord Bless,
LT
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